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BODYBUILDERPAUL

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Great video. Thank you!
I can see why Apple argued that the switching method is inelegant.
Does the black screen only happen with HDR to SDR to DV is switching. How about if it's only set to change frame rates?
 
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BODYBUILDERPAUL

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The same switch would happen if it were just a frame rate change. It definitely isn't as elegant, I don't think that you can make a good argument otherwise, however it is much more functional. At some point elegance needs to take a back seat to just having the best picture possible.
Great argument, thanks buddy. And the wonderful thing is, you have a choice with it - On or Off. Best of both worlds I guess.
 

Elektrofone

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The only issue I've run into so far is that on my HDR10 only capable set it does not automatically switch from the default mode I've set (4K SDR) to HDR in Netflix. It will automatically switch to HDR for iTunes purchased movies.
 

cynics

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Jan 8, 2012
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Great video. Thank you!
I can see why Apple argued that the switching method is inelegant.
Does the black screen only happen with HDR to SDR to DV is switching. How about if it's only set to change frame rates?

A frame rate change does not require the TV itself to refresh its inputs (black screen). The AppleTV will likely need to switch its output causing a black screen though. This will at least satisfy those with 24p judder, hopefully. Although this looks app based too. Better than nothing though.

The SDR and HDR switch is awesome though. Most modern TV's (I know Samsung does) have an profile for SDR and HDR on a single input. So now we can calibrate till perfection without having to worry about "faux HDR".
 
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Elektrofone

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A frame rate change does not require the TV itself to refresh its inputs (black screen). The AppleTV will likely need to switch its output causing a black screen though. This will at least satisfy those with 24p judder, hopefully. Although this looks app based too. Better than nothing though.

The SDR and HDR switch is awesome though. Most modern TV's (I know Samsung does) have an profile for SDR and HDR on a single input. So now we can calibrate till perfection without having to worry about "faux HDR".

Is it better to leave the default on HDR or SDR?
 

cynics

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Jan 8, 2012
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Is it better to leave the default on HDR or SDR?

Do you mean with tvOS 11.2? If that is the case I don't know since I use my ATV for HomeKit device I dont risk betas. However I don't think it would matter, I assume it will just switch between HDR and SDR.
 

BuddyRich

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Mar 21, 2012
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Unless you watch a ton of HDR it probably makes more sense to keep it in SDR so it has to switch less often. Though then you miss out on the HDR arial screen savers.

Running the GUI in HDR forces the TV to constantly run in its high light output mode (HDR10 or DV) as well, using much more energy than if it was set to SDR.
 

err404

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Mar 4, 2007
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Running the GUI in HDR forces the TV to constantly run in its high light output mode (HDR10 or DV) as well, using much more energy than if it was set to SDR.
Great point. Especially if you don’t have an OLED TV. You don’t want your “screen saver” to be stressing your backlight.
 

Poontaco

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Feb 2, 2014
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The only issue I've run into so far is that on my HDR10 only capable set it does not automatically switch from the default mode I've set (4K SDR) to HDR in Netflix. It will automatically switch to HDR for iTunes purchased movies.

Weird. It works perfectly for me. It adjusted frame-rate and HDR mode for everything I tried.
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Is it better to leave the default on HDR or SDR?

SDR. The menus and screensavers don't look right with HDR.
[doublepost=1509725948][/doublepost]
Unless you watch a ton of HDR it probably makes more sense to keep it in SDR so it has to switch less often. Though then you miss out on the HDR arial screen savers.

I don't think the screensavers are actually HDR. A lot of them look great, but some (like the sand dunes) look way too vibrant, blown-out, and fake.
 

vipergts2207

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Great point. Especially if you don’t have an OLED TV. You don’t want your “screen saver” to be stressing your backlight.

While it would use a little more energy (let’s not forget that most people will be using TV’s with LED backlights), the backlight is not going to be “stressed”. Playing video, including HDR video, is what these things were built for.
 
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BODYBUILDERPAUL

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While it would use a little more energy (let’s not forget that most people will be using TV’s with LED backlights), the backlight is not going to be “stressed”. Playing video, including HDR video, is what these things were built for.

True but i'm thinking that maxed out setting on both backlight and contrast can't be good for the screen long term? I'm seriously thinking that HDR is designed for OLED for every day use and occasional for LCD. Forgive me if i'm wrong but that's the opinion that i've formed over this.
When mine arrives, I think that i'll leave set to 4K SDR 60 with Match set to ON.
 
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vipergts2207

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True but i'm thinking that maxed out setting on both backlight and contrast can't be good for the screen long term? I'm seriously thinking that HDR is designed for OLED for every day use and occasional for LCD. Forgive me if i'm wrong but that's the opinion that i've formed over this.
When mine arrives, I think that i'll leave set to 4K SDR 60 with Match set to ON.

In this case, it seems your opinion is unfounded. It also seems silly to buy an HDR capable TV and then be worried about using it. All things will eventually wear out, but a TV isn't going to because of watching 'too much' HDR.
 

BODYBUILDERPAUL

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In this case, it seems your opinion is unfounded. It also seems silly to buy an HDR capable TV and then be worried about using it. All things will eventually wear out, but a TV isn't going to because of watching 'too much' HDR.

Have a read of this Flatpanels review of the ATV. Great review.
https://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1507035457
"It is becoming increasingly clear to us that LCD TVs, especially edge-lit LCD panels, are simply not fit for the present of HDR, and even less for the future of video where HDR becomes the norm."

They really point out the fact including:

" Remember when we said that sometime in the future HDR will become the norm? Well, HDR-capable LCD TVs (LED TVs = LCD TVs) are not designed for this future. LCD TVs are instead designed for a time where HDR content still represents a very small portion of what you are watching. Why? Because whenever an LCD TV detects a HDR input it maxes out its LED backlight, which increases power consumption 2-2.5x times compared to SDR. Power consumption of an LCD TV is fairly constant (except for high-end zone-dimming LCD TVs). We said it was not pretty.

This is a very serious problem and a problem that forces us to recommend against using an LCD TV in HDR mode with Apple TV 4K because it will force your TV into overdrive all the time.

It is becoming increasingly clear to us that LCD TVs, especially edge-lit LCD panels, are simply not fit for the present of HDR, and even less for the future of video where HDR becomes the norm."
 

ActionableMango

macrumors G3
Sep 21, 2010
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And the wonderful thing is, you have a choice with it - On or Off. Best of both worlds I guess.

This always seems like the way to go for anything that will be a personal preference--just make it an option.

That being said, my preference is clearly the smart choice. ;)
 

vipergts2207

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Have a read of this Flatpanels review of the ATV. Great review.
https://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1507035457
"It is becoming increasingly clear to us that LCD TVs, especially edge-lit LCD panels, are simply not fit for the present of HDR, and even less for the future of video where HDR becomes the norm."

They really point out the fact including:

" Remember when we said that sometime in the future HDR will become the norm? Well, HDR-capable LCD TVs (LED TVs = LCD TVs) are not designed for this future. LCD TVs are instead designed for a time where HDR content still represents a very small portion of what you are watching. Why? Because whenever an LCD TV detects a HDR input it maxes out its LED backlight, which increases power consumption 2-2.5x times compared to SDR. Power consumption of an LCD TV is fairly constant (except for high-end zone-dimming LCD TVs). We said it was not pretty.

This is a very serious problem and a problem that forces us to recommend against using an LCD TV in HDR mode with Apple TV 4K because it will force your TV into overdrive all the time.

It is becoming increasingly clear to us that LCD TVs, especially edge-lit LCD panels, are simply not fit for the present of HDR, and even less for the future of video where HDR becomes the norm."

It seems to me that its not wearing out the TV they're worried about, but rather the decreased performance image quality-wise you'll get from an edge-lit LCD versus an OLED when it comes to HDR. You can only do so much with a panel where the brightness of the backlight has to be uniform. In that sense, no, edge-lit LCDs are certainly not the best way to view HDR.
 
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