HONEST Question, NOT TROLLING about touch bar

[CaptRB]

Only thing I think it's useful for is calling Siri, and the finger print scanner. The latter really isn't a touchbar feature though, it just seamlessly blends into the touchbar.

The touchbar is gimmicky, but I still like it. It is pleasant. It isn't worse than the physical keys... but it's not really better either, if we're just talking productivity.

Apple won't admit that touchscreen is the way of the future, and updating the OS to accommodate a hybrid experience of touchscreen + keyboard + trackpad is the way to go. Some will disagree with me, but I think it's a matter of vision. As OS X stands, it's not particularly touchscreen friendly, that's for sure.

It's too soon to be critical of the Touch Bar. I can see plenty of ways it can be useful and it's useful when writing in Pages, for example. Also it appears like it will be useful for video editing.

Fingerprints on my screens is a big NO. I tolerate it on a iPad, but it's no fun if you like a clean clear display.


R.

 

[skids929]

Sorry I'm not going to be PC about this...it's a Apple forum!

I have a 2015 MBP. The screen is nice. The keyboard is poor. They've been a standard we just accepted, but they wobble, they clack, light leaks etc. The screen on the new model is incredible. Side by side the difference is easy to see in my photography work. This new model can actually work well enough outside in bright light, while last years model can't (had to buy a sun shield for it.). Bigger trackpad makes PP easier on the fly.
I don't care much about the speakers, but they DO sound better. The Touch Bar may indeed be a game changer, but we'll have to see how it pans out. For now I really like it. The machine is faster, along with the SSD. It can charge from a slim power pack, and the USB-C ports actually mean MORE connectivity options. Siri and Touch ID and the list of upgrades is REALLY LONG. And to top it off it even feels more rock solid than last years outgoing model, which was more like three years old.

It's not a matter of what the computer is worth. It's a matter of what I'M worth...and a few hundred bucks extra is certainly no big deal. Putting a value against these machines, while pretending they're mostly the same, is disingenuous.



R.

Like I said, this isn't about what people do with their Macs, it's about what people DO with their MONEY. You want to burn it on two similar performing computers, knock yourself out. I am not confronting you over it...You're a photographer I am sure you can find use for another laptop. Reality is a lot of people buy these and hold on to them for a long time. So hopefully that answers your question.

I have money to burn too, woopty do.. But I choose not to give it all to Apple for no good reason, I own enough of their products over many years and know full well when is the best time to upgrade. For me this was the right time, and I appreciate the the features over what I previously had. But if I had a 2015 I wouldn't feel the same way. A Touchbar and a few run of the mill upgrades to the 2016 model is not a good reason to run out and overpay for a laptop.

But you are obviously super excited about your laptop so congrats. Just try not to get anything on it.

 

[Cameron604]

It's too soon to be critical of the Touch Bar. I can see plenty of ways it can be useful and it's useful when writing in Pages, for example. Also it appears like it will be useful for video editing.

Fingerprints on my screens is a big NO. I tolerate it on a iPad, but it's no fun if you like a clean clear display.

R.

As soon as a product is released, you can be critical about it. All things considered, there's no roadmap laid out, no "near future" plans that anyone has provided. No one can reasonably say "Don't be critical, that major update is just around the corner and it will be amazing." The touchpad... it's just... there... and expensive... and an uncertainty.

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

Only thing I think it's useful for is calling Siri, and the finger print scanner. The latter really isn't a touchbar feature though, it just seamlessly blends into the touchbar.

The touchbar is gimmicky, but I still like it. It is pleasant. It isn't worse than the physical keys... but it's not really better either, if we're just talking productivity.

Apple won't admit that touchscreen is the way of the future, and updating the OS to accommodate a hybrid experience of touchscreen + keyboard + trackpad is the way to go. Some will disagree with me, but I think it's a matter of vision. As OS X stands, it's not particularly touchscreen friendly, that's for sure.

I cannot stress enough how much I do not want a touch screen computer, ergonomics/usefulness/UI arguments aside (Touching the screen adds nothing to my workflow), I do not want grubby fingerprints all over my screen! It's really annoying when you have even the slightest spec of dust on the screen when you're say editing green screen. I don't know if it's a shadow or dirt... So I already have to clean it regularly, don't want to make that an hourly task.

My biggest peeve though is when a bloody producer or PM comes up to my screen and goes "Oh, I like that", which pointing and touching whatever is on the screen, leaving a lovely fingerprint. This is followed by my 'death stare©', at which point they nearly always immediately try to wipe the screen and make it worse!

Whilst if they do add a touchscreen I can get by just not using it, I fear that it'll only lead to more people expecting to touch the thing.

Rant over

 

[xaqt93]

Well there ya go you stayed in the family. I thought you were going to say you got nothing or a Windows clunker at which point I would said you never wanted a Mac in the first place! Honestly though the TB isn't the reason to buy these new MBPs there are a lot of other neat features that make them worth looking at. But overall, I agree they DO NOT present a good value like the previous generation 15 inch.

I am Mac user no matter what. I love Mac OS and have used it since Tiger. I was honestly hoping the TB would take away a lot of annoying clicking that I have to do. For example, thee only thing that I found useful was sending my girl heart emojis because I send multiple at a time...having the TB was useful with that, but other then that, I found my self using the mouse more then anything. I love my Mac, but I am a lot more satisfied with the money that I have saved

 

[SVTM]

Volume, and backlight changes are faster.

How in the world is tapping the touchbar for it to come back online, holding down on the volume logo, sliding back and forth to adjust it, and then waiting for it to go away to access other controls quicker than just hitting the old volume or backlight keys?

 

[sn0warmy]

This morning I exchanged my non-touch bar 2.0 GHz 13" MBP for the 2.9GHz 13" MBP. My reasoning was that I was willing to pay a couple hundred more to better future proof myself with the much faster processor, better GPU and faster RAM. The touch bar was just a secondary bonus that I really didn't care about.

However, I quickly discovered that the finger print scanner is great and does make logging in/approving administrative system changes faster.

But I haven't found a single thing the touch bar does to make normal usage faster or more efficient. In fact, everything takes a bit longer to accomplish with the touch bar. With that said, I've actually quite enjoyed using it to do little things such as hitting "Send" on emails, switching browser tabs in Safari, emptying the trash can etc.

It isn't any faster to accomplish these tasks using the touch bar but it sure does make using the computer more enjoyable, in my opinion.

 

[jjiangweilan]

1. Finder: Move-to function. No control+C, control+V, No openning, No go-to. Just need to press 2 times on touch bar.
2. ScreenShot: No atual software needs to be opened. So east to use
3. switch between Input Source.
4. edit colors for highlighting on page or any text editor.
5. background control. Ex: control the music on Youtube while browsing the lyrics on another page.
6. the background control also comes with Xcode. I get direct access to capturing the view hierarchy in Xcode when I'm on simulator.
7. control the video progress bar.
8. Touch ID, which comes with touch bar


I can come up more if I think about it. I know there are many shortcuts which are actually faster and, of course, some functions I will still insist on shortcut, but there are functions only touch bar can provide, like screenshot with the paste options( to clipboard? to desktop?, to Picture folder). You can judge this on price and I do admit the price is crazy, but remember this is the first generation. Remember the first generation Mac equipped with Retina? And it seem like the more professional the app is, the more convince the touch bar can give you.

 

[sn0warmy]

2. ScreenShot: No atual software needs to be opened. So east to use

This is a game changer! For my work I use screenshots, of various types, on a daily basis. The new options with the touch bar are fantastic. Thank you for pointing this out.

 

[Cameron604]

This morning I exchanged my non-touch bar 2.0 GHz 13" MBP for the 2.9GHz 13" MBP. My reasoning was that I was willing to pay a couple hundred more to better future proof myself with the much faster processor, better GPU and faster RAM. The touch bar was just a secondary bonus that I really didn't care about.

However, I quickly discovered that the finger print scanner is great and does make logging in/approving administrative system changes faster.

But I haven't found a single thing the touch bar does to make normal usage faster or more efficient. In fact, everything takes a bit longer to accomplish with the touch bar. With that said, I've actually quite enjoyed using it to do little things such as hitting "Send" on emails, switching browser tabs in Safari, emptying the trash can etc.

It isn't any faster to accomplish these tasks using the touch bar but it sure does make using the computer more enjoyable, in my opinion.

Trust me when I say this: You didn't future proof yourself at all. The term "future proof" edges on just being a myth. If a computer works well for you today, then it will work well for you into the near future (3 years), unless if your needs change drastically (ex. profession change, or sale of your main desktop).

The non-TB 2016 MBP will last just as many years, doing the same tasks, at maybe 5-10% slower speed.

 

[sn0warmy]

Trust me when I say this: You didn't future proof yourself at all. The term "future proof" edges on just being a myth. If a computer works well for you today, then it will work well for you into the near future (3 years), unless if your needs change drastically (ex. profession change, or sale of your main desktop).

The non-TB 2016 MBP will last just as many years, doing the same tasks, at maybe 5-10% slower speed.

Solid point. I usually avoid the term "future proofing" myself. And I should have worded it better. The point I truly meant to make was that I wanted to pay a little extra to get into a machine with specs that better compete with the mid-2015, 2.2GHz i7, 15" MBP I was replacing, while giving me a machine with a much smaller footprint. Going from that machine to the non-touch bar MBP was more of a downgrade than I should have made. Going to the 2.9GHz 13" was a better choice as it was closer to a lateral move for my usage, while allowing me to get a smaller machine.

 

[montanaco]

How in the world is tapping the touchbar for it to come back online, holding down on the volume logo, sliding back and forth to adjust it, and then waiting for it to go away to access other controls quicker than just hitting the old volume or backlight keys?

Because you don't tap it. You hold and drag. Which means you can change the setting however fast you can move your finger. Which is much quicker than pressing and holding a key. It's much more intuitive than you give it credit. Yes, you can tap the volume button, then touch and drag. But for anyone who doesn't know, you can just press and drag right from the button itself before a dialogue opens up.

 

[SVTM]

Because you don't tap it. You hold and drag. Which means you can change the setting however fast you can move your finger. Which is much quicker than pressing and holding a key. It's much more intuitive than you give it credit. Yes, you can tap the volume button, then touch and drag. But for anyone who doesn't know, you can just press and drag right from the button itself before a dialogue opens up.

Didn't quite read my post did ya. "Tapping the touchbar for it to come back online, holding down on the volume logo, sliding back and forth to adjust it, and then waiting for it to go away to access other controls". You can't avoid the steps to get the menu open and closed so your point is irrelevant, a previous MBP would already be done by the time you had the volume menu open and it would already be adjusting brightness before you got the menu closed. The only other option you have to match the speed of previous MBPs is to turn on the expanded control strip, but even then you have to wake the touchbar so it slightly slower. I was one of the first people to get a 2016 15" and I've had it for a month now, making these adjustment is not in anyway quicker and if you believe they are you must be wearing your Apple rose gold tinted glasses.

 

[montanaco]

Didn't quite read my post did ya. "Tapping the touchbar for it to come back online, holding down on the volume logo, sliding back and forth to adjust it, and then waiting for it to go away to access other controls". You can't avoid the steps to get the menu open and closed so your point is irrelevant, a previous MBP would already be done by the time you had the volume menu open and it would already be adjusting brightness before you got the menu closed. The only other option you have to match the speed of previous MBPs is to turn on the expanded control strip, but even then you have to wake the touchbar so it slightly slower. I was one of the first people to get a 2016 15" and I've had it for a month now, making these adjustment is not in anyway quicker and if you believe they are you must be wearing your Apple rose gold tinted glasses.

Lol I've also had the Macbook for a month now, and having upgraded from a 2011 Macbook Pro I can definitely say its objectively faster using the touchbar. I don't really understand your point of having to wait for your Touch bar to wake--if you are using your computer it's already awake. I think the Touch bar is slower if you want to just raise the volume or brightness up or down by one or two tick marks sure, but for any other change it's going to be faster with the Touch bar.

 

[SVTM]

Lol I've also had the Macbook for a month now, and having upgraded from a 2011 Macbook Pro I can definitely say its objectively faster using the touchbar. I don't really understand your point of having to wait for your Touch bar to wake--if you are using your computer it's already awake. I think the Touch bar is slower if you want to just raise the volume or brightness up or down by one or two tick marks sure, but for any other change it's going to be faster with the Touch bar.

Not really a matter of whether or not you objectively think its faster because it simply isn't. My point of having to wake it? When are you mostly adjusting volume? When watching a video, listening to music, and even when editing in FCP. What happens when you do that? Oh the touchbar goes to sleep? So a majority of the time you will have to wake it.

"Slower if you want to just raise the volume or brightness up or down by one or two tick marks sure". How often do you completely turn your backlight off or all the way up? Most people normally make a slight quick adjustment, not turn it all up or all down, and the same could be said for volume.

 

[montanaco]

Not really a matter of whether or not you objectively think its faster because it simply isn't. My point of having to wake it? When are you mostly adjusting volume? When watching a video, listening to music, and even when editing in FCP. What happens when you do that? Oh the touchbar goes to sleep? So a majority of the time you will have to wake it.

"Slower if you want to just raise the volume or brightness up or down by one or two tick marks sure". How often do you completely turn your backlight off or all the way up? Most people normally make a slight quick adjustment, not turn it all up or all down, and the same could be said for volume.

I don't really care to defend the Touch Bar with the same amount of energy as you use against it so I'll leave it at this--for me, its faster and it's not a competition. I constantly change the volume and brightness and never by a few ticks. The Touch bar rarely is off for me, unless I am at home watching Youtube, in which case the I don't need change any settings. I'm sorry the Touch bar is so useless to you, because I have thoroughly enjoyed my time with it. Haha, though I am curious as to how the Touch bar is falling asleep during FCP usage, because you can't be doing much editing if the Touch Bar is asleep since any key or trackpad touch wakes it...

 

[xraydoc]

Didn't quite read my post did ya. "Tapping the touchbar for it to come back online, holding down on the volume logo, sliding back and forth to adjust it, and then waiting for it to go away to access other controls". You can't avoid the steps to get the menu open and closed so your point is irrelevant, a previous MBP would already be done by the time you had the volume menu open and it would already be adjusting brightness before you got the menu closed. The only other option you have to match the speed of previous MBPs is to turn on the expanded control strip, but even then you have to wake the touchbar so it slightly slower. I was one of the first people to get a 2016 15" and I've had it for a month now, making these adjustment is not in anyway quicker and if you believe they are you must be wearing your Apple rose gold tinted glasses.

One full second of waiting for the touch bar brightness slider to disappear and return to the app's touch bar display is too long for you?

And not seeing the one second delay as troublesome means we're wearing Apple rose gold tinted glasses?

Wow. You must be so busy and your hands flying over the keyboard so fast that the one second pause while waiting for the touch bar brightness slider to close results in a tremendous loss of income and productivity. Wish I had your amazing job. /s

Not sure the touch bar is supposed to be faster for brightness, volume, etc. But it does add functionality in to the same space that otherwise didn't exist before. If it does nothing for you, then so be it. Set it to display the traditional control strip and call it a day. Function is now exactly like it was on older machines. But I reject the sentiment that it somehow takes away functionality.

Besides, instead of taping 8 times to changes the volume or brightness to where I want, I touch my finger to the brightness icon or the speaker icon, slide my finger and release. So essentially one motion instead of a bunch of button presses.

 

[daijholt]

What does the touch bar do that makes it FASTER and EASIER than using the actual mouse pointer with the trackpad when performing an operation? Right now after all the reviews and impressions I've seen and read it seems like only scrubbing through something seems to be better used with the touch bar. Everything else looks more cumbersome

The Touch Bar, right now, is a lot like 3dtouch was when it first landed. Support isn't there yet, so it's limited in its usefulness. Once developers jump on board though, and Apple expands its capabilities with macOS 10.13 (like they did with 3dT in iOS 10) it'll be far more beneficial.

I bought the non-TB Pro personally, as I don't feel macOS development happens nearly as fast as iOS, so it'll take a while to get integrated fully by the community and by then I'll be upgrading again.

 

[jjjoseph]

Aside from the arguments about the physical movements associated with changing volume on touch bar versus a mouse.. The actual act of going to use the touchbar, or the motion to interact with the touchbar, I found slow and awkward. Having to look down at the keyboard, then moving my hards from their typing resting place to above the keyboard, i found super annoying. Also if their was an app that used the touchbar, I can't rest my hards up there.. If I where to use the touchbar for Final Cut Pro or Adobe CC or anything else, for more than a few seconds, I have to hold my arms up while I interact with the touchbar. Its completely uncomfortable and feels awkward and un-natural.

You get used to the actions of typing and using the touchpad, then you move your hard up to slide something back and forth for a second, then back to where they where before, OK, sure, kinda gimmicky in my option, but a virtual volume replacement, totally fine.

BUT what if you actually use the touchbar for hours at a time, moving your finger back and forth on that little strip to save SOO MUCH time how does that feel? Its awkward and Carpal Tunnel waiting to happen.

I think a lot of people who love the touchbar are forcing themselves to use it to make Tim Cook happy, I think he's a little depressed about the new launch and everyone is like "No Tim, Don't Cry, its great.. Saves me so much time. Its a great feature. I swear. I love it.. No i'm not lying. Its totally.. totally great.. I.. Save... So.. Much.. Time.. Like tons.. Just tons.. Tim seriously, stop crying.. its great."

 

[thesaint024]

Not really a matter of whether or not you objectively think its faster because it simply isn't. My point of having to wake it? When are you mostly adjusting volume? When watching a video, listening to music, and even when editing in FCP. What happens when you do that? Oh the touchbar goes to sleep? So a majority of the time you will have to wake it.

"Slower if you want to just raise the volume or brightness up or down by one or two tick marks sure". How often do you completely turn your backlight off or all the way up? Most people normally make a slight quick adjustment, not turn it all up or all down, and the same could be said for volume.

You don't wait for it to wake, the key is there even if it doesn't show on the tb. I know where my volume and brightness buttons are, even when the tb is off. I simply put my finger where they should be and it works the same. The reason this is faster/better is like audio analog volume controls. Knobs are always better for speed and precision than tapping a button 10 times or holding it waiting for it to stop. It's just more intuitive to adjust gradually as opposed to digitally punching two buttons up or down. No, this is not a HUGE deal, but it's definitely a plus, not a downside. I would not buy a computer simply for this reason, but it's nice. Just like I wouldn't buy a Mac just because the computer is so well balanced. But it's these little details that make it nicer than using something else.

Nevertheless, no one should be able to make an rational argument that this is simply a gimmick. Unless you can see the future and know extent of developers' creativity, you're just being close minded. The jury's still out since no one has even had a chance to release any tb enhancements. You can hate not having physical keys. That is a strong preference that just is. But outside of that we don't really know how far this touchbar thing can go. Touch screens have been around for years, and the PC manufacturers and MS are still stumbling on how to make it really integrate with people's workflows. I stopped using touchscreen when I had one because it never added anything for me. I'm not writing off touch screens either. If someone like Apple went touchscreen, they might think user first before technology and find a way for it to truly be useful. Time will tell.
[doublepost=1481569972][/doublepost]

Aside from the arguments about the physical movements associated with changing volume on touch bar versus a mouse.. The actual act of going to use the touchbar, or the motion to interact with the touchbar, I found slow and awkward. Having to look down at the keyboard, then moving my hards from their typing resting place to above the keyboard, i found super annoying. Also if their was an app that used the touchbar, I can't rest my hards up there.. If I where to use the touchbar for Final Cut Pro or Adobe CC or anything else, for more than a few seconds, I have to hold my arms up while I interact with the touchbar. Its completely uncomfortable and feels awkward and un-natural.

You get used to the actions of typing and using the touchpad, then you move your hard up to slide something back and forth for a second, then back to where they where before, OK, sure, kinda gimmicky in my option, but a virtual volume replacement, totally fine.

BUT what if you actually use the touchbar for hours at a time, moving your finger back and forth on that little strip to save SOO MUCH time how does that feel? Its awkward and Carpal Tunnel waiting to happen.

I think a lot of people who love the touchbar are forcing themselves to use it to make Tim Cook happy, I think he's a little depressed about the new launch and everyone is like "No Tim, Don't Cry, its great.. Saves me so much time. Its a great feature. I swear. I love it.. No i'm not lying. Its totally.. totally great.. I.. Save... So.. Much.. Time.. Like tons.. Just tons.. Tim seriously, stop crying.. its great."

WTF, carpel tunnel? This is a stretch. Why are some people trying so hard to hate it? I don't love it yet, I am just waiting to see. If you bought the MBP for the touchbar alone, than that wasn't wise since we don't know what's to come at this point. I like my MBP for other reasons, plus there is all this potential for the tb. If it were just as useful as it is to me today (fast lock and unlock) I'd be perfectly content with the touchbar. If you hate it for some reason, it's just a row of function keys. That's nothing to get worked up about is it? Who ever gave much thought to the function keys. I actually use them regularly, but this new fangled tech hasn't slowed me down. I'd rather have potential there than just... function keys.
[doublepost=1481570249][/doublepost]Seriously, why is the touchbar even a hot topic of debate? It should generate excitement of potential if anything. Who cares at this point? Loss of physical keys will be devastating for some, like trading a Blackberry for an iPhone. But everyone seems to have adopted ok. It's like starting a thread on the placement of the usb ports (too close to each other for me) and debating how great and how bad it is. I wouldn't discuss it for more than 5 seconds.

 

[jjjoseph]

WTF, carpel tunnel? This is a stretch. Why are some people trying so hard to hate it? I don't love it yet, I am just waiting to see. If you bought the MBP for the touchbar alone, than that wasn't wise since we don't know what's to come at this point.

If I use the touchbar for anything other than a few seconds of interaction, I have to lay my wrist and arm on the keyboard of the computer, which is not great... If I don't want a bunch of random keys being typed I have to hold my arms up and let my wrists dangle to interact with the touchbar and not touch the keyboard. Its very very awkward.

 

[montanaco]

If I use the touchbar for anything other than a few seconds of interaction, I have to lay my wrist and arm on the keyboard of the computer, which is not great... If I don't want a bunch of random keys being typed I have to hold my arms up and let my wrists dangle to interact with the touchbar and not touch the keyboard. Its very very awkward.

Wouldn't you feel the same level of awkwardness using the traditional function keys though? I don't see how it's any different. And laying your arm on the keyboard seems like a hyperbole lol.

 

[thesaint024]

If I use the touchbar for anything other than a few seconds of interaction, I have to lay my wrist and arm on the keyboard of the computer, which is not great... If I don't want a bunch of random keys being typed I have to hold my arms up and let my wrists dangle to interact with the touchbar and not touch the keyboard. Its very very awkward.

Hmm, I just did a test of my very average sized hands. I can easily rest my palms the same way I rest them when I type. Not sure how long you would be up at the touchbar anyway. I wasn't regularly playing with the function keys for minutes at a time before the touchbar. It sounds like you'd rather not have any potential functionality over the touchbar? You could just opt not to use it since they are all enhancements, and not requirements to use the touchbar for long periods of time. Now a touch SCREEN has real awkwardness potential. Lifting your whole arm up for sustained periods will be uncomfortable to say the least. The touchbar is in the same location keys have traditionally been in.

 

[jjjoseph]

Hmm, I just did a test of my very average sized hands. I can easily rest my palms the same way I rest them when I type. Not sure how long you would be up at the touchbar anyway. I wasn't regularly playing with the function keys for minutes at a time before the touchbar. It sounds like you'd rather not have any potential functionality over the touchbar? You could just opt not to use it since they are all enhancements, and not requirements to use the touchbar for long periods of time. Now a touch SCREEN has real awkwardness potential. Lifting your whole arm up for sustained periods will be uncomfortable to say the least. The touchbar is in the same location keys have traditionally been in.

If you read back, I wasn't talking about the traditional keys, using the touchbar the way you would the function keys. I was talking about consistent interaction, like how the "HELLO AGAIN" presentation showcased. Where I am actively using a programs features, in Final Cut Pro X and Logic Pro X. Im not talking about the replaced volume or brightness controls.. I'm talking about using the touchbar for hours at a time.

 

[raqball]

The Touch Bar, right now, is a lot like 3dtouch was when it first landed. Support isn't there yet, so it's limited in its usefulness. Once developers jump on board though, and Apple expands its capabilities with macOS 10.13 (like they did with 3dT in iOS 10) it'll be far more beneficial.

I bought the non-TB Pro personally, as I don't feel macOS development happens nearly as fast as iOS, so it'll take a while to get integrated fully by the community and by then I'll be upgrading again.

Agree.. I am in the don't see the usefulness and practicality of it camp..

I have the TB version (for now) and I'd, at this point, say it's pure gimmick for my daily use. I might end up exchanging it because my TB unit also has battery, screen glitches, and TB glitch issues. If I do end up exchanging it, it will be for the nTB version..