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Here's How Much Faster M4 Pro/Max Are for Graphics vs. M3 Pro/Max

Just moved from a 2015 vintage MacBook to a 16 MBP with M1 Max and 32/1TB

For $1500 I have no complaints.

The M4 release in 2024 makes it conceivable that I’ll be able to get an M4 Max MBP with equivalent rank specs in a few years for the same relative price.

What a time to be alive. Please take my advice everyone!! Go buy the M4 MBP.. it’s amazing especially the MAX.

Then I can have another massive second hand market to choose from again in 2027.
Days
Go consumers go!!! ❤️

Cue excited, shouting crowd leaving stage left, waving Apple Pay cards…..
 
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ThatGuyInLa said:
Does the CPU or GPU affect the Media Engine? Are there any benchmarks on the differences comparing that amongst the models? FCPx I guess.
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No benchmarks yet. But the video engines in M1 M2 M3 were the same speed. They expanded to 8K ect but didn’t actually get much faster.

The M4 video engine is twice as fast Apple said during the iPad launch. And the M4 Max has 2 engines.

So regular M4 is as fast as a previous M1 M2 M3 Max chip.

M4 Max is twice as fast as M1 M2 M3 Max chip.

M2 Ultra is still faster for encoding as that has 4 engines.

Note: I’m specifically talking about exporting hardware accelerated codecs in Final Cut. You really need to know what your software and codecs need.

This doesn’t mean regular timeline editing is faster and premiere and resolve are a different story
 
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terminator-jq said:
...

Of course the biggest advantage to the M4 generation will be AI abilities (which Apple is still playing catch up) so for users who don’t care about AI, M3 Max might still be a great option.
Click to expand...

It's important to remember that AI capabilities extend far beyond just user-facing features, such as Writing Tools. Instead of having "rigid" routines in software, apps can utilize machine learning (ML) to transform input into output.

As more apps move to an ML-centric design, the hardware can now accommodate that.

Not all AI workloads fit into the generative stuff that stormed the world.
 
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CBlakeston said:
No benchmarks yet. But the video engines in M1 M2 M3 were the same speed. They expanded to 8K ect but didn’t actually get much faster.

The M4 video engine is twice as fast Apple said during the iPad launch. And the M4 Max has 2 engines.

So regular M4 is as fast as a previous M1 M2 M3 Max chip.

M4 Max is twice as fast as M1 M2 M3 Max chip.

M2 Ultra is still faster for encoding as that has 4 engines.

Note: I’m specifically talking about exporting hardware accelerated codecs in Final Cut. You really need to know what your software and codecs need.

This doesn’t mean regular timeline editing is faster and premiere and resolve are a different story
Click to expand...
Can you please share where Apple says the M4 media engines are twice as fast as before? I rewatched the MBP announcement and they didn't mention this at all. We know Max chips have twice the media engines, but I don't see anywhere that says M4-series media engines are each twice as fast as before. I couldn't find any mention of it in the M4 iPad Pro announcements either.

Are you sure you don't have it confused with the faster neural engines in M4?

1730502026503.png
 
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NeonNights said:
Can you please share where Apple says the M4 media engines are twice as fast as before? I rewatched the MBP announcement and they didn't mention this at all. We know Max chips have twice the media engines, but I don't see anywhere that says M4-series media engines are each twice as fast as before. I couldn't find any mention of it in the M4 iPad Pro announcements either.

Are you sure you don't have it confused with the faster neural engines in M4?

View attachment 2445561
Click to expand...
Didn't they talk about the media engines with the iPad Pro?
 
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EugW said:
Didn't they talk about the media engines with the iPad Pro?
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My Google skills must be weak today. Still not finding any mention of it. I'm sure 2x media engine performance increase would be all over the marketing materials. I'm not finding it though. Closest I can find on the iPad Pro announcement video is new Display engine, which isn't the same as media engine.

1730504159428.png
 
NeonNights said:
Yea, M4 doesn't have 2x faster media engines. Just pulled up an old MaxTech video comparison and M4 iPad Pro is about 13% faster on the Final Cut export over M2 iPad Pro.

View attachment 2445574
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Hmm... It sounds like they were mainly just talking about the addition of hardware AV1 decode support. (AV1 decode is also in M3, but neither the iPad nor the Mac mini had M3.)

"A new advanced Media Engine includes support for AV1 decode, providing more power-efficient playback of high-resolution video experiences from streaming services."

www.apple.com

Apple unveils stunning new iPad Pro with M4 chip and Apple Pencil Pro

The groundbreaking new iPad Pro features a stunningly thin and light design, taking portability and performance to the next level.
www.apple.com
 
NeonNights said:
I expect CPU/GPU does matter during the rendering or creation of proxy files and actual editing process, but a big no for the end export. Based on ArtIsRight comparisons, the export time is basically the same across M1 through M3 Pro chips regardless of RAM/SSD because they all have the same video encoder/decoder. Only the Max and Ultra chips show an appreciable decrease in export time because of the extra encoder/decoder engines.

View attachment 2445407
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Missed this, so is the M4M any different than the M3M in terms of encoder/decoder engines?
 
NeonNights said:
Can you please share where Apple says the M4 media engines are twice as fast as before? I rewatched the MBP announcement and they didn't mention this at all. We know Max chips have twice the media engines, but I don't see anywhere that says M4-series media engines are each twice as fast as before. I couldn't find any mention of it in the M4 iPad Pro announcements either.

Are you sure you don't have it confused with the faster neural engines in M4?

View attachment 2445561
Click to expand...
I’m going on memory, but what I remember Apple saying is that the M4 Max has two media engines, not that it’s twice as fast. That means it can divide the workload between both media engines. I suppose that could conceivably end up being twice as fast, but the software would have to be super optimized to do that. Rather, I took the implication to be that you could encode or decode two things at once.
 
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GuthrieAZ said:
Very tempted by these new MBPs but then I realize that over the past three years I have had my M1 Max MBP I can't recall a single time where I felt it's processing power was slowing down my workflow. I'm an architect who mostly uses AutoCAD and Sketchup but even with the most complex 3D model I work with I've never noticed any lag on orbiting it. Maybe I'll start using on device AI more and notice some difference but unless a new computer can gain me a few minutes of productivity every day it's not worth the expense.

The build quality on these MBPs is also superb, mine still looks and functions like brand new. Before my M1 Max MBP I used PC laptops and even so called "professional grade" ones like the Lenovo ThinkPad needing replacing about every two years just due to poor build quality.
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I agree. I'm still using a 2017 MBP as my daily driver and use Fusion 360 a lot. It does struggle a bit sometimes but still looks like new with good battery life (granted it was replaced a few years ago) and goes most places with me. Might be time for an M4 but in the real world do I actually need it?
 
MacRumors said:


Apple's new M4 Pro and M4 Max chips are impressively fast in terms of CPU performance, topping the M2 Ultra, but what about graphics performance?

M3-Pro-Max-vs-M4-Pro-Max-Feature.jpg

The first Geekbench 6 results for GPU performance are now available for the M4 Pro and M4 Max, and the Metal scores reveal some impressive year-over-year gains. Based on the Metal scores that are available so far, the M4 Pro and M4 Max are up to around 40% and 25% faster for graphics than the M3 Pro and M3 Max chips, respectively.

The new 16-inch MacBook Pro with the highest-end M4 Max with a 40-core GPU has up to 85% as fast graphics as the Mac Studio with the highest-end M2 Ultra chip with a 76-core GPU, despite having 36 fewer GPU cores, according to the results.

Here is a comparison of the average Metal scores:


Article Link: Here's How Much Faster M4 Pro/Max Are for Graphics vs. M3 Pro/Max
Click to expand...
Impressive but expected M4 Max to have more RAM than M3 Max - is there a reason the RAM did not scale as before and what does this imply for M4 Ultra in terms of RAM?
 
GuthrieAZ said:
Very tempted by these new MBPs but then I realize that over the past three years I have had my M1 Max MBP I can't recall a single time where I felt it's processing power was slowing down my workflow. I'm an architect who mostly uses AutoCAD and Sketchup but even with the most complex 3D model I work with I've never noticed any lag on orbiting it. Maybe I'll start using on device AI more and notice some difference but unless a new computer can gain me a few minutes of productivity every day it's not worth the expense.

The build quality on these MBPs is also superb, mine still looks and functions like brand new. Before my M1 Max MBP I used PC laptops and even so called "professional grade" ones like the Lenovo ThinkPad needing replacing about every two years just due to poor build quality.
Click to expand...
This is going to go down as a great era for MacBook Pros. Reminds me of the 2013-2015 era. When the OLED MacBook pros with a focus on thinness come in 2026, I predict stunningly gorgeous new designs that have odd trade-offs and bad battery life and thermals, just like always
 
EugW said:
M4 Ultra is gonna be an absolute monster.

I'll be overjoyed with "just" M4 though, as someone who does not have heavy GPU needs.
Click to expand...

Based on the per-core jump the M4 Pro/Max has made, I expect the Ultra to have the fastest GPU in the market...for Macs. Here I applied a 25% per-core bump, multiplied by the 80 cores expected for the Ultra:
1730529793088.png


Metal scores for the fastest Mac GPUs on the market, per Geekbench:
1730529805490.png
 
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Good to see the numbers. Good improvements compared to the previous generation.
 
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So 442,000ish for M4 Ultra? Niiiiice.

And if they actually do a chip beyond Ultra for Mac Pro, niiiiicer.

If they could do 2 Ultras, that would be pretty darn incredible. Would we be looking at closer to 512GB RAM since it looks like Ultra will be 256GB?
 
I think this AI journey is going to be an interesting one for Apple products. It looks like 16GB will be the new 8GB - we will all regard these 16GB devices as being the bare minimum 6 months from now. This is why I opted for a 24GB M4 Mac mini Pro. However, it got me thinking - Apple is now on the path to try to impress its user base with AI which will probably take increasing amounts of RAM every year. Will 24GB be the new 8GB in a couple years? Then 32GB and so on as the AI models get more complex and larger? Wondering if my 24GB M4 Mac mini will last me until the M8? It's apparent that RAM requirements are going to outpace CPU requirements in the next decade. Will increasing RAM levels obsolete this M4 by M6 time? Hmmmm....It's almost as if they need an upgradeable and dedicated AI memory module just for the AI features. Patent! ;)
 
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macmac30 said:
I think this AI journey is going to be an interesting one for Apple products. It looks like 16GB will be the new 8GB - we will all regard these 16GB devices as being the bare minimum 6 months from now. This is why I opted for a 24GB M4 Mac mini Pro. However, it got me thinking - Apple is now on the path to try to impress its user base with AI which will probably take increasing amounts of RAM every year. Will 24GB be the new 8GB in a couple years? Then 32GB and so on as the AI models get more complex and larger? Wondering if my 24GB M4 Mac mini will last me until the M8? It's apparent that RAM requirements are going to outpace CPU requirements in the next decade. Will increasing RAM levels obsolete this M4 by M6 time? Hmmmm....It's almost as if they need an upgradeable and dedicated AI memory module just for the AI features. Patent! ;)
Click to expand...
Just my prediction, but I think 24GB will last you until the M8, unless you start doing local ML training or something. For using AI, I think you'll be set. I think the small purpose-built models will stay relatively small, they'll grow sure, but more slowly, and for really intensive AI tasks, there's always the cloud.
 
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macmac30 said:
I think this AI journey is going to be an interesting one for Apple products. It looks like 16GB will be the new 8GB - we will all regard these 16GB devices as being the bare minimum 6 months from now. This is why I opted for a 24GB M4 Mac mini Pro. However, it got me thinking - Apple is now on the path to try to impress its user base with AI which will probably take increasing amounts of RAM every year. Will 24GB be the new 8GB in a couple years? Then 32GB and so on as the AI models get more complex and larger? Wondering if my 24GB M4 Mac mini will last me until the M8? It's apparent that RAM requirements are going to outpace CPU requirements in the next decade. Will increasing RAM levels obsolete this M4 by M6 time? Hmmmm....It's almost as if they need an upgradeable and dedicated AI memory module just for the AI features. Patent! ;)
Click to expand...
A concern of mine is that Apple tends to deprecate by generation of machine rather than by specs. Meaning, I see them trying to deprecate the m1 generation at the same time rather than only some models based on the amount of ram. Hopefully I’m wrong - I have a M1 Max with 64GB ram.
 
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