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I must be missing the point of these smart speakers. They're not truly portable, they can only be used to control connected devices, and I can use my phone or watch to set a timer or look up reference information.

There are plenty of great sounding rechargeable speakers on the market that will operate for hours on a single charge. I have four of them. I can take them outside or to another room while staying connected to the sound source. Two can be used as a speakerphone. I have one that I can strap onto my belt or bicycle handlebars and listen.
You’re speaking my language. It’s astonishing to me the rush people have made toward embracing these smart speakers like Echo, Dot and Home when 95% of their capabilities are redundant with the small, convenient device I already have with me all day, every day.

That said, I do think Apple’s approach is actually more relevant than these other devices. Combining cutting edge sound with easy access to a massive music library and Siri all in one package will be a huge upgrade in music availability and sound quality for a ton of people.
 
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Apple should make HomePods and Apple TVs into mesh nodes for wi fi network. Update the Time Capsule with mesh capabilities and suddenly you have a great mesh network covering your house.

Use spatial capabilities of the home pod, iCloud and bluetooth in home pods and apple TVs you could create an indoor location aware Siri for controlling your home. Example: "Hey Siri, turn on the TV", will turn on the TV in the room your inn, same with lights and other stuff.
 
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You stated the HomePod only works with iOS. The HomePod needs to be setup with an iOS device, however it does not only work with iOS.

Actually, I didn’t. Because it wasn’t me you originally quoted.

However, the person who you did originally quote was answering a question about what app was needed, and was it on Mac or iPhone. As the Home App is on iOS only, the statement it only works with iOS was correct.

You can stream content from any AirPlay device, yes, but you still need to own a compatible iOS device to setup and maintain an HomePod, ie, keep it working. You can’t do this with a Mac or another non-Apple device.
 
Example: "Hey Siri, turn on the TV", will turn on the TV in the room your inn, same with lights and other stuff.

Not to discredit what you said, just wanted to add that the example is actually possible due to the designated zones / rooms in HomeKit. All HomeKit devices are assigned to rooms, so too would the HomePod, and its control could be relative in situations of absent specifics. I.e., “Hey Siri turn off the TV” versus “Hey Siri turn off the livingroom TV”. In both situations the HomePod should work and know the context because of HomeKit rooms.
[doublepost=1517380362][/doublepost]With 3 tweeters dedicated for the wall reflective sound, 4 tweeters dedicated towards the forward sound, with left and right channels alternating among the 4 (first tweeter left channel, second tweeter right channel, third tweeter left channel, fourth tweeter right channel) ... in order to remove the sweet spot, while providing stereo sound, without discernible stereo separation.

I’m now thinking that is more probable to be what Apple did. Considering their desire to focus on audio quality, it makes less sense to me that they would merge left and right channels, for the sake of removing the sweet spot, when they could just do as I described.
 
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At $349 each, I don't think there would be many people getting two for STEREO sound. Whereas the Google home costs $130 and does a lot more. I am starting to wonder the hundreds if not thousands of dollars difference in Apple products these days is worth it. Apple has always been more expensive, maybe 5-20% back in the day, but now they are >100% in most product lines. I'm a lowly paid academic, I am getting priced out, unless there is a culture change in Apple, I am currently using the last Apple products I will own.
 
Also, I'm starting to again think that the 2nd HomePod is more about stereo separation / perceived stereo than actual stereo.

Where with two HomePods one will output purely left channel sound through the 4 front facing speakers, and the other will do the right channel. However, that would create a sweet spot based on a person's physical proximity to a HomePod. It also presents the problem of, "which HomePod gets the left channel, and which one gets the right (if the speakers are facing one another)? And what happens if the person turns around? The left would be the right and vice-versa."

So perhaps in the two HomePod situation, it makes more sense for each HomePod to output the left channel out of the two left speakers, and the right channel out of the two right speakers. What one would end up with is a checkerboard of sound (if the HomePods are facing one another, like the first on one side of the room and the second on the opposite side). Because the left channel on the first HomePod would meet with the right channel on the second HomePod, while the right channel on the first HomePod would meet with the left channel on the second HomePod.

That would in some sense mitigate the issue of a sweet spot due to dual channel overlap. Granted, it might present a rare situation where, if you're standing directly in the middle, depending on the direction your head is turned, you might be getting two left channels in both ears and not really hearing the right channel or vice-versa.

Theoretically that could work, considering that each HomePod can detect the placement of the other, to be able to balance each other. So perhaps if they are facing each other, it creates a checkerboard, but if they are side-by-side it does not, one gets the left channel, the other gets the right. -- Something like that might be a reason for the processing power of the HomePod. But that's all speculation, it might just be a dedicated right and left, where they don't care about a sweet spot. Though since HomePod can detect the space of a room, it might detect the position of people within the room. However, I think if it could do that, that would be one of the marketing things they'd say, and I don't recall them saying that.
 
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So apart from not having heard it and having no idea how good it is: One HomePod = beam forming. Sound doesn't seem to come from one direction. You can hear where instruments and voices are supposed to come from. It's not stereo, it's different. Nobody knows if it is as good as stereo, better, close or nowhere near.

Two HomePods = sound from separate speakers (aka stereo), plus beam forming. Should be better than stereo.
Beamforming doesn't work like that. You can't create precise directional control with a small speaker array as sound disperses in our atmosphere. I hate that term as it was originally used in reference to sensor arrays (which work totally differently) and implies that a speaker array can create a tight, directional cylinder of audio like a flashlight beam. The reality is the efficacy of the array in creating pattern control is directly related to the size of the array and the wavelength of the sound. The lower the frequency you want to steer, the larger your array must become. The narrower you want to go at any given frequency, the larger your array must become. TDA and phase filtering techniques like this have existed for years in professional and commercial installed audio, typically using arrays that are at a minimum 10' in length and even then they lack precise pattern control in the midband. The HomePod will not be capable of projecting multiple audio sources out into your room, an no-one who has actually heard the thing has made such a claim.
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Here’s another mono speaker:

View attachment 749266

Really dude? As a "charting sound engineer" I would hope you at least would have some understanding of the typical dispersion pattern of a dome tweeter, and immediately recognize that photo as complete bunk. "Beams of light aiming for the sky" bullpucky. If anything that waveguide would disperse the sound from those tweeters directly back into the listener straight ahead, but whatever...
 
People like this are bizarre. Imagine wanting devices you're not interested in to fail (Apple Watch thread, AirPods thread, full of these sort of people) just let people buy the devices they want to buy and stop being so negative about everything.

I will let them buy it, be sure of that. There's evidently so many "early adopters" who buy anything Apple spits out, regardless of the price. That's inherent consumerism. My problem with over expensive products. And sheep.
While I'm sure that in a couple of weeks this place is going to get filled with "I'm so happy with my HP, best smartspeaker ever" threads and posts, it's their first product in years that most people are justifiably sceptic about, not only in terms of price, but also in terms of service limitations and performance.

Apple Watch is great I'm sure, but it's expensive. Airpods are great too, but very expensive as well for what they do.
I'm sick of Apple ripping consumers a new one every time they put a "novel" product out, because they tend to wanna drive the market.
At least with the X and HomePod it does not seem so, and it should make them reconsider some things, that's all I said.
 
Glad that you stated that. Prior, when others called homepod a mono speaker, something in me died / sighed a little bit each time, lol. I think too many are focused on "one" HomePod, so one source, thus it must be "mono". But that's short-sighted / biased. The HomePod has a lot of processing power to be able to drive 8 speakers individually or independently and adapt. It would be more akin to a soundbar emitting different frequencies / channels (therefore actually producing stereo), than a single speaker.

Exactly - its not like Bose released a speaker that did all sorts of surround trickery, and people thanked them for dragging home audio back to the 20s with their single speaker "mono" setup.

I know people talk about Job's reality distortion field, but it often seems to work in reverse too, where people just start talking gibberish whenever Apple are involved.
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I will let them buy it, be sure of that. There's evidently so many "early adopters" who buy anything Apple spits out, regardless of the price. That's inherent consumerism. My problem with over expensive products. And sheep.
While I'm sure that in a couple of weeks this place is going to get filled with "I'm so happy with my HP, best smartspeaker ever" threads and posts, it's their first product in years that most people are justifiably sceptic about, not only in terms of price, but also in terms of service limitations and performance.

Apple Watch is great I'm sure, but it's expensive. Airpods are great too, but very expensive as well for what they do.
I'm sick of Apple ripping consumers a new one every time they put a "novel" product out, because they tend to wanna drive the market.
At least with the X and HomePod it does not seem so, and it should make them reconsider some things, that's all I said.

Ah, sheep, of course.

It couldn't possibly ever just be because I have owned other Apple products, and found them to be on the whole excellent, so it seems a safe bet that other products of theirs will be, on the whole, excellent too.

When people buy new cars of a particular brand, are they also sheep for being early adopters of a new model? What is it in particular about Apple that seems to have people trotting out this lazy, and kinda offensive, cliche time and time again?
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At $349 each, I don't think there would be many people getting two for STEREO sound. Whereas the Google home costs $130 and does a lot more. I am starting to wonder the hundreds if not thousands of dollars difference in Apple products these days is worth it. Apple has always been more expensive, maybe 5-20% back in the day, but now they are >100% in most product lines. I'm a lowly paid academic, I am getting priced out, unless there is a culture change in Apple, I am currently using the last Apple products I will own.

If the Google Home has far inferior sound, anything else that it does will be moot to a lot of people though.
 
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Eh? Am I missing something? I thought these types of single speakers have been around for a while from the likes of Sonos etc?

But suddenly everything is Apple’s fault again, and people who haven’t actually heard how the HP sounds are wanging on about stereo, even though the overwhelming consensus seems to be that the HP compares favourably to other single speakers in that price range?

It's apple's fault because they drive the industry, and after mono compatibility has been a completely non issue for a while and even their phone and tablets switched to stereo, Mono compatibility is again a stupid thing you need to worry about.

I'm wanging on about stereo because it's a different approach to mixing/mastering if you need to carry about mono compatibility, not because of how HP sounds. I don't care how it sounds, its a technical trend thing.

Many higher end speakers are sold individually. Even Sonos speakers (Apple's main competition at this price point) are sold that way.

HomePod is not a high end speaker, its an appliance, like a boombox...
And I don't know a single person who buys a SINGLE high-end speaker and sets it in his living room. They're sold separately because people often buy more than two.
They also have external amplifiers.
And external preamplifiers.
And so on.

Apparently you don't know how much good speakers cost (and typically do not come as a pair). And don't even get into great or excellent speakers because man, you can't afford the tweeter.
Actually I have Focal Twin 6 paired with JLAudio F112 in my studio.
My beryllium tweeters are pretty expensive.
Also had previously owned Jamo 707 for home hifi.
Granted, not 6 figure Focal Utopia territory or 5 figure Cantons territory, but still pretty damn good...

OMG, does no one understand what stereo is? You always need two separate speakers for true stereo. That’s what stereo is. Apple is no different than any company that’s ever sold speakers. Ever.

Again, i will go slowly:
Homepod is not a high-end speaker system but a home appliance. It's a modern equivalent of a boombox.
It's going to be widespread (more than high-end speaker systems), and most people will not buy it in stereo configuration because they don't know / don't care, meaning music mixing will again have to be crosschecked for mono compatibility, which is something I was hoping it's going to disappear with small devices such as iphone going stereo as well.
 
I don’t think it’s as vague as you think, and yes it’s my assumption based on Apple themselves saying you need 2 HomePods for stereo playback and Something else I thought up on my own just from looking at the design of the HomePod.

As we know it, the HomePod has 7 tweeters or speakers in it, going around the device in 360°.

1. If it did play sound in stereo, you would need a left and right channel. But for arguments sake, let’s say it does have a left and right channel.

2. How does it know which of the 7 speakers to use as left channel and right channel?

3. Ideally, you would want the same number of speakers on the left and right channels. This has 7 speakers.

4. Because the speaker is a 360° design how does the average consumer know where the left and right channels are?

5. Let’s assume people figure out where left and right channels are and want to sit or stand in the middle so they can hear both channels equally. There will be no sweet spot because the HomePod is 360° In design. At most 3 speakers will be facing the person in front of it.

6. How does one be in a sweet spot of a 7 speaker 2 channel system of only 3 speakers at a time is facing the person?

8. If this were stereo playback through 2 channels then multiple people around a single HomePod will not always hear the same things equally. Some songs play specific sound effects through the left and right channel.

9. Apple is able to achieve the sweet spot they claim by playing all sound through all the speakers and not splitting them into 2 channels or stereo. That’s why anywhere you stand around it sounds good.

The song “In and out of love” by Armin Van Buuren is a favorite of mine and it shows how well what stereo sound, sounds like. You can hear the effects being bounced back and forth from left to right. It’s a perfect example of stereo imaging. Best heard with headphones.

First, the HomePod does have a front and a back. The power cord is dangling from the back, and when you look at the top, there will be plus and minus volume buttons displayed, also hinting at the orientation.

Second, one of the headline features of HomePod is "spatial awareness", adapting itself to the room it is in. The easiest thing will be to determine on which side there's an obstacle or a wall in close proximity, which will probably be the side the consumer will consider the rear side. If there's equal space to all sides, it can still default to the power cord side being the rear side.

Third, one of the seven tweeters is facing the front. It would probably geht both channels. What do home theatre surround audio systems, which mostly have a center speaker facing the listener, behave when playing back stereo content? Just like that.
 
Not to discredit what you said, just wanted to add that the example is actually possible due to the designated zones / rooms in HomeKit. All HomeKit devices are assigned to rooms, so too would the HomePod, and its control could be relative in situations of absent specifics. I.e., “Hey Siri turn off the TV” versus “Hey Siri turn off the livingroom TV”. In both situations the HomePod should work and know the context because of HomeKit rooms.

That’s pretty cool, I didn’t know that. But it wouldn’t work with Apple Watch/iPhone or iPad since they don’t know which zone I’m in...unless by using Bluetooth and proximity they could figure that out.
 
Again, i will go slowly:
Homepod is not a high-end speaker system but a home appliance. It's a modern equivalent of a boombox.
It's going to be widespread (more than high-end speaker systems), and most people will not buy it in stereo configuration because they don't know / don't care, meaning music mixing will again have to be crosschecked for mono compatibility, which is something I was hoping it's going to disappear with small devices such as iphone going stereo as well.

Firstly, between Sonos and Bluetooth speakers, there are already millions upon millions of people already listening to music through a mono configuration. Even if HomePod is reasonably successful, it’s not going to move the needle in terms of single-speaker setups. That trend arrived half a decade ago, and with the popularity of portable speakers, it’s not going anywhere.

Secondly, and repeating what’s already been said, the HomePod isn’t a mono speaker in any useful definition the word. It’s doing fairly deep signal analysis on the source material. While Apple hasn’t said, and we can only guess, I can’t imagine with the level of processing sophistication going on that it’s not aware of two-channel audio and uses the information from the separate channels in creating its output. If that’s the case, the type of mono mixing you’re talking about is irrelevant. And even if that weren’t the case, the signal analysis still probably would obviate the need for special mono mixing.
 
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LOL - A mind of it's own? What does that mean? I ask because I always thought that was the whole selling point of the Nest. It manages the temp for you.

Studies show that keeping the temperature fairly stable in the winter/summer is better than cranking it way up and down which is what the Nest wanted to do. We have it set to manual adjustment now. It didn't seem very smart for a thermostat.
 
When they say "Balance the sound" do you think they mean proper stereo?

So the left channel plays just the left channel music and visa versa.
Those tracks from the 80's and 90's that use the effect of moving the sound across the room between the two channels
[doublepost=1517345428][/doublepost]Over the air updates....

Sorry, and how else would anyone have thought such a device would be updates in 2018?

Over the air like all other similar products at a fraction of the cost, and all phones, tablets etc etc....

Did they think we were all stupid enough to be thinking you had to plug a wire into it to update it?

does it have any ports in the first place?
 
Studies show that keeping the temperature fairly stable in the winter/summer is better than cranking it way up and down which is what the Nest wanted to do. We have it set to manual adjustment now. It didn't seem very smart for a thermostat.

I still have the 1st gen Nest in my house and love it. it learns your habits, senses when you are home, etc. In the fall and spring here in Buffalo where it can be 60 during the day and 30 at night, I have the Nest on heat/cool and it always maintains a comfortable climate without having to switch back and forth between AC and heat. Not sure if other thermostats do that, but I love it anyways.

I use my Google Home constantly. I wake up in the morning (with alarm from Google Home on bed stand) and tell it to set the Nest to 70 and turn on the lights. I then tell it to tell me about my day as I get ready. As foolish as it sounds, I haven't actually touched a light in my house in a couple years lol.

As well as the Google Home works at $130, I'm just not seeing people selling them off to buy a Homepod for 3x the amount. I suppose there are people who have held out on smart home devices for Apple's solution, but that price point plus the black cloud around Siri just spells failure to me for Apple.
 
Firstly, between Sonos and Bluetooth speakers, there are already millions upon millions of people already listening to music through a mono configuration. Even if HomePod is reasonably successful, it’s not going to move the needle in terms of single-speaker setups. That trend arrived half a decade ago, and with the popularity of portable speakers, it’s not going anywhere.

Secondly, and repeating what’s already been said, the HomePod isn’t a mono speaker in any useful definition the word. It’s doing fairly deep signal analysis on the source material. While Apple hasn’t said, and we can only guess, I can’t imagine with the level of processing sophistication going on that it’s not aware of two-channel audio and uses the information from the separate channels in creating its output. If that’s the case, the type of mono mixing you’re talking about is irrelevant. And even if that weren’t the case, the signal analysis still probably would obviate the need for special mono mixing.

Trend - not for home devices, mostly for portable crap speakers. this is intend to be a home device. Home devices are mostly if not exclusively stereo.

Second paragraph is not technical enough for any meaningful discussion sorry...

And it's not irrelevant. There's a limit to what DSP can do, and if two signals (in L/R) cancel each other out you either have to omit information on one channel (which brings a whole nother bag of issues) or you have to sum both channels so they can both come out from one speaker (it has only one mid/woofer).

So mono compatibility indeed is an issue and very relevant.
 
When people buy new cars of a particular brand, are they also sheep for being early adopters of a new model? What is it in particular about Apple that seems to have people trotting out this lazy, and kinda offensive, cliche time and time again?

Cars? When people buy ANY kind of overpriced product that offers the same as (or less than) competition without judgment or a critical view as consumers, dancing like muppets to newly created necessities "they did not know they needed", then of course, they are sheep.
 
First, the HomePod does have a front and a back. The power cord is dangling from the back, and when you look at the top, there will be plus and minus volume buttons displayed, also hinting at the orientation.

Second, one of the headline features of HomePod is "spatial awareness", adapting itself to the room it is in. The easiest thing will be to determine on which side there's an obstacle or a wall in close proximity, which will probably be the side the consumer will consider the rear side. If there's equal space to all sides, it can still default to the power cord side being the rear side.

Third, one of the seven tweeters is facing the front. It would probably geht both channels. What do home theatre surround audio systems, which mostly have a center speaker facing the listener, behave when playing back stereo content? Just like that.

I know the HomePod has a front and back, left and right side. You are assuming most people will have this close to a wall and use the touch control on top. Bad assumption.

You have me confused about the speaker facing front getting audio from both channels. You then referenced a home theater system center speaker, but that isn’t how a home theater system works. The audio that comes through a center speaker is not the same audio that is coded to play via the left and right channels.
 
I know the HomePod has a front and back, left and right side. You are assuming most people will have this close to a wall and use the touch control on top. Bad assumption.

You have me confused about the speaker facing front getting audio from both channels. You then referenced a home theater system center speaker, but that isn’t how a home theater system works. The audio that comes through a center speaker is not the same audio that is coded to play via the left and right channels.

Maybe my wording wasn't quite clear; I meant to reference a home theater system, laid out for 5.1 or 7.1 surround, when it is fed with standard 2-channel-audio instead of actual 5.1 or 7.1 audio. In that case, the 2 channels are distributed to the speakers on either side, with the center speaker getting a mix of both. Am I wrong?
 
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I think Apple really doesn’t understand the market for some of these products. When it came to streaming tv devices. Other manufacturers understood that what ppl wanted was an inexpensive way to stream Netflix and other services. I still do not think Apple has gotten that yet.

And when it comes to these portable speakers. Yes they may sell a certain amount of speakers to people who are willing to shell out $349 each. But once again, the market is more the digital cloud assistant. People want portability, low cost cloud assistants. This is what Google and Amazon understands. And what I think Apple fails to understand.
 
The equalizer thing is why I think it’s possible the vocals are just turned down in the back. I don’t actually believe that, but I think it’s possible.

The absence of a sweet spot is why I more so believe the stereo thing can be true. If HomePod is sitting in a corner, though it can measure the distance of the walls and increase the volume on left and right channels based on the distance of reflective walls, it would still create a sweet spot. Even if they are bouncing the left off many walls, and doing the same for the right, there are still places where either channel will be louder than the other.

— edit —

With 7 tweeters, 3 dedicated to the back, 4 directed towards the front, with two on the left and two on the right, a sweet spot will be created. But if the four are arranged, with left and right alternating, a sweet spot is less likely to exist. Furthermore, the HomePod wouldn’t need to balance left and right via reflections.

That would provide no discernible stereo separation, but, it would be stereo.


We can’t assume most people will place it by a wall with the cable facing back to the wall. Some people will place it on nightstands that is in a corner with the cable running at the backside of the night stand. Which would place the side of the speaker against the wall and not the back of the speaker.

Also everyone seems to be overlooking the fact that spatial awareness demonstrated the video sends a 360° sono like wave that measures the entire room. It’s not just being measured at the front and back. I think it’s safe to say if the side of the speaker and not the back was against the wall, the HomePod would be able to adjust the volume on that side of the speaker accordingly.

This brings be back to the audio being played in stereo on a single HomePod, it just doesn’t seem plausible. I’m not saying the HomePod cannot play stereo music, I’m saying it cannot playback stereo sound.

We will have to wait for a complete tear down to be absolutely sure, but I’ll say it again. Even Apple said you need 2 HomePods for stereo music.
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Maybe my wording wasn't quite clear; I meant to reference a home theater system, laid out for 5.1 or 7.1 surround, when it is fed with standard 2-channel-audio instead of actual 5.1 or 7.1 audio. In that case, the 2 channels are distributed to the speakers on either side, with the center speaker getting a mix of both. Am I wrong?

Correct, in a 5.1 or 7.1 system the center channel will get a mix of both left and right. But the HomePod with its 7 speakers isn’t designed like that. It’s designed to play music. Most music is recorded in stereo.

I’m going to be more realistic with how some people will place their HomePods in their home. A lot of people place their speakers in corners of rooms, putting either the left or right side of the speaker against the wall. The HomePod has a 360° spatial awareness which measures which sides are close to objects or walls and adjust all speakers accordingly. Because of this I believe what is perceived as left or right on a traditional speaker system does not apply to the HomePod. This changes what people says about it plays in stereo and on one side of the cable is the left channel while the other side is the right.

I’m not going to keep saying this over and over again. But Apple, the company that makes the HomePod says you need 2 to play music in stereo.
 
Cars? When people buy ANY kind of overpriced product that offers the same as (or less than) competition without judgment or a critical view as consumers, dancing like muppets to newly created necessities "they did not know they needed", then of course, they are sheep.

So how are you defining "overpriced"?

It seems churlish to argue that, for example, a BMW is overpriced because there are cheaper cars that offer the same, but for less money, ie they have four wheels and an engine and will get you from A to B.
 
We can’t assume most people will place it by a wall with the cable facing back to the wall.

Actually, I didn't consider or even imagine the cable to be the back. I actually imagined that the "back" is dynamically assigned based on position and proximity to walls. So, any three of the 7 speaker array could be the back. The other four would be the front, with left and right channels being emitted from every other speaker from the four. If the speaker is in the center of a room then it would adapt, considering that there's no closest wall for it to bounce sound off like demonstrated in the HomePod promotional materials.

Though, I'm genuinely curious, why does it seem more probable to you that they are using software or hardware to mix left and right channels in each speaker, instead of just outputting left in one speaker, right in the next, alternatingly?

Circuitry-wise that's relatively easy to implement. One need only wire multiple speakers to the left output, and another set to the right output, and then place the left and right in-between one another. I could do it using a headphone jack and spliced wires. I'm pretty sure Apple can do that more cheaply than it would cost to code software downmixing, or produce a downmixing hardware solution.
 
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