+HFS in Mojave...

[JMVB]

Due to displaylink issues, I was forced to upgrade my non retina MBP 13 mid 2012 i7 from High Sierra to Mojave.

When I did the upgrade, the mojave installer change the system from +HFS to APFS.

The boot time drive me crazy, increase to up 1.15 min. Also I noticed so some lack fluency.

So I rolled back to +HFS. Now the boot time is 30 seconds.

Beyond the lost of ability to security updates, What other problem can +HFS cause?


Regards

 

[DeepIn2U]

I'm unsure the answer to your question ... however I'm curious if running drive permissions (Disk Utility > First Aid) would have resolved the boot time issue after the upgrade to Movjave. Furthermore I'm curious if you have FileVault2 enabled prior to the upgrade?

Either way I'd still run First Aid (all application closed other than Disk Utility to run it), then reboot.

 

[Fishrrman]

Mojave will run fine under HFS+, but there's one exception (and it may be important to you):
Software update won't work right any more, if it works at all.

Can you live with that?

 

[JMVB]

I did that...
And I'd run Onyx.
Nothing change.
No FileVault2 enabled

I'm unsure the answer to your question ... however I'm curious if running drive permissions (Disk Utility > First Aid) would have resolved the boot time issue after the upgrade to Movjave. Furthermore I'm curious if you have FileVault2 enabled prior to the upgrade?

Either way I'd still run First Aid (all application closed other than Disk Utility to run it), then reboot.

 

[Macsonic]

Mojave will run fine under HFS+, but there's one exception (and it may be important to you):
Software update won't work right any more, if it works at all.

Can you live with that?

Yep you’re right that security updates stop working with HFS+ I still need the HFS+ as it runs well with mechanical HDs. I also use Disk Warrior that cannot run under APFS. There’s a new Disk Warrior version for APFS but I would have to repurchase the license for $100. On security, I apply security practices on logins. Installed Norton safe web to guard against phishing sites. Installed Norton Anti-virus and anti-malware.

 

[chrfr]

Yep you’re right that security updates stop working with HFS+ I still need the HFS+ as it runs well with mechanical HDs. I also use Disk Warrior that cannot run under APFS. There’s a new Disk Warrior version for APFS but I would have to repurchase the license for $100. On security, I apply security practices on logins. Installed Norton safe web to guard against phishing sites. Installed Norton Anti-virus and anti-malware.

There is no version of DiskWarrior that repairs APFS drives. With that said, I've had no corruption issues that have needed a tool like DiskWarrior for any of my APFS disks. I'd much rather rely on having an up to date operating system than to rely on Norton/Symantec's largely junk software.

 

[Macsonic]

There is no version of DiskWarrior that repairs APFS drives. With that said, I've had no corruption issues that have needed a tool like DiskWarrior for any of my APFS disks. I'd much rather rely on having an up to date operating system than to rely on Norton/Symantec's largely junk software.

Hi. I use Norton Security not only for my Mac but also to Protect the other Mac and Windows users that I work and communicate with. Everyday I receive and send out multiple files, docs, website URLs to or from clients, co-workers, friends or suppliers. It’s prudent to be careful and avoid passing on an infected file or a suspicious URL link.

A client told me he prefers to work with me because I keep an anti-virus, anti-malware app. He feels comfortable when the people show concern to the team and community. My friend who works in a trading company, during the Pandemic lockdown, their setup was converted to home based. The company required all staff to install the company provided anti-virus. It’s an open forum as Mac users here have their own preferences and opinions on which softwares they want or don’t want to use. Thanks

DiskWarrior New Version for APFS

DiskWarrior 5.3 & APFS — ALSOFT

www.alsoft.com

 

[chrfr]

Hi. I use Norton Security not only for my Mac but also to Protect the other Mac and Windows users that I work and communicate with. Everyday I receive and send out multiple files, docs, website URLs to or from clients, co-workers, friends or suppliers. It’s prudent to be careful and avoid passing on an infected file or a suspicious URL link.

A client told me he prefers to work with me because I keep an anti-virus, anti-malware app. He feels comfortable when the people show concern to the team and community. My friend who works in a trading company, during the Pandemic lockdown, their setup was converted to home based. The company required all staff to install the company provided anti-virus. It’s an open forum as Mac users here have their own preferences and opinions on which softwares they want or don’t want to use. Thanks

DiskWarrior New Version for APFS

DiskWarrior 5.3 & APFS — ALSOFT

www.alsoft.com

View attachment 910380

DiskWarrior 5.2 will run on systems that use APFS, but it will not check or repair those drives.
The information below is from https://www.alsoft.com/diskwarrior5apfs

Apple File System (APFS) disks (typically a macOS 10.14 Mojave or 10.15 Catalina Startup Disk) are recognized but ARE NOT able to be rebuilt by DiskWarrior 5.2.

If you're concerned about security, you need to install security updates. Anti-malware software is not so reliable that it can always be trusted if the operating system has known, exposed vulnerabilities.

 

[Macsonic]

DiskWarrior 5.2 will run on systems that use APFS, but it will not check or repair those drives.
The information below is from https://www.alsoft.com/diskwarrior5apfs

If you're concerned about security, you need to install security updates. Anti-malware software is not so reliable that it can always be trusted if the operating system has known, exposed vulnerabilities.

As mentioned before, each Mac user has their method on how they run their Mac, which apps they prefer to use and avoid. This is the arrangement/agreement I have with my client employer on my setup and apps installed. Also with security updates, my sister received the Security Update 18G4032 on her MacBook Pro and after the security update, her Mac had freezing problems. Not all security updates are perfect. Thanks

macOS Security Update Archives - Mr. Macintosh

mrmacintosh.com

 

[Jack Neill]

Yep you’re right that security updates stop working with HFS+ I still need the HFS+ as it runs well with mechanical HDs. I also use Disk Warrior that cannot run under APFS. There’s a new Disk Warrior version for APFS but I would have to repurchase the license for $100. On security, I apply security practices on logins. Installed Norton safe web to guard against phishing sites. Installed Norton Anti-virus and anti-malware.

You can always use CCC to clone and apply the update and clone back. Works well.

 

[Macsonic]

You can always use CCC to clone and apply the update and clone back. Works well.

Hi Jack. ? Thanks for the tip. Yep it’s actually what I’ve been doing. From my Mojave APFS “Master” drive, would apply the software update, then clone this to a separate HFS+ drive. For OS security updates, normally I would temporarily hold it off and browse the Internet for user feedbacks if the update did not caused any problems. Thanks

 

[Riwam]

Due to displaylink issues, I was forced to upgrade my non retina MBP 13 mid 2012 i7 from High Sierra to Mojave.

When I did the upgrade, the mojave installer change the system from +HFS to APFS.

The boot time drive me crazy, increase to up 1.15 min. Also I noticed so some lack fluency.

So I rolled back to +HFS. Now the boot time is 30 seconds.

Beyond the lost of ability to security updates, What other problem can +HFS cause?


Regards

Some time ago I posted in detail In the Macrumors Forum how I upgraded from High Sierra to Mojave and managed to keep HFS+, mainly because I am comfortable with that file system and it allows me -if needed- to rebuild a faulty volume with Disk Warrior in circumstances in which no other application I know is able to repair it and Disk Utility even pretends I have an hardware failure!
To keep HFS+ takes some additional steps but it is perfectly doable.
All updates besides security updates from Apple (for instance Microsoft Office updates) install with no problem.
As to Apple security updates (which anyways are not too often offered) I clone with CCC my HFS+ inner volume to an external one formatted in APFS, apply those security updates and clone back to my inner Mojave drive in HFS+.
As already said, it needs those additional steps but as far as I am concerned I am entirely happy with my HFS+ Mojave 10.14.6 and have no intention at all to move to Catalina, a OS far too complicated IMHO.
I hope that the day in which Catalina might become compulsory to all Apple users is very, very far away in the future.?
Ed

 

[Erhardt]

How can I find your article on how to run Mojave on an hfs + Disk
Thanks in advance
Freddy Brandenburg

 

[Fishrrman]

Erhardt:

One way to do this (see warning below):
1. Use a cloning utility (such as CarbonCopyCloner or SuperDuper) to clone your Mojave installation to a backup drive formatted HFS+ (Mac OS extended with journaling enabled, GUID partition format)
2. Then, BOOT FROM the cloned backup
3. Now, ERASE the internal drive and reformat it to Mac OS extended with journaling enabled, GUID partition format
4. Finally, RE-clone the cloned backup BACK TO the internal drive.

I believe this will give you a BOOTABLE Mojave OS in HFS+.
HOWEVER... WARNING:
Software Update DOES NOT SEEM TO WORK for Mojave when it's running on an HFS+ setup.

This is what I did when I first got my 2018 Mini 18 last year.
It booted from HFS+, but when I found I couldn't update the installation (and at the time there were still updates coming for Mojave), I decided to go back to an APFS format.

However, now that Mojave has pretty much reached the end of its "update cycle", I'm going to -guess- that one could use the "cloning trick" above to run it as HFS+, if desired.

But... remember that you do so at your own risk.

 

[chrfr]

However, now that Mojave has pretty much reached the end of its "update cycle"

Mojave will have another year of Safari and security updates.

 

[Erhardt]

Thank you very much for the quick reply but that's exactly how I did it, but when I clone Mojave APFS onto a formatted Mac OS extended hard drive, CCC reports that there are some files it cannot copy and does not copy anything.

I've done it before with Hight Sierra and it worked, so I do not know exactly what it's going on, but thanks anyway.

Regards Freddy

 

[chrfr]

Thank you very much for the quick reply but that's exactly how I did it, but when I clone Mojave APFS onto a formatted Mac OS extended hard drive, CCC reports that there are some files it cannot copy and does not copy anything.

I've done it before with Hight Sierra and it worked, so I do not know exactly what it's going on, but thanks anyway.

Regards Freddy

Are you trying to clone while running from the disk you're trying to clone, and have you given CCC full disk access in the Security and Privacy system preference?

 

[Erhardt]

I clone from the Mojave APFS disk that I started up on, onto the formatted hfs + disk, and have given ccc permission.

 

[Taz Mangus]

I believe this will give you a BOOTABLE Mojave OS in HFS+.
HOWEVER... WARNING:
Software Update DOES NOT SEEM TO WORK for Mojave when it's running on an HFS+ setup.

Could you manually download the update from Apple Support Downloads and install it to the Mojave running on HFS+? Would that work?

 

[FarmerBob]

I purchased CCC to do a multi-partition drive to drive migration and it ssems all cool and nifty that you can set up each individual operation to be in a group that fires off in order of the operations order. Once all done a couple days later, I found that not all files got moved, in the old days you could get a "Block by Block" migration and get everything. And to get each OS partition to boot I had to rerun the OS installer over the particular migrated OS and then use Onyx to get the volume to boot.

I have run Mōjāv and Catalina on both HFS+ and APFS on an HFS+ drive on a 3,1. I have "Converted" as Disk Util allows and helps several partitions that are amongst other HFS+ partitions back and forth several times. But am done playing and have no need for APFS formatting. I am now running Mōjāv 10.14.6 on an HFS+ partition and Software Update is working just fine. It keeps nagging me to upgrade to Big Sur and when each new Beta version comes out I get notification. I also have gotten every update that either avenue offers. Did a Safari update by clicking on the kinda hidden link below the OS update link in System Prefs Software Update. Got SpeedTest.net and Wire updates through the Application Store last week. Once installed on an HFS+ volume, running Onyx on it after installing anything works wonders. As found by a fellow Macintard on the boards.

 

[Erhardt]

I purchased CCC to do a multi-partition drive to drive migration and it ssems all cool and nifty that you can set up each individual operation to be in a group that fires off in order of the operations order. Once all done a couple days later, I found that not all files got moved, in the old days you could get a "Block by Block" migration and get everything. And to get each OS partition to boot I had to rerun the OS installer over the particular migrated OS and then use Onyx to get the volume to boot.

I have run Mōjāv and Catalina on both HFS+ and APFS on an HFS+ drive on a 3,1. I have "Converted" as Disk Util allows and helps several partitions that are amongst other HFS+ partitions back and forth several times. But am done playing and have no need for APFS formatting. I am now running Mōjāv 10.14.6 on an HFS+ partition and Software Update is working just fine. It keeps nagging me to upgrade to Big Sur and when each new Beta version comes out I get notification. I also have gotten every update that either avenue offers. Did a Safari update by clicking on the kinda hidden link below the OS update link in System Prefs Software Update. Got SpeedTest.net and Wire updates through the Application Store last week. Once installed on an HFS+ volume, running Onyx on it after installing anything works wonders. As found by a fellow Macintard on the boards.

I have to try one more time, it has worked for me with the Hight Sierra.

Regards Freddy

 

[madrich]

Due to displaylink issues, I was forced to upgrade my non retina MBP 13 mid 2012 i7 from High Sierra to Mojave.

When I did the upgrade, the mojave installer change the system from +HFS to APFS.

The boot time drive me crazy, increase to up 1.15 min. Also I noticed so some lack fluency.

So I rolled back to +HFS. Now the boot time is 30 seconds.

Beyond the lost of ability to security updates, What other problem can +HFS cause?


Regards

Just curious did you allow for your MBP to complete “indexing” after Mojave change the system from +HFS to APFS? If not, maybe this caused your boot time to increase and some lack of fluency.

 

[chrfr]

Could you manually download the update from Apple Support Downloads and install it to the Mojave running on HFS+? Would that work?

No, the updates need to be done on an APFS disk.

 

[Taz Mangus]

No, the updates need to be done on an APFS disk.

It seems that @FarmerBob has managed to get Mojave running on HFS+ and is able to get Software Update working.

But am done playing and have no need for APFS formatting. I am now running Mōjāv 10.14.6 on an HFS+ partition and Software Update is working just fine. It keeps nagging me to upgrade to Big Sur and when each new Beta version comes out I get notification. I also have gotten every update that either avenue offers. Did a Safari update by clicking on the kinda hidden link below the OS update link in System Prefs Software Update. Got SpeedTest.net and Wire updates through the Application Store last week.

 

[KeesMacPro]

Due to displaylink issues, I was forced to upgrade my non retina MBP 13 mid 2012 i7 from High Sierra to Mojave.

When I did the upgrade, the mojave installer change the system from +HFS to APFS.

The boot time drive me crazy, increase to up 1.15 min. Also I noticed so some lack fluency.

So I rolled back to +HFS. Now the boot time is 30 seconds.

Beyond the lost of ability to security updates, What other problem can +HFS cause?

If the emphasis is on boot-time and fluency, I'd definitely replace the HDD for a SSD.
My MBP 2012 13" boots in 18 seconds with Mojave APFS and runs smooth,fast and reliable.
Previously with HS (HFS+) boottime was ~ 15 sec.
Personally a HDD for the OS isn't an option anymore for me since I installed an SSD for the first time lots of years ago.


Comparing the performance gain (including its workarounds) of HFS+ , with an easy 15 min job of replacing the HDD for a SSD of ~ €100,- ....