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Holy Crap Leopard stuff
- Thread starter dadsp33k
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4np
macrumors 6502a
Unless there are not any secret Leopard things popping up at Leopard's release, I would say it's mostly a under the hood / performance change (64 bit, performance tweaks, etc) . Except for some visible features like Time Machine, Tabbed Terminal, etc. (
GimmeSlack12
macrumors 603
Think of it as an evolution really. It will look different, yet not a big departure from Tiger. The continuing refinement of OS X really starts with 10.3 in my eye, as that was when OS X was fully ready to go (again IMO). So we'll again see some additions (time machine, spaces, etc.) and some upgrades to previous stuff (iCal, iChat, spotlight, expose, etc.).
And on top of that performance increases are expected. Overall, I'm really looking forward to Leopard!
And on top of that performance increases are expected. Overall, I'm really looking forward to Leopard!
if it's like that then it's a good middle..it's nice to have a little eye change but too much and there's too much to re-learn (cough-vista).
GimmeSlack12
macrumors 603
Yeah well Apple had it's Vista big change moment years ago when they introduced OS X.
Believe me, I wasn't very happy having to re-learn how to use my Mac after years of using Classic OS. I was apprehensive to embrace this shiny new OS and interface. But nowadays I'm sound as a bug in a rug.
Believe me, I wasn't very happy having to re-learn how to use my Mac after years of using Classic OS. I was apprehensive to embrace this shiny new OS and interface. But nowadays I'm sound as a bug in a rug.
OldCorpse
macrumors 68000
Definitely, it'll be a refinement, and a tiny one at that. There were still big changes under the hood in Tiger compared to Panther, but now the foundations are laid. From here on, it'll be minor tweaks (until one day they decide to change the kernel or file structure). Not that that is bad in any way - I'd wet my pants if Leopard fixed the many, many annoying things that still don't work in Tiger, and added things that just make sense. I'd be more than ecstatic if Finder was fixed - but I don't dare hope.
Overall, I'm not excited by what we know so far about Leopard. Yes, I know about "secret features" - but frankly, my suspicion is that they are pretty 'meh'... otherwise if they were some kind of revolutionary things they'd need extensive testing, and that means release to developers - and that hasn't happened, and CANNOT happen this close to the release date (April probably, and certainly not later than June). So, the secret features will be nothing, nothing, nothing - what kind of "features" don't need release to developers to test extensively?? That's right, only minor 'meh' features - BIG FREAKIN' YAWN!
Bottom line - Leopard is likely to be like SP2 for XP - S N O R E 😡
Overall, I'm not excited by what we know so far about Leopard. Yes, I know about "secret features" - but frankly, my suspicion is that they are pretty 'meh'... otherwise if they were some kind of revolutionary things they'd need extensive testing, and that means release to developers - and that hasn't happened, and CANNOT happen this close to the release date (April probably, and certainly not later than June). So, the secret features will be nothing, nothing, nothing - what kind of "features" don't need release to developers to test extensively?? That's right, only minor 'meh' features - BIG FREAKIN' YAWN!
Bottom line - Leopard is likely to be like SP2 for XP - S N O R E 😡
I can think of a couple of leopard features that I'm excited about.
1. Mail 3.0. It now has RSS and notes. I think those two features will improve my work flow.
2. Quick Look. That is a leaked feature. It is a new media player for Mac. I can finally have full screen in a simple lite player.
3. Help search. This feature will also improve my work flow. It shows you what you are searching for directly in the menu bar. This is a fantastic use of spot like. I can't say how much I love this.
4. Automator 2.0 looks like it recieved a complete overhaul. I was excited about 1.0 but never used it. 2.0 looks like a completly different application. We will see how it works.
5. iChat - it finally has tabs and screen sharing is cool too. the background thing is damn awesome. I'm actually thinking of buying a new laptop because of iChat.
6. Safari i really like the in line search implementation of safari. its cool as ****. Not to mention moveable tabs 🙂.
7. Spotlight. I use spotlight all the time, to launch apps and get documents. I can now use it to get dictionary definition and make calculation. Spotlight just took the last useful features away from quicksilver.
8 ical. From the leaks it looks like iCal is going to be recieving some more attention. I'm digging the whole notes thing. If I get an iPhone then the calender work flow integration will be major.
I'm hoping that we have a fixed finder and fixed multi monitor support. But we will see.
The thing that I'm most exited about leopard is that it is a huge leap forward for developers. With the introduction of leopard, I think that Cocoa is now the premire developer environment in the computer industry.
I'm very excited to see what the Leopard Apps will look like.
Is all this worth 129. I don't know, I'm paying 16 bucks through Uni.
1. Mail 3.0. It now has RSS and notes. I think those two features will improve my work flow.
2. Quick Look. That is a leaked feature. It is a new media player for Mac. I can finally have full screen in a simple lite player.
3. Help search. This feature will also improve my work flow. It shows you what you are searching for directly in the menu bar. This is a fantastic use of spot like. I can't say how much I love this.
4. Automator 2.0 looks like it recieved a complete overhaul. I was excited about 1.0 but never used it. 2.0 looks like a completly different application. We will see how it works.
5. iChat - it finally has tabs and screen sharing is cool too. the background thing is damn awesome. I'm actually thinking of buying a new laptop because of iChat.
6. Safari i really like the in line search implementation of safari. its cool as ****. Not to mention moveable tabs 🙂.
7. Spotlight. I use spotlight all the time, to launch apps and get documents. I can now use it to get dictionary definition and make calculation. Spotlight just took the last useful features away from quicksilver.
8 ical. From the leaks it looks like iCal is going to be recieving some more attention. I'm digging the whole notes thing. If I get an iPhone then the calender work flow integration will be major.
I'm hoping that we have a fixed finder and fixed multi monitor support. But we will see.
The thing that I'm most exited about leopard is that it is a huge leap forward for developers. With the introduction of leopard, I think that Cocoa is now the premire developer environment in the computer industry.
I'm very excited to see what the Leopard Apps will look like.
Is all this worth 129. I don't know, I'm paying 16 bucks through Uni.
OldCorpse
macrumors 68000
I don't use Mail. I have Gmail + Gmail Notifier and it does all I need + RSS and notes. I don't do email when not online anyway. Besides, to use RSS you still have to be online, and there are RSS clients and inbuilt capabilities in both Safari and Firefox - so what's new here? And notes - again built in.
But the question is: is this revolutionary? Hardly. A tiny refinement.
Well, since it's a leak we don't know. That said, the mac platform desperately needs a media player that can play all files out there - no more this BS where you need a windows machine to be an equal citizen on the net. If this player doesn't have that, then I don't need it.
Revolutionary: too soon to know, especially that it's a leaked feature. And really it'll just be catching up to windows, sorry.
Meh. Spotlight needs a top to bottom redo - it's crippleware at this point. I want not just Boolean searches, I want to see the darn path to the found objects right there in the search - no more of this tooltip nonsense that takes ages and doesn't work half the time.
Revolutionary: hardly. A tiny, tiny refinement, a bandaid on a pimple while we need surgery for a terminal cancer.
We'll just have to see. As is, few people (by percentage) use Automator, and geeks seem to stick to Apple Script routines which appear to be more efficient.
Revolutionary: wait and see. If they really make it super-efficient and simple to bring in joe six-pack, maybe.
iChat - ugh. I mean, there are so many better clients out there, I really don't see the point of this poorly implemented app from Apple.
Revolutionary: ha, ha, ha. Apple will be lucky to get within 50% of what Skype offers today just for macs - and for windows, bwahahaha!
Call me when Safari can feature-match Firefox.
Revolutionary: ha, ha, ha. Try catching up with Firefox first.
See my remarks about Spotlight above. This app needs a re-work from the ground up. It's implementation so far is rudimentary.
Revolutionary: not from what we hear so far. Typical example of an app with huge potential and promise that's shamefully undelivered.
OMG. The single worst app from Apple. Tiny little boxes to put text in where you hardly see anything, all restricted and inflexible - with superhuman curiosity I tried valiantly to fit it into my workflow for a month or so before I simply had to escape.
Revolutionary: in suckitude. It cannot be rescued. Only atomic annihilation of this app can restore a sense of sanity to the calendar/scheduling developer team at Apple.
Yeah, well, I've been waiting for Apple to fix the finder for so long it feels like I'm sitting in a rocking chair listening to my arteries harden. If they fix the finder, it'll be revolutionary - though only for Apple, since other OS have had decent file structure accessibility forever.
Huh? I think developers got most Cocoa goodness with Tiger when the OS has been stabilized. It's all refinenements from here on, until Apple decides to update the kernel.
Bottom line: some will be excited by Leopard. Personally, I see no reason for excitement. I'm willing to be surprised though, once it comes out.
Right on! Totally awsome comments. I felt like I was reading my own thoughts! You go, OldCorpse! Yes - Apple needs to cut the crap, get with it, make QT go full screen and play everything, make a real calendar app, fix the frickin finder, etc.
Are you serious, OSX is miles ahead of XP.
I know that the market share is tiny, but how many mac users switch OS? (answer: virtually none), compared to a lot who switch from windows to OSX...
huck500
macrumors 6502
I'm curious, Corpse, why are you using a mac at all? According to your post, you think Windows does everything better, so why not use that? I'm not criticizing, I'm just curious.
I have to disagree with most of your points, though... VLC plays every media file I've tried with it, no problem, full screen, and it's free.
Spotlight does everything I need it to do, and if I need to find the file I just right click. There it is. If I really need to see the path it always pops up, it works all the time for me.
iCal does everything I need it to do, as does Mail. I've tried other apps, and they seem bloated to me. I don't use the extra features.
I see people complaining about the Finder all the time... what do you need it to do? Just curious. I use Spotlight to find everything that's not on my Dock. It seems fine to me.
And did you actually type "bwahahaha"? Seriously?
Namo, my Powerbook supports the built-in monitor and an interactive smartboard at the same time, what's broken about multiple monitor support?
I have to disagree with most of your points, though... VLC plays every media file I've tried with it, no problem, full screen, and it's free.
Spotlight does everything I need it to do, and if I need to find the file I just right click. There it is. If I really need to see the path it always pops up, it works all the time for me.
iCal does everything I need it to do, as does Mail. I've tried other apps, and they seem bloated to me. I don't use the extra features.
I see people complaining about the Finder all the time... what do you need it to do? Just curious. I use Spotlight to find everything that's not on my Dock. It seems fine to me.
And did you actually type "bwahahaha"? Seriously?
Namo, my Powerbook supports the built-in monitor and an interactive smartboard at the same time, what's broken about multiple monitor support?
McGarvels
macrumors 6502
BornAgainMac
macrumors 604
I hope it isn't too different. I would hate to see a big Core Animation Start Button at the lower right hand side for Leopard with popup notifications for USB connections and such.
wmmk
macrumors 68020
http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/spotlight.html
Quick Look is not leaked. It it part of spotlight...
Quick Look is not leaked. It it part of spotlight...
I think people are underestimating what Core Animation can do. I think its going to be big in Leopard.
I am psyched about Spaces. I use VirtueDesktops constantly, and it looks like Spaces will be a much better implementation of virtual desktops.
I use the motion sensitivity in virtue desktops...I doubt apple will implement this with Spaces, I hope there will be something to combine the two...
In some ways OS X is ahead of XP and in some ways it is not. And I was not even comparing the two. I was just agreeing with OldCorpse that Apple needs to get with the program and fix/change a lot of long-time problems. And add Mac OS X's networking and filesharing to that list - XP is WAY ahead when if comes to that! Period! End of story!
jsw
Moderator emeritus
I'm happy you found a different solution. Mail works well for me, and the improved Exchange compatibility in Leopard means I can eliminate using Entourage.
As mentioned, VLC does this fine.
Learn to use Terminal, or ⌘-F in Finder windows.
Don't use it if you don't like it. Leopard's version is improved, and, of course, even Tiger's version far exceeds anything in Windows.
One of the few things I agree with you on, to some extent. Skype is better. The iChat enhancements are mostly eye candy, but the web conferencing (since Tiger) is pretty cool and not available in Skype.
Clearly, Safari doesn't suit your purposes. Fine by me. Leopard capabilities impressed the hell out of me at the developer conference last month.
Yeah, it's not incredibly advanced. Power users use Terminal for most such things. But it's hardly "rudimentary" - perhaps you're unfamiliar with the definition of that word or with how to use Spotlight.
Don't use it then. Clearly, you must require some awesome calendaring capabilities. And the built-in XP/Vista equivalent is better... how?
Yes, it's outdated. And it's vastly worse than Vista's, er, XP's, er, Windows 2000's, er, NT's file system from the mid 1990's. Not.
You speak from a position of true ignorance if you see no improvement in developer capabilities between Tiger and Leopard. Complete and utter ignorance.
Fine. One less person in line to buy it in front of me.
Period end of story. Your way or the highway! Please...
I have read a lot of your post MacVault and they are all anti-mac. I wonder why that is? Why are you on a Pro-mac discussion board.
Old Corpse, I haven't read a lot of your post, but you are coming off as unreasonably anti-mac too. You seem to think that this discussion is about being right and wrong when it is about what gets you excited in Leopard. I don't appreciate you belittling all the things about leopard that I think will make me happy.
Mavimao
macrumors 6502a
Can I please ask why so many people are so against the finder? I think it is one of the greatest features of OSX! (well, the finder since OSX.3 that is)
Well, I think everyone has a right to speak their mind on a certain topic. I respect Old Corpse's opinion, but I just would like to know WHY he hates the features so much and what he would do personally to make them better.
Well, I think everyone has a right to speak their mind on a certain topic. I respect Old Corpse's opinion, but I just would like to know WHY he hates the features so much and what he would do personally to make them better.
compuwar
macrumors 601
Very few developers have any direct interaction with the kernel, and Cocoa developers least-of-all, so I'm not sure where this comes from. A kernel update really shouldn't have all that much affect on application developers, since they're a library away from anything other than the BSD personality layer, and generally don't touch the microkernel.
Ive got a 2Ghz CD MBP with 1Gb RAM, im assuming it will run leopard fine, will i be disappointed?
How bout this list for starters...
1) Fix OS X's networking and filesharing
2) Allow full screen in QuickTime (free version)
3) Allow QuickTime to play most all video codecs as does MPlayer & VLC.
4) Make a real Calendar app. iCal SUCKS!
5) Make a real email app. Mail SUCKS!
6) Fix & Modernize the Finder and OS X GUI - I run accross finder/ui bugs quite often in OS X.
7) Advanced Search features in Spotlight
8) Paths in finder - like in Windows where you can see or enter the path to files or directories.
Oh what else.. I guess I'll let Corpse add to the list.
*
I'm sorry that my comment about monitor spanning wasn't clear. It may have been lost in MacValut's and OldSchool's negativity. I realize that screen spanning works. Its even better than XP.
I just think that there are some fundamental problems with OS X's UI when you have multiple screens of different sizes. Like if you are in a bigger screen and you want to get to a smaller screen there is an imaginary board where you can't cross. It's hard to explain in words.
Quick time can play anything out there. You just need a plug in. I think windows calls these a direct show filter. I use ffdshow and some ogg vorbis plugin when I was on windows. On the Mac I use Perian and flip4Mac. There are a couple more but you should be able to play 99.9999% of videos with that combination.