Wow, that's quite impressive. I watched most of the presentation.Diatribe said:
I had no idea that the WWDC stuff made it to Quicktime.com. I'm gonna have to get to downloading!
Thanks for digging up that link.
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Higher Definition Powerbook?
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I had no idea that the WWDC stuff made it to Quicktime.com. I'm gonna have to get to downloading!
Thanks for digging up that link.
CHeck out the prices of pc laptops today at Best Buy
Today I went to Best Buy to see what the competition is offering. Not that I want anything else than a portable Mac but I wanted to see what was out there.
-After talking to the store guy, who seemed quite knowledgable, he confirmed that most PC laptops gets 1-2 hours of battery time of normal use, unless it is a Centrino which gives 4-5 hours.
-For games, you need a Pentium 4 not a Centrino which cuts down battery time.
- Most pc laptops dont have dedicated video memory for the GPU
A pc laptop with a good processor, decent battery life and dedicated videoram for the GPU is around $2500! Makes me feel better about a future upgrade to a PB G4 from my Pismo.
When I look at what is included in a Powerbook and see what that would cost in a pc laptop it makes the Powerbook look like a bargain or at least not overly expensive.
However almost all pc laptops now have the new type of laptop screens "bright something" technology. It definately is a lot brighter and they also have the "HD" wide resolution of 1900+ horizontal pixels.
It looks very impressive next to a laptop with a standard screen! Is this the future for the next generation Powerbook, regardless of G5 or dual G4?
Apart from the screen I think the current batch of powerbooks offer a lot for the money.
Comments?
/Pete
Today I went to Best Buy to see what the competition is offering. Not that I want anything else than a portable Mac but I wanted to see what was out there.
-After talking to the store guy, who seemed quite knowledgable, he confirmed that most PC laptops gets 1-2 hours of battery time of normal use, unless it is a Centrino which gives 4-5 hours.
-For games, you need a Pentium 4 not a Centrino which cuts down battery time.
- Most pc laptops dont have dedicated video memory for the GPU
A pc laptop with a good processor, decent battery life and dedicated videoram for the GPU is around $2500! Makes me feel better about a future upgrade to a PB G4 from my Pismo.
When I look at what is included in a Powerbook and see what that would cost in a pc laptop it makes the Powerbook look like a bargain or at least not overly expensive.
However almost all pc laptops now have the new type of laptop screens "bright something" technology. It definately is a lot brighter and they also have the "HD" wide resolution of 1900+ horizontal pixels.
It looks very impressive next to a laptop with a standard screen! Is this the future for the next generation Powerbook, regardless of G5 or dual G4?
Apart from the screen I think the current batch of powerbooks offer a lot for the money.
Comments?
/Pete
ChrisBrightwell said:Wow, that's quite impressive. I watched most of the presentation.
I had no idea that the WWDC stuff made it to Quicktime.com. I'm gonna have to get to downloading!
Thanks for digging up that link.
Welcome. It's amazing about what stuff they talk about when it is not for consumers. Pretty interesting.
I can't save streams even though I have QuickTime Pro.DavidCar said:
I agree with your guesses on where PowerBooks are headed based on your findings at Best Buy. If Apple could only figure out how to put a slimmed-down PowerPC G5-based CPU in a PowerBook, Apple would have the best notebooks by far. The resolution-independent user interface in Tiger will help everyone, especially if Apple releases computers with displays that are more than 100 pixels per inch.nph said:Today I went to Best Buy to see what the competition is offering. Not that I want anything else than a portable Mac but I wanted to see what was out there.
-After talking to the store guy, who seemed quite knowledgable, he confirmed that most PC laptops gets 1-2 hours of battery time of normal use, unless it is a Centrino which gives 4-5 hours.
-For games, you need a Pentium 4 not a Centrino which cuts down battery time.
- Most pc laptops dont have dedicated video memory for the GPU
A pc laptop with a good processor, decent battery life and dedicated videoram for the GPU is around $2500! Makes me feel better about a future upgrade to a PB G4 from my Pismo.
When I look at what is included in a Powerbook and see what that would cost in a pc laptop it makes the Powerbook look like a bargain or at least not overly expensive.
However almost all pc laptops now have the new type of laptop screens "bright something" technology. It definately is a lot brighter and they also have the "HD" wide resolution of 1900+ horizontal pixels.
It looks very impressive next to a laptop with a standard screen! Is this the future for the next generation Powerbook, regardless of G5 or dual G4?
Apart from the screen I think the current batch of powerbooks offer a lot for the money.
Comments?
/Pete
QCassidy352 said:
Not only that, but most LCD's support a limitted amount of resolutions. I have a friend who just bought a 15" Dell laptop with the highest resolution. He tried to reduce the resolution and it looks like crap for almost everything except the best resolution. Half of the supported resolutions are standard 4:3 settings which means he gets stretching. You need to buy them for the resolution you intend to run, not run it at a lower setting.
I think higher resolutions should be a BTO option. Honestly, I think the 12" should stay as it is, but it would be nice to see higher resolution as an *option* on the 15" and 17".
I'm curious if anyone even makes a 12" panel with higher resolution. I'm kind of doubtful. I suspect you'd need to go to a slightly different widescreen model.
Too bad I can't save the stream. I was just trying to watch one of the other sessions, about Quicktime, and it keeps breaking up on me, much more than when watching the other stream yesterday, both in Safari and Quicktime player. It would also be nice to see more of the WWDC sessions available.
I am among those whose eyes would not favor a higher density display. I wonder if a 23 inch powerbook would workable.
I am among those whose eyes would not favor a higher density display. I wonder if a 23 inch powerbook would workable.
when do you guys think this would happen? if ever? and would it happen to the 15" or should i just cave and buy one already
btw: the killers album is well Killer, if you haven't already heard it
btw: the killers album is well Killer, if you haven't already heard it
I think this is way overdue and that Apple would introduce it with the G5 powerbook but maybe they feel they can't wait any longer.
I agree, I can't see why Apple hasn't offered a more significant update (or didn't offer the previous speed bump ect. earlier) unless they were banking on a mobile g5 or something breakthrough that just could not be or was not done on time. Hopefully whatever it is (g5PB) it will be done or 'done enough' soon so that Apple doesn't stall with tiny updates anymore.
Hopefully with the Mobile PC market gearing up with replaceable gpus and the new amd/intel processors this summer, Apple will be forced to play its hand, whatever processor it has been working on, even a big bulky g5 portable or a revised g4 with a huge cache or whatever. I would love to see a mobile nvidia 6800 or (ati) x800 in the 17" and as a bto 15". That plus the x300 or similar in the 12" would be killer in+of itself. A new case design would be neat too, maybe bring back black as an option, or something like blue. Right now, though, the definition upgrade would be enough to convince me atleast to go for a 17 over 15".
Hopefully with the Mobile PC market gearing up with replaceable gpus and the new amd/intel processors this summer, Apple will be forced to play its hand, whatever processor it has been working on, even a big bulky g5 portable or a revised g4 with a huge cache or whatever. I would love to see a mobile nvidia 6800 or (ati) x800 in the 17" and as a bto 15". That plus the x300 or similar in the 12" would be killer in+of itself. A new case design would be neat too, maybe bring back black as an option, or something like blue. Right now, though, the definition upgrade would be enough to convince me atleast to go for a 17 over 15".
displaced said:That's where the resolution-independence features of Tiger come in. You can have as high a resolution display as you like. But the entire user interface can scale up to keep itself readable. You may well ask 'what's the point, then?'. Well, even though the UI's being enlarged to give it the same physical size as at the lower resolutions, that display is still being drawn with the precision and smoothness that the higher resolution provides.
It's all in that Graphics State of the Union quicktime stream
actually that sounds alright.
but before they start upping resolutions i reckon they should at least make the 12" brighter and such. or do it all at once. a nice big screen update
EDIT: hold up! wouldnt this resolution-independence mean much higher file sizes? specifically with the icons? instead of an icons maximum image being 256x256 or whatever the new max would be 1024, in 32bit/alpha you're talking bigger and bigger files. which would also take thier toll on the graphics card too with the docks resizing? hmm...
Actually, Apple doesn't need to change anything about the maximum icon sizes. Remember how Quartz smoothly scales icons to whatever size you want? It can do the same thing in reverse...making icons bigger than 128x128 (the maximum size); it may not look quite as pretty, but if it still works, why bother changing it?raggedjimmi said:actually that sounds alright.
but before they start upping resolutions i reckon they should at least make the 12" brighter and such. or do it all at once. a nice big screen update
EDIT: hold up! wouldnt this resolution-independence mean much higher file sizes? specifically with the icons? instead of an icons maximum image being 256x256 or whatever the new max would be 1024, in 32bit/alpha you're talking bigger and bigger files. which would also take thier toll on the graphics card too with the docks resizing? hmm...
I'm getting old...
I miss 72 dpi native! Everything else is too hard to see.
Of course, if the #%$# software developers would stop defining tools (such as this blinking cursor) at 1 pixel width, perhaps I wouldn't suffer so.
Try turning on invisibles in Quark 6.5 on a 30" LCD. DUH! They are effectively invisible STILL! Leave it to Quark, always behind the times, and never a thought for the user experience.
Back to my old CRT so I can get some work DONE.
One bad pixel on that 30", bet IT'S going back.
I miss 72 dpi native! Everything else is too hard to see.
Of course, if the #%$# software developers would stop defining tools (such as this blinking cursor) at 1 pixel width, perhaps I wouldn't suffer so.
Try turning on invisibles in Quark 6.5 on a 30" LCD. DUH! They are effectively invisible STILL! Leave it to Quark, always behind the times, and never a thought for the user experience.
Back to my old CRT so I can get some work DONE.
One bad pixel on that 30", bet IT'S going back.
You're in luck. With Tiger you can easily simulate 72 DPI native with the Quartz UI scaling feature and be able to see all of your user interface widgets again.kafelatte said:
Higher-res displays on PB's - some info.
I find this whole display thing interesting, because when I bought my Powerbook 17" last year, my buddy was considering a Powerbook purchase too. Instead, he finally decided on a high-end Sager (mail order) laptop, optimized for gaming. It was a much thicker, heavier beast than my Powerbook 17", but it had certain features that were quite nice. For one thing, it had a separate numeric keypad built into it, to the right of the keyboard. (The Powerbook 17" looked like it could have easily done the same thing, if they didn't waste so much space on the left and right-hand sides of the keyboard.)
Perhaps most interesting though, it had the higher resolution LCD panel that this discussion is about. At the time, it seemed to be about the only laptop shipping that offered a screen superior to what was in my Powerbook. My buddy even called Sager's technical support and asked them about it (because it was apparently a feature that Sager didn't even initally adverise as being in his particular laptop, but which got "slipstreamed" into all units purchased after a certain date). Sager told him they were initially going to use the *exact same LCD panel* Apple uses for Powerbook 17"s, but Apple bought up practically all the available stock of those panels from the manufacturer. Sager was unable to get ahold of enough of them, so they ended up working a deal with the display maker to get a quantity deal on the upgraded resolution version of it instead.
So my guess is, Apple held off this long on upgrading the display resolutions because they wanted to deplete some of their existing stock of panels first. (Powerbook sales have apparently been rather slow for them this last year too - so they may not have burned through their parts inventory as quickly as initially expected.) It seems the current model of LCD panel they use is the higher-res one anyway....
mashinhead said:
I find this whole display thing interesting, because when I bought my Powerbook 17" last year, my buddy was considering a Powerbook purchase too. Instead, he finally decided on a high-end Sager (mail order) laptop, optimized for gaming. It was a much thicker, heavier beast than my Powerbook 17", but it had certain features that were quite nice. For one thing, it had a separate numeric keypad built into it, to the right of the keyboard. (The Powerbook 17" looked like it could have easily done the same thing, if they didn't waste so much space on the left and right-hand sides of the keyboard.)
Perhaps most interesting though, it had the higher resolution LCD panel that this discussion is about. At the time, it seemed to be about the only laptop shipping that offered a screen superior to what was in my Powerbook. My buddy even called Sager's technical support and asked them about it (because it was apparently a feature that Sager didn't even initally adverise as being in his particular laptop, but which got "slipstreamed" into all units purchased after a certain date). Sager told him they were initially going to use the *exact same LCD panel* Apple uses for Powerbook 17"s, but Apple bought up practically all the available stock of those panels from the manufacturer. Sager was unable to get ahold of enough of them, so they ended up working a deal with the display maker to get a quantity deal on the upgraded resolution version of it instead.
So my guess is, Apple held off this long on upgrading the display resolutions because they wanted to deplete some of their existing stock of panels first. (Powerbook sales have apparently been rather slow for them this last year too - so they may not have burned through their parts inventory as quickly as initially expected.) It seems the current model of LCD panel they use is the higher-res one anyway....
if they do bring out a HD 17" PowerBook i'd definitely upgrade.
well... if they do something drastic to improve the processor. or even if they kept the HD 17" PB's price the same... then i'd still seriously consider it.
well... if they do something drastic to improve the processor. or even if they kept the HD 17" PB's price the same... then i'd still seriously consider it.
Ummm I call BS on a lot of this.
There was your first mistake.
Umm only if they are running Pentium 4 PCUs. Talk to him about AMD's mobile solutions.
Umm BS. I'm got a friend that is running a Latitude 2Ghz Pentium M with Quake III and it runs flawless.
Now that is just an outright lie.
Double BS.
Dell Latitudes
Gateway
Toshiba
Sony
Now maybe if you are doing all your shopping at BB it will be around that price mark but not if you get your laptop from an online source.
The kool aid is strong in this one.
Apart from the screen I think the current batch of powerbooks offer a lot for the money.
[/QUOTE]
Ummm not really but sure. Fine. We'll go with that opinion.
nph said:
There was your first mistake.
Umm only if they are running Pentium 4 PCUs. Talk to him about AMD's mobile solutions.
Umm BS. I'm got a friend that is running a Latitude 2Ghz Pentium M with Quake III and it runs flawless.
Now that is just an outright lie.
Double BS.
Dell Latitudes
Gateway
Toshiba
Sony
Now maybe if you are doing all your shopping at BB it will be around that price mark but not if you get your laptop from an online source.
The kool aid is strong in this one.Apart from the screen I think the current batch of powerbooks offer a lot for the money.
[/QUOTE]
Ummm not really but sure. Fine. We'll go with that opinion.
SiliconAddict said:
I wouldn't say that. My biggest gripe about PC notebooks is the general lack of dedicated graphics chips. I would have bought an HP dv1040 if it had a real GPU available, instead of the cosmic joke that is Intel "Extreme Graphics." Dell makes it tricky and expensive to get a decent GPU in most of their machines, unless you go with the Latitude line, which pretty quickly escalates to PowerBook pricing and is thicker and heavier. Sony and Toshiba do pretty good jobs with regard to graphics subsystems, but the Sony ones run a healthy pricetag.
The overwhelming majority of sub-$1500 notebooks lack dedicated graphics, and even some running up to $2000 still don't catch on. In the same weight/dimensions categories as the PowerBooks, it's pretty damn tough to get dedicated GPUs, so they come out on top here.
It's possible to get a better-performing notebook for less than a PowerBook, but it's also pretty easy to spend as much as a PowerBook for that same feature set, as well. The extensiveness of the PC market gives you a huge price range, which does tend to make me wonder why the more expensive ones with almost the exact same features are worth the extra money. Apple's iBook sort of parallels this strange phenomenon--similar performance for less. At least Apple tries to differentiate with a bunch of "minor" feature improvements, (Widescreen, more external display functionality, faster bus, more RAM, SMS, backlit keyboards on some models, better GPU, aluminum and thin construction, faster/larger hard drives, gigabit ethernet/FW800) when you're left looking at two Inspirons with the same Pentium M, same GPU, same RAM and other specs, while one is $300 more than the other.
Cool beans! But why wasn't this done sooner? Does that resolution take too much from the processor?
There are several reasons:ASP272 said:
1. Apple insists that 100 ppi is best for design work, and designers are the market Apple targets the most. This is by far the most important reason.
2. As far as power drain goes, it's not the processor that would be consuming more power, it's the graphics card.
3. The graphics cards in PowerBooks of that time may not have been capable of such a resolution, depending on what time frame you had in mind.
4. Apple is probably going to wait until Tiger to do this because the only way to meet Apple's 100 ppi insistence and have more resolution is to use a resolution-independent user interface, a feature that Tiger will have.
nph said:Today I went to Best Buy to see what the competition is offering. Not that I want anything else than a portable Mac but I wanted to see what was out there.
-After talking to the store guy, who seemed quite knowledgable, he confirmed that most PC laptops gets 1-2 hours of battery time of normal use, unless it is a Centrino which gives 4-5 hours.
-For games, you need a Pentium 4 not a Centrino which cuts down battery time.
- Most pc laptops dont have dedicated video memory for the GPU
A pc laptop with a good processor, decent battery life and dedicated videoram for the GPU is around $2500! Makes me feel better about a future upgrade to a PB G4 from my Pismo.
When I look at what is included in a Powerbook and see what that would cost in a pc laptop it makes the Powerbook look like a bargain or at least not overly expensive.
However almost all pc laptops now have the new type of laptop screens "bright something" technology. It definately is a lot brighter and they also have the "HD" wide resolution of 1900+ horizontal pixels.
It looks very impressive next to a laptop with a standard screen! Is this the future for the next generation Powerbook, regardless of G5 or dual G4?
Apart from the screen I think the current batch of powerbooks offer a lot for the money.
Comments?
/Pete
i'll take a stab...
For games, it doesnt really matter anymore. its the GPU that does most of the work these days. That said, if you do want a more gaming optimized cpu, Athlon 64 would be the way to go and its battery life is on par with the G4.
and as far as $2500 goes, bestbuy has gateway's for $1399 online only.
Athlon 64 3400, Radeon 9600 (listed as 9550 but it is 9600) 1GB Ram, 80GB 5400rpm, 15.4" Widescreen (bright view), 8x DVDRW.
that said, i still love my new 12" PB for $1499. it all depends on what you want to do with your computer, personally i'm not very productive when the latest 3D game is an option. i'd rather waste my time on macrumors
higher resolution displays
I would also like to see Apple incorporate sub-pixel rendering into quartz (ala the current font smoothing feature). This would effectively provide a tripling of the resolution for LCD displays. Hopefully this is included as part of the resolution-independent features of Tiger.
I would also like to see Apple incorporate sub-pixel rendering into quartz (ala the current font smoothing feature). This would effectively provide a tripling of the resolution for LCD displays. Hopefully this is included as part of the resolution-independent features of Tiger.