How better would be a DIY PC that you could make for price of Mac Mini?

[levmc]

I noticed that since Mac Pro is too expensive, if you want a desktop solution that is not all-in-one like iMac, you are left with only Mac Mini, unless you want to use very old Mac Pro.

But Mac Mini is very small, and DIY PC is very large, so it seems like you get more bang for your buck building your own PC. If Mac Mini is that small, wouldn't you be able to get only laptop performance out of it?

 

[Roadstar]

I noticed that since Mac Pro is too expensive, if you want a desktop solution that is not all-in-one like iMac, you are left with only Mac Mini, unless you want to use very old Mac Pro.

But Mac Mini is very small, and DIY PC is very large, so it seems like you get more bang for your buck building your own PC. If Mac Mini is that small, wouldn't you be able to get only laptop performance out of it?

It shouldn’t be hard to squeeze more performance out of a PC especially if the small form factor isn’t important. However, if you want a machine that’s as smooth and silent in regular use as the Mac mini, then also a PC setup gets more expensive. But naturally if the expected workload is of a kind that makes the mini spin its fans almost constantly, a well-ventilated PC setup could end up being more reasonable.

It depends on so many factors that a proper answer is hard to give without knowing all the requirements and needs.

 

[xraydoc]

I noticed that since Mac Pro is too expensive, if you want a desktop solution that is not all-in-one like iMac, you are left with only Mac Mini, unless you want to use very old Mac Pro.

But Mac Mini is very small, and DIY PC is very large, so it seems like you get more bang for your buck building your own PC. If Mac Mini is that small, wouldn't you be able to get only laptop performance out of it?

Exactly. Which is why I'm currently using a PC on my desk instead of a Mac.

Bought a PC back in March. For about $1600, I have more power than a $4000 iMac (especially the GPU). For another $800, I added a 120Hz IPS 34" ultrawide display, which has been amazing (no, it's not a 5K retina display, but at standard resolution seems to display more without text being microscopic).

While Windows 10 isn't as pretty as macOS, it gets the job done -- launches apps and manages files and mostly stays out of the way. And since I'm dependent on Microsoft Office, I no longer have to deal with weird compatibility issues that sometimes strikes the macOS versions (especially PowerPoint). Windows 10 has also been extremely stable for me.

One additional benefit to having a fast PC -- I've been able to play a few pretty awesome games on it in my spare time, which has been very welcome since movie theaters and restaurants are shut down.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

But Mac Mini is very small, and DIY PC is very large, so it seems like you get more bang for your buck building your own PC. If Mac Mini is that small, wouldn't you be able to get only laptop performance out of it?

You can also build a small DIY PC (probably not as small as a Mac Mini, but close). There are lots of PC-cases to choose from. With a small form factor you are more limited (cooling, cramped space, choice of motherboards, PSU etc.) but even then it is very possible to build something with the same or better performance than a Mac Mini for less money.

I personally bought an Asus mini-pc (not DIY) with an i3 Quad core processor. I extended the RAM to 16 Gb and I also mounted a larger SSD. It is much smaller than a Mac-Mini (about the size of an Intel NUC) but it has about the same or better performance (as a base Mac-mini) for much less money. Also the Asus is easily upgradable.

There are also lots of YouTube video's about building DIY PC's in lots of form factors (from small to large). Do some research on YouTube and/or Google and you will find a wealth of information. It is impossible to provide all this information in a thread/forum like this.

 

[Erehy Dobon]

But Mac Mini is very small, and DIY PC is very large, so it seems like you get more bang for your buck building your own PC. If Mac Mini is that small, wouldn't you be able to get only laptop performance out of it?

A Mac mini is basically a headless MacBook Pro minus the battery. Apple uses high-end notebook CPUs in the Mac mini. That's why the Mac mini's power consumption is very minimal.

If you look at raw hardware performance-per-dollar, you will always get more bang for your buck from a DIY Windows PC build. Even Windows notebook PCs are a better hardware value than Mac notebooks.

For most people though owning a personal computer is much more than a benchmark score or comparison like Geekbench points per dollar.

 

[ian87w]

I noticed that since Mac Pro is too expensive, if you want a desktop solution that is not all-in-one like iMac, you are left with only Mac Mini, unless you want to use very old Mac Pro.

But Mac Mini is very small, and DIY PC is very large, so it seems like you get more bang for your buck building your own PC. If Mac Mini is that small, wouldn't you be able to get only laptop performance out of it?

Depends on what you want to do with a computer.

Majority of people are fine with inexpensive laptops, thus the mac mini is fine as well in terms of performance. Enthusiasts wanting more Pro-level work can use external GPU on the mini.

Apple doesn't cater to people wanting a cheap tower PC. Their vision of a consumer desktop is an all-in-one, the iMac. This has been the case since Steve Jobs came back to Apple.

Personally, I'm on Windows, even though it's a laptop.

 

[LeeW]

For most people though owning a personal computer is much more than a benchmark score or comparison like Geekbench points per dollar.

This.

If Mac Mini is that small, wouldn't you be able to get only laptop performance out of it?

Depends on what your use case is, sure you can as stated by others pay $1,600 for a PC that will out-perform a Mac Mini and other Apple devices. If you want a Windows-based system then go for it, makes sense. But a Mac Mini provides perfectly good performance for many use cases.

I am a developer, mostly back-end, whether I have a $1,600 PC or Mac Mini, the performance requirement is identical, The PC provides more performance that I would never use, they both give me the performance I need.

 

[pshufd]

I'm using a 2008 Studio XPS (Dell) - Core i7-920, 48 GB RAM, GT 1030 video card, 4K monitor, USB 3.0 PCIe card, Intel 240 GB SSD + Crucial 2 TB SSD. Runs great. It is often nicer than my 2014 and 2015 MacBook Pros because the cooling is so much better. You could look for a cheap desktop and upgrade it.

 

[Falhófnir]

A Mac mini is basically a headless MacBook Pro minus the battery. Apple uses high-end notebook CPUs in the Mac mini. That's why the Mac mini's power consumption is very minimal.

If you look at raw hardware performance-per-dollar, you will always get more bang for your buck from a DIY Windows PC build. Even Windows notebook PCs are a better hardware value than Mac notebooks.

For most people though owning a personal computer is much more than a benchmark score or comparison like Geekbench points per dollar.

They are at least using desktop CPUs again since the release of the 2018 (i3-8100B, i5-8500B & i7-8700B) all running at 65W (though the graphics performance is an abysmal bottleneck).

 

[pshufd]

They are at least using desktop CPUs again since the release of the 2018 (i3-8100B, i5-8500B & i7-8700B) all running at 65W (though the graphics performance is an abysmal bottleneck).

A lot of people would like a mid-tower Mac where you could add your own RAM, PCIe cards, video cards and which has ample cooling. Kind of like the PowerMac G5 or the very early Mac Pros. Sometime very expandable with aftermarket parts, with great cooling and that didn't cost an arm and a leg.

 

[Falhófnir]

A lot of people would like a mid-tower Mac where you could add your own RAM, PCIe cards, video cards and which has ample cooling. Kind of like the PowerMac G5 or the very early Mac Pros. Sometime very expandable with aftermarket parts, with great cooling and that didn't cost an arm and a leg.

Ok, I don't see how that relates to what I wrote though?

 

[pshufd]

Ok, I don't see how that relates to what I wrote though?

The relation was using desktop processors which run better with more cooling.

 

[ian87w]

A lot of people would like a mid-tower Mac where you could add your own RAM, PCIe cards, video cards and which has ample cooling. Kind of like the PowerMac G5 or the very early Mac Pros. Sometime very expandable with aftermarket parts, with great cooling and that didn't cost an arm and a leg.

And that's not what Apple sees the consumers want. Since Steve Jobs, Apple set their vision of consumer desktops to be an all-in-one, ie the iMac. They based this on the fact that sales of consumer computers are now mostly laptops, which is an all-in-one. Refer to my post above for the keynote.

We may not like it, but that's Apple's way. Personally, I cannot justify buying an Apple laptop/desktop brand new as their cost in my country are ludicrous. Add on to the fact that Apple has their vintage policy on software support on Macs. In contrast, Windows 10 can support even 10 year old PCs.

 

[Boyd01]

Add on to the fact that Apple has their vintage policy on software support on Macs. In contrast, Windows 10 can support even 10 year old PCs.

I know that Apple has a policy on hardware support for vintage Macs, but I'm not aware of a vintage software support policy. Seems to me that vintage Macs can often run current operating systems after Apple no longer supports the hardware.

Obtaining service for your Apple product after an expired warranty - Apple Support

Learn about your options for getting service and parts for Apple devices that are past their warranty period.

support.apple.com

 

[maflynn]

so it seems like you get more bang for your buck building your own PC

That's always been the case, and I don't mean Mac vs. PC. I mean you always get more bang for your bug when you build your own machine and you get to choose each component, so having full control is another big advantage.

 

[ian87w]

I know that Apple has a policy on hardware support for vintage Macs, but I'm not aware of a vintage software support policy. Seems to me that vintage Macs can often run current operating systems after Apple no longer supports the hardware.

Obtaining service for your Apple product after an expired warranty - Apple Support

Learn about your options for getting service and parts for Apple devices that are past their warranty period.

support.apple.com

Big Sur dropped support for many 2012 Macs.
In comparison, even old Core 2 Duo PCs can still run Windows 10.

 

[maflynn]

In contrast, Windows 10 can support even 10 year old PCs.

Its a double edge sword, Apple is able to give superior integration between software and hardware, but Microsoft provides a better depth and breadth level of support across a wide range of hardware, both new and old.

Heaven help you if you want to run a Nvidia RTX 2080 in a eGPU on your mac, or hook up a 9 year old scanner.

 

[pshufd]

Its a double edge sword, Apple is able to give superior integration between software and hardware, but Microsoft provides a better depth and breadth level of support across a wide range of hardware, both new and old.

Heaven help you if you want to run a Nvidia RTX 2080 in a eGPU on your mac, or hook up a 9 year old scanner.

I don't know that Apple is better at integration anymore. At least not with older equipment.

My 2008 Dell XPS Studio does more work than my 2015 MacBook Pro 15 these days.

 

[originaldotexe]

My PC is about $1,000. That's around the spec of the top-spec 6-core Mac Mini, but it absolutely obliterates it in performance. Not only GPU performance, where the dedicated Nvidia video card just destroys the Mac Mini's puny Intel integrated graphics (Think 60 FPS at lowest settings 720p in games with the Mac Mini vs 60 FPS at maxed out settings 1080p on the video card in my computer), but it atleast matches it, if not being a little faster, in CPU performance as well, where they're both 6 cores but mine is a 6 core 12 thread, whereas the Mac Mini is a 6 core but only 6 thread, which means multithreaded applications & multitasking performance will be much slower on the Mac Mini). I have a Ryzen 5 2600 (6c12t CPU), 16GB (2x8GB) G.Skill Ripjaws V, an EVGA GeForce GTX 1070 FTW2, a 250GB Samsung 970 EVO SSD as boot, and a 4TB Western Digital Gold HDD as my storage drive. I edit 4K HEVC x265 in Premiere Pro, produce music with a lot of tracks in FL Studio, and I play modern AAA games on max settings at 1600x1200 (I use a CRT monitor which is at 1600x1200 natively), although this PC could easily run those games maxed out at 1080p or possibly even 1440p.

EDIT: the $1100 6-core Mac Mini also only has 8GB of memory, whereas my PC for $100 less has 16GB, not to mention the improvements in other areas.

 

[jerryk]

I am typing this on my deskside PC. It has a RTX 2070 GPU, 64GB of memory, 2 TB of NVme, 4 TB of hard drive, 9900K CPU. On the desk I have 2 27 inch monitors. I run Window 10 Pro and Ubuntu 18.04. Even when training large machine learning models for days this thing runs cool and nearly silent thanks to the 4 pound heat sink, 5 Noctua fans, and 3 fans on the RTX 2070.

I was able to build this for around $1,500 sans monitors. The mac mini listed in my signature sits on a shelf and is never used.

 

[pshufd]

I am typing this on my deskside PC. It has a RTX 2070 GPU, 64GB of memory, 2 TB of NVme, 4 TB of hard drive, 9900K CPU. On the desk I have 2 27 inch monitors. I run Window 10 Pro and Ubuntu 18.04. Even when training large machine learning models for days this thing runs cool and nearly silent thanks to the 4 pound heat sink, 5 Noctua fans, and 3 fans on the RTX 2070.

I was able to build this for around $1,500 sans monitors. The mac mini listed in my signature sits on a shelf and is never used.

I started reading the specs and was mentally running up the price for a Mac Pro for that.

I'm sure that there are some that need the Mac Pro but, if you can do without it, and are okay with Windows, you can save a lot of money or get much more compute, storage and better thermals.

 

[jerryk]

I started reading the specs and was mentally running up the price for a Mac Pro for that.

I'm sure that there are some that need the Mac Pro but, if you can do without it, and are okay with Windows, you can save a lot of money or get much more compute, storage and better thermals.

The Apple tax is high, that is for sure. I can't ever see buying a Mac Pro, except buying a case to display in the background on video calls.

Also, I am cheap and watch for sales. I have a closet full of gear I buy on sale and incorporate into builds.

 

[LeeW]

My PC is about $1,000.

But like I said earlier, everyone is different and there are many use cases. My PC way outperforms a Mac Mini for less money, but, regardless of the output, for what I need each of them to do, they both exceed my needs in terms of performance..

in games

Sigh..

 

[Michael Adams]

I just did this for my wife. The iMac she got 10 years ago can't run modern games properly and isn't getting MacOS updates anymore. A Mac Mini with Thunderbolt video card + extra storage right now would be $1000-2000. I used http://pcpartpicker.com/ to help spec out an AMD Ryzen 5 build for $1000, that's very comparable with a topped-out Mac Mini 2018. Also stuck https://github.com/felixrieseberg/macintosh.js on there for nostalgia.

 

[maflynn]

Sigh..

This is the one area that I absolutely love my Razer - I couldn't imagine dealing with the lockdown that began in March without a wealth of games available. Of course, if I wasn't playing games, maybe I'd be doing something like learning to speak Japanese or play the piano, LOL