HFS/APFS+Windows vs NTFS+macOS

[ian87w]

Since now I am starting to get comfortable with macOS, I'm starting to think about compatibility of filesystems, mainly for external drives.

For adding HFS+/APFS support for Windows, I'm looking at MacDrive, which is $50. There's Paragon, but they sell HFS+ and APFS support separately.

For adding NTFS support for macOS, I'm seeing Tuxera. There's Paragon as well, but Tuxera seems more affordable.

The bright side, I think I just need to pick one. Either I add NTFS support to my mac, or I add HFS/APFS support on my Windows machine. If I do the former, then I will format my external drives using NTFS. If I opt for the later, then I'll format my external drives using HFS+/APFS. Economics wise, Tuxera seems to be the most affordable. However, if I opted for adding HFS/APFS on Windows, then I can format my external drives just using HFS/APFS and they will be compatible with iOS devices as well. Android is very flexible as there are apps on the Play Store supporting both formats (Another plus for Android).

I'm currently downloading the trials of MacDrive to try on my Windows machine, and Tuxera to try on my mac mini.

Which way do you guys think I should go? And how are your experience with each apps? I think a Tuxera guy is in the forum, so maybe can chime in.

 

[chabig]

If you want to have a drive that can move back and forth between your Mac machine(s) and your Windows machines, I think the easiest way is to just format it using ExFAT and be done with it. Both operating systems support that format natively. HFS+ is well understood and I would expect solid support on Windows from utility vendors, but I don't think Apple has fully documented APFS yet so I wouldn't count on a Windows machine not to screw up your APFS drive. Similarly, there is no real reason to add full NTFS support to your Mac if it can use ExFAT.

 

[ian87w]

If you want to have a drive that can move back and forth between your Mac machine(s) and your Windows machines, I think the easiest way is to just format it using ExFAT and be done with it. Both operating systems support that format natively. HFS+ is well understood and I would expect solid support on Windows from utility vendors, but I don't think Apple has fully documented APFS yet so I wouldn't count on a Windows machine not to screw up your APFS drive. Similarly, there is no real reason to add full NTFS support to your Mac if it can use ExFAT.

exFAT has a lot of its own issues, eg lack of journaling.

Yeah, looks like APFS is still beta for macDrive and just read-only. HFS+ seems to be the better choice.

For small files, I would just use OneDrive. But I am considering this for potential large/many files movements.

 

[Shirasaki]

I lost dozens of my recordings saved in exFAT SSD four years ago. Thankfully no big deal because of backup. But I never trust exFAT on anything again.

I use paragon for all the support. They are a bit pricey but one stop for everything which is nice for license management and migration. I go both ways: some formatted in NTFS and some HFS. No desire for APFS unless I absolutely have to. And no. iOS external drive support is still a joke and I won’t count on that.

 

[IceStormNG]

I personally use NTFS for almost everything except the macOS system disk. Paragon NTFS driver works incredibly well.

And NTFS, despite being "old", is still a very robust and capable FS. And if something breaks, it's well known and there are tons of tools to help you.
Apple's FileSystems, especially APFS, are more like a black box. Fine if they work, but if not... good luck.

I have yet to see a drawback of using NTFS for all my external HDDs and SSDs.

 

[jonebarker]

Today I took a leap with with the Paragon bundle...hidden on their site is a way to get the bundle for the price of one. I did have an old HFS+ for Windows license and it gave me a sweet discount.

Pros: Super easy to install on Win10 Pro and "worked" right away (I rebooted even though it did not prompt me). The interface is simple.

Cons: Its slow! connected an external APFS SSD via USB-C (USB 3.1 header on my Motherboard)and attempted to transfer ~30GB to an internal NTFS SSD.. It took almost 10 minutes (Should have been no more than 2 minutes). I need to copy over 1TB, so the speed it very important. I also noticed some hanging with Windows Explorer, I'm running a very beefy computer spec, so I don't feel good about the performance. I will try to mount the drive internally (direct SATA6) and set as read-only to see if performance improves. I should have known this could happen as none of the companies with similar function boast anything about SPEED.

I used MacDrive back in the day 2005-2007, but if someone can chime in on recent APFS performance, I'm VERY INTERESTED.

 

[jonebarker]

Update: I tried mounting directly to SATA port...it was recognized, but did not mount.

I did make some PROGRESS by setting the disk to READ-ONLY restarting Paragon services. Before this, my transfer speed averaged 40MB/S. Now it averages 190MB/s. Source and destination drive are Samsung QVO 4TB SATA SSDs. There are still times when I see the rate dip to 70MB/s towards the end of the transfer, but it seems removing write permissions makes the performance a lot less painful.

 

[IceStormNG]

This is more or less normal. The QVO dips below 80MB/a when it runs out of cache. QLC NAND simply is that slow.

 

[jonebarker]

This is more or less normal. The QVO dips below 80MB/a when it runs out of cache. QLC NAND simply is that slow.

I never experienced this between QVO on Mac and I move a lot of 4k and 8k footage around Is this a Windows specific limitation? This week was my comeback to Windows after 10+ years.

 

[IceStormNG]

Windows disables write cache for external disks. macOS not. That’s why you have to eject them on macOS while you can just pull the plug on windows.

 

[ian87w]

I personally use NTFS for almost everything except the macOS system disk. Paragon NTFS driver works incredibly well.

And NTFS, despite being "old", is still a very robust and capable FS. And if something breaks, it's well known and there are tons of tools to help you.
Apple's FileSystems, especially APFS, are more like a black box. Fine if they work, but if not... good luck.

I have yet to see a drawback of using NTFS for all my external HDDs and SSDs.

NTFS is indeed a very versatile FS, considering that it is still being used today. The only catch is it is not supported by iOS.

My current matrix of compatibility after trialing some software/apps

	Windows	macOS	iOS	Android
NTFS	Native	3rd party	read only with iOS15	3rd party
HFS+	3rd party	native	native	3rd party
APFS	3rd party but read only (Macdrive)	native	native	x

NTFS is close to the ideal choice, only missing is writability with iOS. Right now, I'm leaning towards HFS+ since both iOS and Android can read/write on it.
I discounted exFAT because of lack of journaling, although that will be supported across the board.

 

[Joeronzk]

NTFS is more recommended. I used exFAT USB in the past. But when the USB drive is switching back from Mac to Windows, my PC keeps asking to scan and repair the drive. This is very annoying!

 

[ian87w]

NTFS is more recommended. I used exFAT USB in the past. But when the USB drive is switching back from Mac to Windows, my PC keeps asking to scan and repair the drive. This is very annoying!

That's the problem with exFAT. It's just not reliable enough compared to journaled file systems.

I'm opting for HFS+, the next best thing. I'm in the process if retiring my main Windows laptop, so no more need for NTFS. Now I just have my Mac mini and Android tablet.

 

[Joeronzk]

That's the problem with exFAT. It's just not reliable enough compared to journaled file systems.

I'm opting for HFS+, the next best thing. I'm in the process if retiring my main Windows laptop, so no more need for NTFS. Now I just have my Mac mini and Android tablet.

HFS+ is more suitable if you are only using Mac.

 

[ian87w]

HFS+ is more suitable if you are only using Mac.

Actually, I now have Android as my “laptop” and a Mac mini as my desktop. So my current in use devices are Android, macOS, and iOS. I’m trying to wean myself off Windows.