How Apple will charge a premium for the Space Black Stainless Steel Watch

Piggie

macrumors G3
Feb 23, 2010
8,286
2,471
No what I'm saying is the watch will come with the band YOU CHOOSE. Apple's not going to throw the sport band in the box and if you want something different you buy it separately (essentially making you pay for two bands). If someone wants a SS watch with milanese loop that's what they'll order and that's what they'll get. Of course the prices will be different depending on which band you chose but the band will be your choice.
But they are not, as you put it "Throwing it in the box"

The cost of it (in our scenario) is already covered by the price of the watch.

If you wish to see it this way.

Sports watch = £330
Rubber strap = $19
Luxury strap = $200

The LEAST you can pay is £349, which includes the cost of the watch body AND the strap.
It's not marketed that way, but that's how it is.

You then pay an additional $200 for the luxury strap.

So why should they then take away the rubber strap as that was already included in the price of the watch at $349

You are not being given anything for free.
You ARE paying for both the rubber strap and the luxury strap.

It's just not broken down that way on the price sticker, which is $349 with the rubber strap.
 

Rogifan

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2011
20,661
22,370
You select the body you want.
This by default comes with the rubber strap for that price.

You can then go into the "customisation" area and select, for an additional cost, to pick a more expensive strap.

But you can't buy it without at least the basic default rubber strap

I think we can all probably accept that this is a realistic way to handle it and keep customer happy.

The only thing really up for debate would be. If you DID select a more expensive strap, would you still get the default strap, or would you lose that the moment you selected a different strap.
I can see this being the case where by 'default' it means the least expensive/base option. But that's different than saying every watch comes with a rubber band even you chose a more expensive strap. Because that would kill sales of more expensive straps. My guess is you chose a collection, choose a size, choose a band and then you're quoted a price.
 

Piggie

macrumors G3
Feb 23, 2010
8,286
2,471
I can see this being the case where by 'default' it means the least expensive/base option. But that's different than saying every watch comes with a rubber band even you chose a more expensive strap. Because that would kill sales of more expensive straps. My guess is you chose a collection, choose a size, choose a band and then you're quoted a price.
Whilst I would like to think I'm right (for the sake of customers)

I think, knowing Apple you are probably right, and the moment you select an optional more expensive strap, you will then lose the default rubber strap, and will only receive your luxury strap.

As I explained, this will make it more difficult for customers who do this, when they come to upgrade. But as you say Apple don't care about that.
So you are probably right.

For the sake of customers I hope you are wrong though :)
 

Rogifan

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2011
20,661
22,370
But they are not, as you put it "Throwing it in the box"

The cost of it (in our scenario) is already covered by the price of the watch.

If you wish to see it this way.

Sports watch = £330
Rubber strap = $19
Luxury strap = $200

The LEAST you can pay is £349, which includes the cost of the watch body AND the strap.
It's not marketed that way, but that's how it is.

You then pay an additional $200 for the luxury strap.

So why should they then take away the rubber strap as that was already included in the price of the watch at $349

You are not being given anything for free.
You ARE paying for both the rubber strap and the luxury strap.

It's just not broken down that way on the price sticker, which is $349 with the rubber strap.
What I mean by throwing it in the box is NOT that the band is free but if the watch comes with it by default how many people will chose to pay for another band vs just using the default band? Using your scenario I would be paying $549 for the sport watch with luxury band. Under my scenario I would be paying $530. But if, as I suspect, many decided the sport band was "good enough" Apple would be losing out on $200 for the luxury band. Because even if the sport band isn't "free" the fact that it comes with the watch would probably make people think twice about getting another band.

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Whilst I would like to think I'm right (for the sake of customers)

I think, knowing Apple you are probably right, and the moment you select an optional more expensive strap, you will then lose the default rubber strap, and will only receive your luxury strap.

As I explained, this will make it more difficult for customers who do this, when they come to upgrade. But as you say Apple don't care about that.
So you are probably right.

For the sake of customers I hope you are wrong though :)
We have no idea how Apple is going to handle upgrades or how frequently the product will be refreshed. But I don't see what's so complicated about you sell/trade-in your old watch and get a new one. How is that any different than what you do with any other Apple product?
 

Piggie

macrumors G3
Feb 23, 2010
8,286
2,471
We have no idea how Apple is going to handle upgrades or how frequently the product will be refreshed. But I don't see what's so complicated about you sell/trade-in your old watch and get a new one. How is that any different than what you do with any other Apple product?
Ok, let me TRY an explain this a third time :)

There is a BIG difference with this type of product, as a strap is a necessary item for a watch to function as a watch.
Unlike a case or a add on keyboard for a iPad or iPhone, a strap is a MUST have really.

So, you buy the watch body you want.
You buy the luxury expensive strap you want, that you hope will be an investment that will last you many watches hopefully.

A year later, the new watch comes out, so you wish to sell yours privately to get the best price.

But oh dear. Now you have a problem don't you....

the only strap you have (in your scenario) is the luxury one you want to keep.

So, your only options for your private sale is, trying to sell the watch with no strap to someone (which you can probably do, but may put off many buyers as they want a strap)
Or you have to sell your luxury strap for a loss also, and buy another luxury strap with your new watch.

If you had a rubber strap, then no problem, you'd just remove your luxury strap and fit the rubber strap for your easy private sale.

Only other option will be, go back to an Apple store, tell them you already have a nice strap from last year, and this year just want the body only.
If they do this, then they can give you a low trade in price for your old watch body.
 

Tycho24

Suspended
Aug 29, 2014
2,072
1,376
Florida
No what I'm saying is the watch will come with the band YOU CHOOSE. Apple's not going to throw the sport band in the box and if you want something different you buy it separately (essentially making you pay for two bands). If someone wants a SS watch with milanese loop that's what they'll order and that's what they'll get. Of course the prices will be different depending on which band you chose but the band will be your choice.
I respect you a lot and agree with your posts almost 100% of the time. However, if you're saying that when Tim said "starts at $350", you think he meant " the body of this watch starts at $350, plus an additional cost for a band... which is not included in the price, unlike any other wristwatch ever sold, from Timex to Rolex" I have to encourage you to rethink that position. That is ludicrous. I imagine it will go something like this: bottom model $350 with free band, $400 with tier 1 premium band, $450 with tier 2 premium band... etc. Maybe something like that? Not precisely sure. The only thing I feel in my heart certain of is that there will NOT be an additional fee above the cost of the Watch if you take the basic band... ONLY if you take the premium band.
 

Rogifan

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2011
20,661
22,370
I respect you a lot and agree with your posts almost 100% of the time. However, if you're saying that when Tim said "starts at $350", you think he meant " the body of this watch starts at $350, plus an additional cost for a band... which is not included in the price, unlike any other wristwatch ever sold, from Timex to Rolex" I have to encourage you to rethink that position. That is ludicrous. I imagine it will go something like this: bottom model $350 with free band, $400 with tier 1 premium band, $450 with tier 2 premium band... etc. Maybe something like that? Not precisely sure. The only thing I feel in my heart certain of is that there will NOT be an additional fee above the cost of the Watch if you take the basic band... ONLY if you take the premium band.
No I think we're misunderstanding each other. I have no doubt that $349 is the price of the sport watch with sport band. And the cheapest SS watch will be one with a sport band. But I think the watch will come with ONE band (of your choosing) unless you choose to order more. I don't think Apple is going to make you pay for a sport band on top of any other band you want.
 

Rogifan

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2011
20,661
22,370
Ok, let me TRY an explain this a third time :)

TL;DR
If you're that concerned about resale you're free to buy a rubber band along with another band at the time of purchase and stick it in a drawer until you're ready to sell the watch. But in no way should Apple be forcing everyone to pay for a sport band whether they want one or not. And unless they're eating the cost of the rubber band that's what they'd be doing.

Apple's website focuses a lot on the bands. Jony Ive focused on them in the product intro video. Apple is not treating them like their $79 in-ear headphones that they never talk about or market. Apple doesn't care about selling you more expensive headphones with iPhones/iPods so they throw the $29 EarPods in the box. Apple definitely wants people buying the nicer Watch bands. Making someone pay for a rubber band whether they want one or not isn't going to drive sales of the higher end bands.
 

Tycho24

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Aug 29, 2014
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No I think we're misunderstanding each other. I have no doubt that $349 is the price of the sport watch with sport band. And the cheapest SS watch will be one with a sport band. But I think the watch will come with ONE band (of your choosing) unless you choose to order more. I don't think Apple is going to make you pay for a sport band on top of any other band you want.
Lol, yes!!! We are in agreement. :)
I do believe that if you purchase one to start with, with ONLY a premium band, there will NOT be an additional sport band included.

Sorted. ;0)
 

Piggie

macrumors G3
Feb 23, 2010
8,286
2,471
If you're that concerned

TL;DR
Yawn.

Shame you have such low opinions of Apple
And such low respect for their luxury straps.


All you are now saying is that people won't want a strap better than the rubber one.
Shame you have such a low opinion of the quality of Apple's more expensive straps, or low opinion of the public.

In your world, if you give everyone a $1 burger, then no one will want to pay more to eat in a restaurant.
 

Night Spring

macrumors G5
Jul 17, 2008
13,064
5,084
If you're that concerned about resale you're free to buy a rubber band along with another band at the time of purchase and stick it in a drawer until you're ready to sell the watch. But in no way should Apple be forcing everyone to pay for a sport band whether they want one or not. And unless they're eating the cost of the rubber band that's what they'd be doing.
But that is precisely what they do with earpods for iPhones. You get a earpod whether you want one or not. There is no option for getting an iPhone without the earpods and paying, say, $20 less. Since I never use those earpods, Apple is forcing me to pay for the earpods with each iPhone, or they are eating their cost. Why wouldn't the rubber strap be the same?

And considering Apple now owns Beats, I think they should care whether people buy better headphones or not.
 

Night Spring

macrumors G5
Jul 17, 2008
13,064
5,084
I don't think we can compare this to iPhones. I think there's infinitely more people that will pay for a higher end watch band than would pay for more expensive headphones. You throw a sport band in the box and how many people will say "good enough" and never buy a different band? My guess is a lot. I doubt Apple went through the trouble of creating these high end bands (and hiring all these fashion execs, the latest of which is someone from Burberry) if every watch is going to come with a rubber band.
Actually, I think with the band, even if Apple did throw a sport band in the box, many people will still buy a more premium band. Because unlike the earphones, it is something you wear all day, and it is a fashion thing. You would want a nicer band, if, for instance, you were going out to a fancy dinner.
 

Rogifan

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2011
20,661
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But that is precisely what they do with earpods for iPhones. You get a earpod whether you want one or not. There is no option for getting an iPhone without the earpods and paying, say, $20 less. Since I never use those earpods, Apple is forcing me to pay for the earpods with each iPhone, or they are eating their cost. Why wouldn't the rubber strap be the same?

And considering Apple now owns Beats, I think they should care whether people buy better headphones or not.
Hey I don't use EarPods so Apple's making me pay for them too. :)
 

Rogifan

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2011
20,661
22,370
Actually, I think with the band, even if Apple did throw a sport band in the box, many people will still buy a more premium band. Because unlike the earphones, it is something you wear all day, and it is a fashion thing. You would want a nicer band, if, for instance, you were going out to a fancy dinner.
Maybe. I just don't think we can view the watch the same way view iPhones. I think even though Apple sells EarPods on their own they were designed to be sold with iPhones and iPod touches. I don't think the fluoroelastomer Watch band was designed to be the band that comes in the box. I think it was designed for the sport collection as a lightweight band for when you're wearing the watch while your you're doing sports or fitness activities. Apple makes a point of saying its sweat and chemical resistant. Perhaps the inclusion in the other collections was more about Apple wanting to be able to hit a certain "starts at" price point.
 

cmChimera

macrumors 68040
Feb 12, 2010
3,911
2,620
You throw a sport band in the box and how many people will say "good enough"
I don't think many people that are in the market for a leather band or stainless steel link band is going to look at the sport strap and say "good enough", particularly with all the price speculations we're seeing.
 
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Rogifan

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2011
20,661
22,370
I don' think many people that are in the market for a leather band or stainless steel link band is not going to look at the sport strap and say "good enough", particularly with all the price speculations we're seeing.
Right so no point in selling them a fluoroelastomer band.
 

Piggie

macrumors G3
Feb 23, 2010
8,286
2,471
Wonder how hard it will be to sell your old watch with no band in a year or two's time to a private individual.

Seems there may be a lot of private sales with no bands up for sale if you get your way.

Probably make it a little harder as the new buyer of your watch is going to have to buy, either new or second hand, a strap to fit it before they can use the watch they buy from you.

Unless of course you decide you are going to sell the only band you have with it.
Or buy a new cheap band to fit onto your old watch before putting it up for sale.
 

Rogifan

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2011
20,661
22,370
Wonder how hard it will be to sell your old watch with no band in a year or two's time to a private individual.

Seems there may be a lot of private sales with no bands up for sale if you get your way.

Probably make it a little harder as the new buyer of your watch is going to have to buy, either new or second hand, a strap to fit it before they can use the watch they buy from you.

Unless of course you decide you are going to sell the only band you have with it.
Or buy a new cheap band to fit onto your old watch before putting it up for sale.
If you're so concerned with being able to re-sell it right away and the only credible option to you is re-selling it with a fluoroelastomer band then there's nothing stopping you from buying one of those bands at the time of purchase. Simple really.
 

DirtySocks85

macrumors 65816
Mar 12, 2009
1,429
70
Wichita, KS
I'll throw my theory into the ring on how Apple is going to handle the band issue.

I think they will design the ordering process to be exactly like they do for Macs right now (with the preconfigured "defaults" available in Apple Stores). You pick a Watch collection/model and then are given additional options to upgrade that model.

Note the attached screenshot - There's a base level (which I am going to assume is a Sport Band), and then you can choose to "upgrade" the band. When you buy a bigger hard drive, or additional RAM for a Mac, they don't ship the lower capacity drive or RAM to you as well, they just replace what you get.

I do however think that the upgrade price to nicer bands will be less expensive than buying a band individually (likely by the price they plan on charging for the Sport Band individually).
 

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Piggie

macrumors G3
Feb 23, 2010
8,286
2,471
You may be right.

However, I think we can all understand that.

A lower spec Intel CPU or a Lower Spec Memory module costs a hell of a lot more than a cheap bit of rubber.

Likewise, the "Luxury Strap" you select will fit later watches, and something you may wish to keep so you can use the same strap on a later watch.

No one wants to keep the CPU or RAM when they sell their Mac.

My stance is this:

I would like the rubber strap to be included in the price, and even if you buy an additional luxury strap, you still get the rubber one.
For a fall back strap, or for something you can put on the watch when time comes to sell it.

That's what I'd like, and anyone here with half a brain, as customers should like that too.

Knowing Apple, I suspect this won't happen, and when you select your nice strap you will lose the rubber one.

Of course we are only guessing, and going round in circles.
We shall just have to see what Apple decides on the day :)
 

DirtySocks85

macrumors 65816
Mar 12, 2009
1,429
70
Wichita, KS
You may be right.

However, I think we can all understand that.

A lower spec Intel CPU or a Lower Spec Memory module costs a hell of a lot more than a cheap bit of rubber.

Likewise, the "Luxury Strap" you select will fit later watches, and something you may wish to keep so you can use the same strap on a later watch.

No one wants to keep the CPU or RAM when they sell their Mac.

My stance is this:

I would like the rubber strap to be included in the price, and even if you buy an additional luxury strap, you still get the rubber one.
For a fall back strap, or for something you can put on the watch when time comes to sell it.

That's what I'd like, and anyone here with half a brain, as customers should like that too.

Knowing Apple, I suspect this won't happen, and when you select your nice strap you will lose the rubber one.

Of course we are only guessing, and going round in circles.
We shall just have to see what Apple decides on the day :)

I can see where you're coming from, and I'll explain why I hope this is NOT the case (which I'll admit is a "silly" reason).

Ideally I would indeed like to own two bands, and I would like one of them to be the sport band. However, I want a green (or maybe blue) one. I suspect if they handle it the way you state, that my choices will be limited to black or white.

Let's say we work with the following hypothetical pricing (for example sake only, the example still serves as an analogy even if the actual watch price is different):

Apple Watch (stainless steel): $550
Sport Band: $30
Link Bacelet: $150

In my scenario the bundles made from that would cost as such:

Apple Watch (SS) w/ Sport Band (likely black or white) only : $550
Apple Watch w/ Link Bracelet only: $670
Apple Watch w/ both a Sport Band (of your color choice because you're buying it a la carte): $700

If they do it as you suggest, it removes the middle option entirely, and likely limits color choices on the Sport Band to black or white on the final option; all at the same exact pricing.

I hope they do it as I suggest, because that increases the level of choice, for the same exact price. Then again, Apple has never been about choice, have they? Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm hopeful.
 
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