HomePod Homepod 2

[boltjames]

Well, I'm basing my *opinion* on a couple of observations. First, that all the Homepods I bought in the past couple of months came with iOS 11 on them.

The one I bought a few months ago had iOS12 on it. It’s not like these things spoil, they aren’t bananas.

Second, that pesky 5% market share thing...

Units don’t pay the bills. Dollars do. HomePod isn’t competing with an Echo Dot. MacBook market share is 7%. Is that a failure or does Apple make the highest quality computers in the world for a discerning, wealthy consumer niche?

If you understood Apple you’d understand HomePod.

 

[Shifts]

Again, I said HomePod is the best bookshelf speaker on the market for audiophiles who have converted to streaming. No one has giant listening rooms anymore with space for these massive speakers not to mention components. It’s not 1980.

The audiophile market is indeed a shrinking one and probably soon dead apart from the insanely pricy. But you mentioned it and therefor I comment on that, as you are wrong even if we only look at bookshelf speakers:

There are different definitions on what this is, as it can be a reference to the size (Devialet - Silver Phantom, KEF - LS50, B&W - Formation Duo) or that it should be placed in a bookshelf (Ikea - Eneby 30, Teenage Engineering - OD-11) directly adjacent to a wall.

With these things in mind, you are still wrong. The true bookshelf speakers (Eneby 30, OD-11) sound a lot better than the HomePod. Also according to Apple‘s instructions, the HomePod should be placed “6–12 inches away from any wall or corner with at least 6 inches of space around it.”. That is no bookshelf placement...

All of these mentioned models offer streaming modules built in, so all you need is a phone and an app. Some of these even support AirPlay, even if I didn‘t look for that now. Most support Spotify Connect.

So anyway I look at what you say, I find it incorrect.

 

[HDFan]

Well, now you have.

And I guess you don’t remember the first 5 years of iPhone when fiercely competitive carriers were giving them away in a race to capture subscribers. Work a little short in the early years, make it all up in the long term. The streaming industry is going through that same thing right now.

Those pricers were due to carrier subsidies, not Apple dropping its prices. I assume that given the volumes the carriers did get some sort of a discount.

 

[boltjames]

Those pricers were due to carrier subsidies, not Apple dropping its prices. I assume that given the volumes the carriers did get some sort of a discount.

Sure, but Apple isn't a mobile network, they aren't AT&T or Orange, they make no money from phone subscribers, they only make phone hardware.

When it comes to music, different story. Apple is both the hardware supplier (HomePod) and the network (Apple Music) so they can work short on the hardware and get fat and happy on the margins from the network subscriptions.

Point is, you can't look at HomePod in these convenient 'bubbles'. One that says "it doesn't have market share" and the other that says "Apple is losing money on it".

Apple Music has overtaken Spotify as the biggest streaming music platform in the USA due in part to HomePod and the 12+ million of them sold. There's your "market share" as its far more important to be the #1 streaming platform than to sell speakers.

If someone spends $300 on a HomePod they are most certainly going to be an Apple Music subscriber for 5+ years generating no less than $600 in streaming revenue. There's your "making money" as Apple is both the hardware supplier and the streaming network.

HomePod generates $1.2 billion dollars in revenue each year and it's helped propel Apple Music to the biggest streaming service in America. It's a smashing success.

 

[pup]

It's a smashing success.

You really have drunk the kool aid, haven't you?

(walks past the HomePod in the dining room to learn that, yes, once again it's stopped playing and iTunes hasn't a clue)

 

[boltjames]

You really have drunk the kool aid, haven't you?

(walks past the HomePod in the dining room to learn that, yes, once again it's stopped playing and iTunes hasn't a clue)

12 million people love their HomePod’s. At $1.2 billion dollars a year in revenue under a single sku, its one of the best selling consumer electronics products in history.

Fix your wi-fi. Your single-user issue isn’t reflective of HomePod, Apple Music, or its 12 million happy owners.

 

[pup]

Fix your wi-fi.

Problem is that I have a Sonos Move that works flawlessly. And if I swap its location with the HomePod, it still works flawlessly and the HomePod still cuts out. So logically, the problem is neither the WiFi nor the source - though don't get me wrong, airplay does have its problems. I'd be willing to believe that the HomePod has a weak wifi radio. But even if, it shouldn't be so bad as to have problems with line of sight to a wifi node only 14 feet away.

Back to sound quality, I just added a new Sonos One to my system, and I'd rate the sound roughly the same as the HomePod. The HomePod is a little richer, but IMO that's outweighed by ability to adjust base and treble per speaker on the Sonos. The HomePod also sounds a bit closed up relative to the Sonos. Add to that the cost difference and being able to hardwire the Sonos (and of course the reliability), and it's definitely my recommendation over a HomePod. I've got three more speakers to add to complete my system, and unless something new comes out, they'll be two Sonos Ones and a Five. I'll keep the HomePod probably, but it will end up in some room where it doesn't bother me if it cuts out. .

If Apple would add equalization, ethernet input, and fix the connection issues, then I'd rate the HomePod pretty highly.

Do you have a reference for that 12 million number you keep throwing around?

 

[boltjames]

Problem is that I have a Sonos Move that works flawlessly. And if I swap its location with the HomePod, it still works flawlessly and the HomePod still cuts out. So logically, the problem is neither the WiFi nor the source - though don't get me wrong, airplay does have its problems. I'd be willing to believe that the HomePod has a weak wifi radio. But even if, it shouldn't be so bad as to have problems with line of sight to a wifi node only 14 feet away.

Have you returned this product and exchanged it for another one? I have 3 HomePod's in my home and my son's have another 1 each at college, none of us have any issues with disconnection or streaming to/from Apple TV or iTunes.

Back to sound quality, I just added a new Sonos One to my system, and I'd rate the sound roughly the same as the HomePod. The HomePod is a little richer, but IMO that's outweighed by ability to adjust base and treble per speaker on the Sonos.

I like the fact that I don't have to think about equalization. HomePod sounds great and I'm relieved by how easy it is to operate. Plug it in, "Hey Siri...", and off you go.

If Apple would add equalization, ethernet input, and fix the connection issues, then I'd rate the HomePod pretty highly.

As I've got 5 HomePods and no connection issues I'm going to have to say you've got a defective unit or some bandwidth issues unique to yourself. There aren't rampant complaints in this area. As for EQ and Ethernet, there's no need for either. The whole idea of streaming on a HomePod is ease of use.

Do you have a reference for that 12 million number you keep throwing around?

Per Google searches, HomePod sold 3 million units in its first 6 months of release (August 2018 datapoint) and another 1.6 million in Q4 of that year. And this past Christmas, HomePod sold 2.6 million units in Q4 (February 2020 datapoint).

So if you add up the 3.0M for the first 6 months and the 1.6M for Q4 and estimate that they sold 1.0M for Q3, the first year's sales of HomePod were 5.6M

For year 2 last year, the 2.6M units in Q4 were an increase of 62%. So if you take the 5.6M units from the first year and add 60% you're just shy of 8.0M units by the time we get to this past Christmas. But that anniversary includes the launch, so you'd say to cut that back. But it has a good amount of sales at $200 so you'd say to increase it. 5.6M + 8.0M = 14.6M

And those numbers are US sales. The HomePod is available in 7 other countries- UK, Japan, Taiwan, Australia, Canada, France, and Germany. So 12M is conservative. It's probably closer to 20M by now.

 

[cynics]

An audiophile can definitely have a place for the HomePod. Quick note I'm being literal when I say EQ and equalize, equalize frequencies to obtain a flat soundscape I'm NOT referring to adjusting frequencies via an equalizer for user preferences.

For me I have a place at the end of a counter that is near the center of a large open space of my foyer, kitchen, living room and dining room. There is nearly 360 degree of access around this spot at the end of the counter.

First I put a Sonos One on the counter but it would only sound good in the dining room and foyer, ok and in the living room and terrible in the kitchen due to being behind it. Talk radio could become inaudible at times so I found myself spinning the speaker around to face me too often.

Next I moved a Sonos Play 5 into the living room to broadcast across the entire area. The standard speaker design across the large area of hardwood floor caused attenuation from reflection. The volume of the Play 5 in the living room needed to be uncomfortably loud (hot spot) to sound good in the dining room.

Both Sonos speakers sound great however neither were the right fit for the application. I absolutely love my Play 5's since they will rock the house.

Enter the HomePod, an omnidirectional speaker. The HomePod uses horned tweeters which have a narrower optimal listening area but reach further. Using 7 horned tweeters covers the entire area with less loss across the distance. This minimizes reflections off the floor however requires microphones to operate properly due to wall reflection (horned tweeters are difficult to use regardless). The resulting sound propagation has equal volume and frequency levels 360 degrees around the HomePod and across most of the surrounding area. The sound produced is as close as I can get to wearing headphones without wearing headphones.

Having an equalizer would be near impossible to actually equalize the sounds frequencies because first we would need proper speaker placement to direct the sound toward a listening position. The HomePod is omnidirectional so there isn't a static listening position. An example of the problem this causes would be having a large room with the HomePod near a wall/corner. Several of the horned tweeters would be blasting into wall/corner causing specific frequencies to be absorbed, transmitted, reflected, etc etc etc depending on the walls material. All 7 tweeters need to equalized individually and some will be vastly different than others. Interference caused by the reflection of the the same frequencies off the wall would make tweeter identification and adjustment near impossible.

While I think Apple could pull it off even a simple toggle to 'reduce bass' would have an effect on sound propagation. I do not think we will see anything more than that if we even see that.

 

[pup]

Per Google searches, HomePod sold 3 million units in its first 6 months of release (August 2018 datapoint) and another 1.6 million in Q4 of that year. And this past Christmas, HomePod sold 2.6 million units in Q4 (February 2020 datapoint).

So if you add up the 3.0M for the first 6 months and the 1.6M for Q4 and estimate that they sold 1.0M for Q3, the first year's sales of HomePod were 5.6M

For year 2 last year, the 2.6M units in Q4 were an increase of 62%. So if you take the 5.6M units from the first year and add 60% you're just shy of 8.0M units by the time we get to this past Christmas. But that anniversary includes the launch, so you'd say to cut that back. But it has a good amount of sales at $200 so you'd say to increase it. 5.6M + 8.0M = 14.6M

And those numbers are US sales. The HomePod is available in 7 other countries- UK, Japan, Taiwan, Australia, Canada, France, and Germany. So 12M is conservative. It's probably closer to 20M by now.

Again, source?

 

[boltjames]

Again, source?

Feel free to Google “HomePod unit sales”, it’s all there. Do the work yourself.

 

[inkahauts]

Bolt...

There are zero smart speakers I’d ever call audiophile quality. HomePod isn’t audiophile bookshelf speaker. It’s just not. Not by definition of what a book shelf speaker is.

Doesn’t mean it’s not a great speaker but it’s not the end all. You might even be able to make a value argument for it being the best of the good ones at its price. But don’t ever try and tell me it’s better than all pairs of higher quality bookshelf’s that would cost upwards of 500 or more for the speakers from a good company.

I’m guessing you think Bose is top notch as well...

It also wouldn’t surprise me if Apple had a massive amount of these built once because it was cheaper expecting supply to last years as it seems to have, and that the cost to manufacturer one of these is somewhere well under $100. I don’t see them ever losing money of them.

 

[HDFan]

the cost to manufacturer one of these is somewhere well under $100.

Actually it's $216:

HomePod said to cost Apple $216 to make, margin smaller than Amazon Echo & Google Home - 9to5Mac

The HomePod’s $349 price point was somewhat controversial last summer when Apple announced the device, especially in comparison to its...

9to5mac.com

although their number don't quite add up ...

 

[V_Man]

Again, I said HomePod is the best bookshelf speaker on the market for audiophiles who have converted to streaming. No one has giant listening rooms anymore with space for these massive speakers not to mention components. It’s not 1980.

It’s not a bookshelf speaker. It’s a small powered speaker. Far from audiophile standards.

many people enjoy music on full sized systems. Full range sound. Ability to reach reference levels. Dynamic range.

the HomePod is a great general background music box. I have one. Works great for background music.

But it is trash compared to a set of old Klipsch cornwalls and my B&K amp. Combined with a SVS sub. Nirvana. HomePod great for background music.
[automerge]1583265322[/automerge]

You, and others, have got to stop saying that.

With sales in the neighborhood of 4 million units per year, the HomePod generates $1.2 billion dollars in annual revenue. On a single product. Do you know how many billion dollar products there are in the world? Not many.

To put it in perspective, last year BMW sold 44,000 3 Series cars. That's $1.5 billion in revenue. All those cars, all those colors, all those configurations, all those leases, all those TV commercials, the entire 3 Series industry worldwide is only a hair larger than measly little HomePod which isn't available in all countries and quietly sits on a shelf with no advertising.

I agree at $199 they sell. That’s what they are worth.
[automerge]1583265372[/automerge]

Feel free to Google “HomePod unit sales”, it’s all there. Do the work yourself.

Rules require you to post your source.
[automerge]1583265536[/automerge]

Sure, but Apple isn't a mobile network, they aren't AT&T or Orange, they make no money from phone subscribers, they only make phone hardware.

When it comes to music, different story. Apple is both the hardware supplier (HomePod) and the network (Apple Music) so they can work short on the hardware and get fat and happy on the margins from the network subscriptions.

Point is, you can't look at HomePod in these convenient 'bubbles'. One that says "it doesn't have market share" and the other that says "Apple is losing money on it".

Apple Music has overtaken Spotify as the biggest streaming music platform in the USA due in part to HomePod and the 12+ million of them sold. There's your "market share" as its far more important to be the #1 streaming platform than to sell speakers.

If someone spends $300 on a HomePod they are most certainly going to be an Apple Music subscriber for 5+ years generating no less than $600 in streaming revenue. There's your "making money" as Apple is both the hardware supplier and the streaming network.

HomePod generates $1.2 billion dollars in revenue each year and it's helped propel Apple Music to the biggest streaming service in America. It's a smashing success.

If you say so. Lol
[automerge]1583265689[/automerge]
I have the feeling boltjames has never even heard a Mid range to Hi end stereo setup.
Yes it cost more than a HomePod, a lot more, but it sounds so better his claims are almost comical.

 

[Huddy]

HomePod inventory seems very low in the UK and discounted.

I really fancy picking one up, but the thought it being superseded at the next event this month is holding me back.

 

[pup]

The latest round of discounts definitely points to a replacement product around the corner. The question is whether Apple has a true replacement for the current HomePod or if they have something smaller that's designed around the $199 price point, which seems to be the sweet spot. They'll certainly have the latter, but to me it's 50/50 whether they'll have a higher end product to accompany it. But if they do, then I think it will be fair to say that Apple has decided on a long term commitment to home audio.

 

[V_Man]

Homepods sell out at $199. That’s the price they should be all times. Lose a little profit on HomePod and makes lots more on services.

 

[boltjames]

The latest round of discounts definitely points to a replacement product around the corner. The question is whether Apple has a true replacement for the current HomePod or if they have something smaller that's designed around the $199 price point, which seems to be the sweet spot. They'll certainly have the latter, but to me it's 50/50 whether they'll have a higher end product to accompany it. But if they do, then I think it will be fair to say that Apple has decided on a long term commitment to home audio.

It means nothing of the sort. Bose used to run a promotion on their Wave Radio 3x a year, it ran in steady production unchanged for 10 years.

Manufacturers run promotional events now and then. This doesn’t indicate anything other than that.

 

[Casey05]

It means nothing of the sort. Bose used to run a promotion on their Wave Radio 3x a year, it ran in steady production unchanged for 10 years.

Manufacturers run promotional events now and then. This doesn’t indicate anything other than that.

I tend to agree with this. There has been ZERO talk regarding new HomePod. We know there are the Tags, new iPhone, new iPad... with zero rumors regarding new HomePod.

 

[boltjames]

I tend to agree with this. There has been ZERO talk regarding new HomePod. We know there are the Tags, new iPhone, new iPad... with zero rumors regarding new HomePod.

Exactly.

It’s a billion dollar business. Think about that. One sku. Incredible.

HomePod is unquestionably one of the most successful consumer electronics items ever launched, perhaps #1 of all time. There is no need to change a thing.

 

[V_Man]

Exactly.

It’s a billion dollar business. Think about that. One sku. Incredible.

HomePod is unquestionably one of the most successful consumer electronics items ever launched, perhaps #1 of all time. There is no need to change a thing.

Lol. #1 of all time. Lol.

 

[pup]

Why do I have the feeling that botjames has a warehouse of home pods in jersey that he's desperate to get rid of?

 

[StumpyBloke]

Exactly.

It’s a billion dollar business. Think about that. One sku. Incredible.

HomePod is unquestionably one of the most successful consumer electronics items ever launched, perhaps #1 of all time. There is no need to change a thing.

I agree with you about the HomePod being a great piece of kit (however, audiophile it is not) and I also believe it to be in a reasonable success, but your statement about it being one of the most successful consumer electronic items ever seems an incredibly bold one to make and completely unsubstantiated. Where do you get that data from? I’m genuinely intrigued and interested to hear.

 

[boltjames]

Lol. #1 of all time. Lol.

Name another singular consumer electronics product that was a $1B a year business.

Not a category (VCR’s, Walkmen, Digital Cameras) but an individual product. Go.

And stick with CE. Traditional audio/video consumer electronics. No video games or cell phones.

 

[pup]

That’s a surprising number of qualifications you had to add, but I’ll kick off the list with pretty
much any iPod model.

...and also any other model of smart speaker. I mean, Amazon would only have to sell 5 million $50 Dots a quarter to hit that number, and they easily sell twice that amount, if not three times.