How can Apple sell a Mac with 8GB of RAM in 2023 and call it "Pro"

[Altis]

The adult MBP temper-tantrums happen every year and I don't see them stopping, unfortunately. As you said, these people created their own "pro" logical fallacy and then get mad at Apple for not meeting their logical fallacy expectation. I also think many of the MBP folks around here hate the idea that the MBP is also for the common folk. The forum has created a status symbol with the MBP and when the base comes with 8GB of RAM, it crushes their idea of having an elitist Mac.

8 GB has been the norm since around 2007, then 16 GB from about 2013 onwards.

One of the wealthiest companies to be so cheap on RAM and charging extreme markup for upgrades is pathetic, especially knowing that it will almost certainly be the bottleneck that makes the device slow down in just a few years (well unless the extra paging to the soldered SSD from being RAM-starved kills that first, I suppose).

 

[applepotato666]

To be fair, those are all pretty heavy websites. I don't even like leaving MacRumors tabs open on my phone because it always seems to hit my battery a little harder than usual. But point taken. I guess just like applications, it's important to note not just how many tabs you have going but also what those tabs are.

Yeah, certainly. I mean, 8GB is usable. You won't run into too many performance issues with the SSD being that fast (at least on the M1 models) before you kill it from swap. Apple does a great job at making a usable machine with the specs they give it and the 14" MacBook Pro with M3 is welcome especially with 512GB. I believe it costed the same for the 13" one if you up it to 512GB but now you get ProMotion and the new form factor (which is objective) at 1599. I welcome that but also recognize that they're making future e-waste with a processor that will be amazing for years to come, but will end up in a landfill because they wanted to penny pinch for a component that likely costs them just a few bucks more. I remember buying a 4GB MacBook Air the lifespan of which was about a year before you practically couldn't even use it and it would start spitting the "System has ran out of application memory" message without you even having opened anything yet, just macOS idling. And Apple was confidently selling that. I'm sure they'll sell 8GB base for as long as it's a realistic bare minimum, and perhaps for a bit after that.

 

[Isamilis]

Is the only option 8GB? Or can you spec it with more?

If you need more than 8, get more than 8. You’re a big boy, you can make your own decisions.

Idk why people are so mad about something that doesn’t effect them, literary at all - like, just the simple fact that someone, somewhere might buy an 8GB MBP is melting people’s brains is insane

You forgot you buy a PRO machine, few hundred more expensive than Air.

 

[Howard2k]

People keep defending Apple but it has now been a decade since the last time the MacBook Pro saw an increase in base memory. It’s been 11 years since the iMac first got 8GB as base memory. Prior to Tim Cook Apple doubled memory at most every 2 years. Post Tim Cook we have only seen 1 increase in base memory for the Air (4GB to 8GB in 2017) and 2 increases for the MacBook Pro (and the first increase was in 2012)!!!

Let’s face it, they don’t use 8GB in the base models because they have to, but because it makes it easier to upswell to the more profitable models.

And they don't double their base RAM arbitrarily every two years because computing demands don't require that. 8GB in 2011, so 16GB in 2013, 32GB in 2015, 64GB in 2017, 128GB in 2019, 256GB in 2021, 512GB in 2023, 1,024GB in 2025.

 

[boss.king]

Yes it is, 256GB when combined with what they charge to get 512GB or 1TB, considering what flash chips actually cost, is laughable.

It is annoying to see, year after year, people defend the halt in progress because things are “good enough”.

The problem with this argument, it could just as easily defend upgrading nothing! The M1 was good enough, should they just stop upgrading the base model because people who know they need more will buy the Pro and the Max? It’s the same logic after all…

Who's halting progress? Just because the floor remains at a reasonable level doesn't mean the ceiling isn't being raised.

And yeah, you can still buy the M1 Air, because for a lot of people it's good enough. But if it's not enough for you, there's something newer and better (progress!) for you to buy instead.

You keep complaining about dollars but framing your point as though it's about gigabytes. If they slashed all the prices in half across the board, would you still be upset that they're offering an 8GB config to people who are fine with it? My guess is no.

 

[bcortens]

Who's halting progress? Just because the floor remains at a reasonable level doesn't mean the ceiling isn't being raised.

And yeah, you can still buy the M1 Air, because for a lot of people it's good enough. But if it's not enough for you, there's something newer and better (progress!) for you to buy instead.

You keep complaining about dollars but framing your point as though it's about gigabytes. If they slashed all the prices in half across the board, would you still be upset that they're offering an 8GB config to people who are fine with it? My guess is no.

If the RAM and storage sizes stop changing for the base model that is, be definition, a halt in progress. That is what the words mean….

Oh I don’t mean they should still make the m1 air, I mean that if we are arguing that good enough is a reason not to raise the floor then by that logic they shouldn’t have bothered with the base m2 or m3. Just do the new chassis but change nothing about the internals, after all, the floor is good enough.

I am complaining because progress stopped. I actually think they should have kept the m2 Mac mini at $699 starting price but doubled it to 16-512. A premium computer should last years and years and should have a higher baseline. And people should expect that after a decade they can get more ram and storage as standard.

 

[BellSystem]

So between the Apple apologists, the lazy keynotes, and the lack of real vision….it would seem Apple officially sucks. These products are just jokes now. 8GB for what they charge is outrageous in 2023.

How you people time and time again can defend the all mighty Apple when they are knowingly screwing you by giving you garbage specs at high prices for high margins is beyond me. Are you all really that blinded by ignorance?

Here Apple…here is $2,000+ for rubbish specs so I can feel superior to my peers. It’s gotten so embarrassing to use these products and be associated with its cultish user base that will blindly defend what is clearly a robbery. It’s like having a badge that says I paid more for less.

 

[AAPLGeek]

You won’t have to wait long for that Intel MBP to overheat and be loud as a mf.

And I’ll wait for you to tell me why anyone that knows how to instantiate and need a 6GB VM would purposely buy a 8GB model, regardless of what Apple names it.

No one in their right mind would, but that's hardly the point.
My issue is with the absolutist statements like the one you made about 8GB ASi Mac being better at multitasking than a x86 16GB Mac. The ASi machine might be more responsive, but once you've actually hit the physical RAM ceiling no amount of Apple silicon magic will save you.

As for your remark on the Intel MBP's thermal characteristics, I believe that to be quite an exaggeration. I had one at work back in the day and it ran multiple VMs just fine, even while connected to an external display.

 

[NT1440]

Ah. So not for Pro’s, then. Understood.

And the platinum elite credit card is not for elites. What is it about their branding decision that upsets you?

 

[kpluck]

I'm so incredibly disappointed in the 14" M3 MacBook Pro. There is NOTHING about that machine that is "Pro". 8GB of RAM in a pro machine is a joke, as is only being able to drive a single external display and having only two Thunderbolt ports. The 512GB SSD is merely "acceptable", which is fine in the base machine I suppose. What's aggravating is that Apple had to TRY to neuter this machine. This is better than the 13" Pro it's replacing, but just barely. I'm continuing to hold out for an M3 Air 15". I'm sure it'll only be $200 cheaper, but I'm not paying extra for the 14" non-Pro.

Then don't buy it. Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable attaching "Pro" to the name of any computer with less than 32GB of RAM and 1TB of storage and that is the first thing I will change at Apple when they hire me to replace Tim Cook. However, until then, I don't give a fig what Apple does with their naming conventions because the names are irrelevant.
🤷‍♂️

-kp

 

[boss.king]

Yeah, certainly. I mean, 8GB is usable. You won't run into too many performance issues with the SSD being that fast (at least on the M1 models) before you kill it from swap. Apple does a great job at making a usable machine with the specs they give it and the 14" MacBook Pro with M3 is welcome especially with 512GB. I believe it costed the same for the 13" one if you up it to 512GB but now you get ProMotion and the new form factor (which is objective) at 1599. I welcome that but also recognize that they're making future e-waste with a processor that will be amazing for years to come, but will end up in a landfill because they wanted to penny pinch for a component that likely costs them just a few bucks more. I remember buying a 4GB MacBook Air the lifespan of which was about a year before you practically couldn't even use it and it would start spitting the "System has ran out of application memory" message without you even having opened anything yet, just macOS idling. And Apple was confidently selling that. I'm sure they'll sell 8GB base for as long as it's a realistic bare minimum, and perhaps for a bit after that.

The difference is that 4GB was actually not enough, while 8GB today is still completely usable. I also agree that Apple will probably keep selling 8GB models long after 8GB isn't enough for basic tasks, but now is not that time.

The ewaste thing is a completely different and valid argument if people are underestimating their needs and replacing their machines within a year or two, but that's a problem with education more so than configuration. If people who need more than 8GB don't buy 8GB machines, this shouldn't be an issue either.

Just to be clear, there are obviously a lot of people who can't get by with 8, 16, or even 32GB of RAM, but the are tons and tons of people who only use their computer to type out emails, check Facebook, and stream video, and for them a base MacBook Pro gives them a nicer display to do that on and should last them a good 5-10 years if they don't drastically change the way they use a computer. I think people just need to look past the word Pro in the name. It's only branding. Read it as Premium or Fancy if that makes it easier to see past it.

 

[mcled53]

I'm so incredibly disappointed in the 14" M3 MacBook Pro. There is NOTHING about that machine that is "Pro". 8GB of RAM in a pro machine is a joke, as is only being able to drive a single external display and having only two Thunderbolt ports. The 512GB SSD is merely "acceptable", which is fine in the base machine I suppose. What's aggravating is that Apple had to TRY to neuter this machine. This is better than the 13" Pro it's replacing, but just barely. I'm continuing to hold out for an M3 Air 15". I'm sure it'll only be $200 cheaper, but I'm not paying extra for the 14" non-Pro.

There are many people that ONLY use a computer for safari, mail, iMessage and other light-weight applications. With the OS on fast SSD and compressed memory the 8 GB RAM is quite usable. Not for you or myself .. but aceptable for many others.

 

[pdoherty]

For the vast majority of people this machine is actually targeted to, it’s more machine than they’ll ever need.

"640K of RAM is more than anyone will ever need"

 

[boss.king]

So between the Apple apologists, the lazy keynotes, and the lack of real vision….it would seem Apple officially sucks. These products are just jokes now. 8GB for what they charge is outrageous in 2023.

How you people time and time again can defend the all mighty Apple when they are knowingly screwing you by giving you garbage specs at high prices for high margins is beyond me. Are you all really that blinded by ignorance?

Here Apple…here is $2,000+ for rubbish specs so I can feel superior to my peers. It’s gotten so embarrassing to use these products and be associated with its cultish user base that will blindly defend what is clearly a robbery. It’s like having a badge that says I paid more for less.

So don't buy a Mac? No one has a gun to your head here, you're free to leave at any time. If all you want in a computer is a ton of RAM and storage, you can get that from basically any vendor, but that's not the totality of what a laptop is.

 

[bcortens]

There are many people that ONLY use a computer for safari, mail, iMessage and other light-weight applications. With the OS on fast SSD and compressed memory the 8 GB RAM is quite usable. Not for you or myself .. but aceptable for many others.

Contrary to popular belief in these forums it is a misconception that basic users need less than more sophisticated ones, especially for storage. My parents, brothers, friends, and grandparents do not have large cloud storage that they pay for. I tell them they should but they don’t. So when they run out of space on their phones, iPads, and macs, they complain. I haven’t recommended a base phone or mac to anyone in a decade now.

In truth, it is only well informed users who are properly able to judge whether or not they can get by with the base model, and yet it is the least informed users who are likely to buy them (based on the price).

 

[AAPLGeek]

8 GB has been the norm since around 2007, then 16 GB from about 2013 onwards.

One of the wealthiest companies to be so cheap on RAM and charging extreme markup for upgrades is pathetic, especially knowing that it will almost certainly be the bottleneck that makes the device slow down in just a few years (well unless the extra paging to the soldered SSD from being RAM-starved kills that first, I suppose).

Beautiful post.

Apple does it because they always know that enough suckers will buy it. These professional geekbenchers only care about superficial metrics and a shiny new Apple logo.

Hell, Apple can put Mx Ultra chip with 8GB of RAM in one of these machines and you'll still have these suckers buying it in droves.

 

[bcortens]

So don't buy a Mac? No one has a gun to your head here, you're free to leave at any time. If all you want in a computer is a ton of RAM and storage, you can get that from basically any vendor, but that's not the totality of what a laptop is.

This, right here, is you carrying water for a corporation that has decided to allow base storage and ram to stagnate (in some macs for more than a decade) so that they can charge exorbitant prices for upgrades having made third party upgrades impossible.

 

[bcortens]

On last point to end the day for me…

Why is it that we should be satisfied with “good enough”? Why do we want Apple to be the brand of doing the bare minimum? Shouldn’t we hope for, and expect more from a brand selling itself as the name in premium personal computing experience?

 

[lowkey]

I think that the 8GB ram in the 14” MBP is a joke.

For the MacBook Air and the iMac I think it’s ok as for many the 8GB will suffice.

In my shared office a professional Interior Designer runs her office on an 8/512 24” iMac. She says it’s great. She used office suite plus sketchup plus Archicad and said she’s never had any problems.

On my 14” MBP M1 Pro I have 16GB. When running Cubase, Audiojack, Spotify and a few Brave windows I’m using about 14gb of ram and memory pressure gets up to yellow on occasions but still with zero swap.

So for more taxing use cases I’d say the 16GB should be base. Like it was for every previous M series 14” MBP.

The problem is that the base 14” MBP is literally the base model Air. No way that should be called Pro.

 

[boss.king]

If the RAM and storage sizes stop changing for the base model that is, be definition, a halt in progress. That is what the words mean….

That's certainly a skewed definition of it. Why are you choosing to only measure progress by the baseline rather than the full range of options?

Oh I don’t mean they should still make the m1 air, I mean that if we are arguing that good enough is a reason not to raise the floor then by that logic they shouldn’t have bothered with the base m2 or m3. Just do the new chassis but change nothing about the internals, after all, the floor is good enough.

Again, no one is arguing that we shouldn't make progress, this is a point you've made up to argue against. Improving the ceiling is still progress, even if the floor isn't raising quite as fast.

I am complaining because progress stopped. I actually think they should have kept the m2 Mac mini at $699 starting price but doubled it to 16-512. A premium computer should last years and years and should have a higher baseline. And people should expect that after a decade they can get more ram and storage as standard.

This doesn't really make sense. You say you don't want progress to stop, but then say you'd be okay if it stopped as long as you got a price cut? Make up your mind. Also, these machines will last years and years, so long as you buy correctly, which has been the case since about 2012. That's a customer education issue.

To be clear, I have no issue with wanting a price cut. I agree that Apple overcharges for RAM and storage at every tier, but that's a different point to your inconsistent complaining about progress. If the baseline still serves a lot of users, updating it (which will come with a price hike because it's Apple, so of course it will) just means people will end up paying more for specs they don't need.

Progress for progress' sake doesn't help anyone. Progress to address actual usability issues is the better move, and 8GB machines are still plenty usable.

Like I said in a previous post, this is a complaint about dollars that you're pretending actually is about gigabytes.

 

[boss.king]

This, right here, is you carrying water for a corporation that has decided to allow base storage and ram to stagnate (in some macs for more than a decade) so that they can charge exorbitant prices for upgrades having made third party upgrades impossible.

That's a misleading way to put it. It's me being realistic about what people actually need and recognising that a computer is not just RAM and SSD specs in a vacuum. You make it sound like Macs haven't changed since 2012 just because two specs on the base config are still the same.

I agree that prices are too high. I disagree that 8GB isn't enough for a big chunk of users. Twist that however you like.

 

[Technerd108]

Sometimes I think people just like to complain.

So more options is bad? Basically the cost of the M3 Pro 14" MBP with 16gb ram costs exactly the same as last year???? Even with a new chip.

But because they got rid of the 13" dinosaur Pro that was completely redundant they outfitted the much better 14" design with much better screen, speakers, ports, and charge a bit more for it than the 13". You get the same M3 processor that will eventually be in the air and iPad which performs well enough for a lot of people but gives those users other Pro specs for not a lot more money.

8 GB ram is the starting point for most of the industry PC or Mac so until PC makers eliminate 8gb as a starting place like Surface devices I don't see Apple changing anything.

If you compare cost vs performance, design, components, it is hard to beat the value you are getting in such a premium device.

Apple did a great job on the Mac lineup.

All that being said if cost is the most important thing to you then it is hard to beat some Windows laptops. For example, Asus released the Zenbook 14 with a 120hz OLED touch screen with gorilla glass protection, 16gb ddr5 ram and pci 4 512gb SSD, 13th gen Intel i7 h series processor in an all aluminum mil spec chassis. This costs on sale at Best buy between $699 and $799. To get a similar Mac (minus OLED of course) it would cost you several hundred dollars. You can argue the i7 isn't as good and runs hotter and chews up battery and that it isn't as premium but you are getting a pretty incredible laptop for a very reasonable price.

If you want a Mac you need to save up for it. They have always been expensive but they have always been a quality product that you can use for many years and is inherently more secure than any Windows device.

But it is hard to argue that they are the best value. It has always been this way and since Apple is a trillion dollar company using this strategy I doubt they will ever change.

 

[lowkey]

Nonsense, not everyone needs more than 8GB, simple as that…
And there are people out there that use office apps and can do their job with just a couple tabs open… take a look around the real world

The point is that is not Pro.
It’s MacBook Bare Minimum.
“It’s the new MBBM”

 

[Analog Kid]

The point is that is not Pro.
It’s MacBook Bare Minimum.
“It’s the new MBBM”

I'm pretty sure Haiku is 5,7,5...

This Mac is not Pro​

It's MacBook Bare Minimum​

New MBBM​

 

[boss.king]

The point is that is not Pro.
It’s MacBook Bare Minimum.
“It’s the new MBBM”

Next you'll be telling me that my MacBook Air isn't as light as air. I guess "MacBook 1.24kg" doesn't roll off the tongue.

Jokes aside, it's important to remember that the names are just branding and they're largely meaningless.