Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
iPod touch How Can I Intentionally Brick My iPod Touch
- Thread starter biff6789
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I wish I did, as you already hit upon some of the things I would have tried myself, such as trying to restore the phone using more than one computer, just in case it wasn't the phone's/iPod's fault.
However, I am mostly interested in trying it because I can't begin to tell you how many times someone has come up to me with problem X, where problem X seems like a problem with an obvious solution, and then when I am able to successfully execute that solution in front of them, they exclaim to me, "how did you make it work for you? I tried doing that very same thing!" ...and I'll just nod my head and shrug my shoulders while thinking all the while, "yeah; I'm sure you did."
Not saying that's the case with these bricked phones. But I'd just like to see it for myself.
-- Nathan
P.S. -- How'd your Genius Bar appointment go? Were they able to resurrect it, or did they fail to do so, too, and end up replacing your hardware?
As mentioned earlier, I, too, am willing to give the OP the benefit of the doubt.
I worked on a case a few years ago as an attorney where the judge ordered the defendant's PDA to be wiped clean since it contained incredibly sensitive data. But the device had to remain intact (i.e. couldn't just be smashed to bits) since it needed to be used as evidence in a future case. But since the data needed to be wiped immediately, we had to find a software geek that knew how to do it since the courthouse couldn't immediately provide one. It's kind of a long story... So there is a whole host of scenarios out there that lead me to believe the OP's post is legit. If he's not sharing the exact details, it's probably because he legally can't
Others here are suggesting he is lying and is just trying to get a new ipod, but the OP said the ipod was the latest version with the latest firmware, so why would he need a newer one? Others suggested he stole it from someone and wants to wipe it clean and return it. But how would he do this without a receipt or without his name or itunes account matching the ipod's serial number?
That's why I believe it could be legitimate... but that's just me
In your case I would call that a secure erase: all files removed, all resulting free space zeroed (or written multiple times with a pattern). You can do something like that to hard drives (or any mass storage device) using Disk Utility.app.
But the OP didn't start by asking for a secure erase. He asked how to disable the device from working at all: he wanted to brick it. In post #8 he eventually says "... the data needs to be completely wiped clean and un-retrievable ...", but that's secure erase, not bricking. Bricking wouldn't necessarily erase all the data beyond hope of recovery. Nor would erasing all the non-system data necessarily cause bricking.
So maybe he's using the wrong term, bricking, instead of secure erase. But you'd think being an attorney that he'd be careful with words and their meaning, especially if it's a technical area he may not be all that expert in.
Other than the technical issue, it still seems questionable at best. What kind of attorney, acting on judge's orders, asks a question like that on a forum like this, and expects to get a technical answer of any reliability? "Yes, your honor, I asked on one of those website forum things, and they told me how to do it myself. I'm sure it must be true, because everything you read on websites with Rumors in their names is certain to be legally unimpeachable."
I wish I did, as you already hit upon some of the things I would have tried myself, such as trying to restore the phone using more than one computer, just in case it wasn't the phone's/iPod's fault.
However, I am mostly interested in trying it because I can't begin to tell you how many times someone has come up to me with problem X, where problem X seems like a problem with an obvious solution, and then when I am able to successfully execute that solution in front of them, they exclaim to me, "how did you make it work for you? I tried doing that very same thing!" ...and I'll just nod my head and shrug my shoulders while thinking all the while, "yeah; I'm sure you did."
Not saying that's the case with these bricked phones. But I'd just like to see it for myself.
-- Nathan
P.S. -- How'd your Genius Bar appointment go? Were they able to resurrect it, or did they fail to do so, too, and end up replacing your hardware?
My Genius Bar appointment was interesting. I handed the phone to him, described everything that had happened, and as soon as I mentioned receiving "error #9", he placed the phone down and said "that's always hardware failure" (he had already checked the water sensors while I was talking. When he heard "error #9", he didn't even attempt to turn the phone on at all. He just opened the drawer behind him and got a replacement. Never hooked it to his computer at all. That, to me, seems like they don't have a good track record at repairing error 9. So maybe there is a way that software can corrupt the phone enough to brick it. I know that the last two pieces of software I was updating before it went south were mobile substrate and kirikae. And that when I was trying to do anything in iRecovery, I just kept getting back "unrecoverable NAND/NAND page xxxxxxxxxx" (can't remember the exact wording of the error from iRecovery). And that phone worked fine since launch day. Maybe it was just time for a failure? Who knows. But i'm on the replacement now, and thank goodness it was one with the old bootrom, so it's humming along nicely with an untethered jailbreak.
So newbie, let me get this straight. You want to know how to brick your touch? Why? Because you're likely to be a thief who ripped it off someone and you'd like to exchange it for a new one? You got a scratch and you're so "gutted" that you must have a new one? Or what? Any reason is likely to be an attempt to defraud Apple. Wow kid, you're my hero.
Next time you should read just a bit more of the thread before you jump to such harsh conclusions.
I have to agree with you. If he wants to "brink" the iPod, the purpose is to make it unusable, why didn't the judge just order the device destroyed. My suggestion would have been to get an appointment for the genius bar, explain to the genius what the "court order" was and ask them to do whatever it takes. Apple will most likely charge the "lawyer" which is fine since he can bill his "client" for that cost, his time and travel expenses.
Case closed, the prosecution rests.
I figure anybody who had a good understanding of how to brick the thing would have sent him an estimate - after all, most lawyers will charge you for the minute (at $200/hr) they spend reading an email.
The real issue is that a real lawyer with this situation isn't just going to be able to bring in the brick and say to the judge, "Look, I could do it!" No sane judge is going to take his word for it, and "the l33t d00ds on the b0rdz say this works" isn't going to make it either. What the OP needs is a real forensic computer specialist, but those cost $$$.
Well, sorry about all of the terribly pointless posts in here OP. I, for one, could care less what you do with the thing or why. Mine bricked when my computer battery died while doing a firmware update. Hope that helps you. As for everyone else, if you're not going to answer, don't post; like others have said. Every post isn't a soap box. If you want to go into tangents make a post somewhere else.
NAND is the type of flash memory in the device. The storage cells in the chip are organized as pages. If the chip has an unrecoverable error, then that would count as a hardware failure. There can be any number of reasons for a flash chip to go bad.
At some level I'd assume that you can't make a Touch irretrievably damaged without doing something physical to it. Eventually, even a 'bricked' Touch *should* be able to be restored to working order.
If you want to be all SpyvSpy about it and obliterate anything that the data ever came in contact with, you would have to somehow *physically* damage it either through over voltage or breaking pins on the dock connector or perhaps drilling a hole into the dock connector or through the headphone jack. It would be relatively 'invisible' to a cursory inspection.
If you want to be all SpyvSpy about it and obliterate anything that the data ever came in contact with, you would have to somehow *physically* damage it either through over voltage or breaking pins on the dock connector or perhaps drilling a hole into the dock connector or through the headphone jack. It would be relatively 'invisible' to a cursory inspection.
The cattle prod seems a bit out of reach for most people, but the grill igniter is sounds like a really good idea.
It may appear that way but surely, being an attorney yourself, you will know only too well that there are many times more people in the world which would have malicious reasons to do what you are asking for help with than there are people with genuine reasons. Also, being an educated person you will appreciate (I hope) that if you cannot prove your genuine plea then it would only be fair to expect that people who ARE genuine would refuse to help you juuuust on the off chance you do have malicious intent.
And posting on these forums makes people no more of 'apple fanatics' than you are. It's an online message board, in internet social area for people to exchange thoughts on a particular product....
You have no way of knowing whether or not you agree with whatever his situation is, but have decided based on your jaded view of humanity that he is probably doing something bad, unless he can "prove" (over the internet) that he's not. Well aren't you folks something special.
To the OP, take it into your local Apple genius bar, explain the situation to them, and see if they'll help you out toasting the bootloader. Unfortunately for you, they did a pretty decent job of making these things recoverable. Any non-physical damage you or anyone else can do can be fixed. Or maybe you could bribe Geohot or someone from the iPhone Dev Team to write a nuke for ya.
Actually, I do have some experience permanently destroying computers. In the Air Force, we simply microwaved them for 3 seconds and wiped their HD's down with magnets.
This is physical damage though. ...even though it's not visible.
Last edited by a moderator:
ThunderSkunk: im wondering if using the magnet on the ipod will work being as its flash memory (?) and also could the magnet damage the screen, appearing to have physical damage?
TO ALL OTHERS: Im Willing to try anything that isnt going to cause physical damage.
So i tried using redsn0w today using various iphone and ipod firmwares on my 3g ipod touch... seems as though there is no possible way to brick....
if anyone has anyother ideas or suggestions please respond...
p.s. i also tried installing PhoneDisk and also SSHing into to delete all the files on the ipod but that didnt yield any better results... as i was unable to delete many files that i didnt have the appropriate permissions to delete... I even tried using FileBuddy to gain more permissions but didnt gain anything....
so far every attempt has been solved in dfu mode with restore.
so? that's not constructive at all. bye.
I say microwave it. my only concern would be for the liquid crystal. u guys think that can react to the microwaves like water would? bubble up, and burst?
edit: in legal terms, is water really considered physical damage? Usually, when it comes to warranties, physical damage and water damage are slated differently.
water dries eventually dries, leaving no evidence (most of the time). any damage that is caused by water is likely the result of an electrical shortage. hence, the microwave theory.
now, if you're looking to brick this thing only by means of software, then I say that you have to look around and see about bypassing permissions, and getting those files deleted.
search the forums...
Last edited:
Thread Summary
Original poster - President Obama told me to brick this iphone - I can't leave any physical evidence. I'm an attorney.
Questions back - why do you want to brick it?
Original poster - Its complicated. Why would I want to question the direction of the United States President. If you want, I can send you his reasoning written on presidential toilet paper later. This is why everyone hates mac people but I am trying to love them through exploitation. I'm an attorney.
Question back - Are you a thief/kid/ex husband/trying to hide something that you have on the IPhone?
Original poster - I'm an attorney and I'm angry you won't help me do something that I claim I need to do with no explanation that I could have found on google in 5 minutes. I'm leaving. Did I mention I am an attorney?
Summed up the entire thread, but 'took it up a few levels'. Everyone loves presidential toilet paper - the commoners call them $100 bills.
Original poster - President Obama told me to brick this iphone - I can't leave any physical evidence. I'm an attorney.
Questions back - why do you want to brick it?
Original poster - Its complicated. Why would I want to question the direction of the United States President. If you want, I can send you his reasoning written on presidential toilet paper later. This is why everyone hates mac people but I am trying to love them through exploitation. I'm an attorney.
Question back - Are you a thief/kid/ex husband/trying to hide something that you have on the IPhone?
Original poster - I'm an attorney and I'm angry you won't help me do something that I claim I need to do with no explanation that I could have found on google in 5 minutes. I'm leaving. Did I mention I am an attorney?
Summed up the entire thread, but 'took it up a few levels'. Everyone loves presidential toilet paper - the commoners call them $100 bills.
Last edited:
A classic no doubt... maybe our lawyer is away from his desk... quoted my reply from months ago.
1. Welcome to the boards.
2. Please don't get all high and mighty and base the folks helping you. Forums often get people that for an infinite number of reasons do and ask very stupid things. In general this forum is good at smelling out the BS and stopping it.
3. Other than your say so, you have no means to tell you are an attorney. I myself have numerous doctoral degrees yet you would be unable to tell from my username either, so I will grant you leeway on this and assume you are legit.
4. The answer you seek is a multistep process. See below.
5. Don't bash folks due to curiosity, as it is natural and you must admit your opening bit was cryptic as have been your replies.
6. Odds are still that you are not what you say and are mis representing what you seek. Why? That is just my gut feeling trhan an attoryney would have a staff member or a tech person on staff or retainer to manage such things. But I digress. Since your info is easily obstained I will give you a solution.
Do Not jailbreak unless the iphone was already JBroken. Why? You have now altered the evidence.
Step 1.
Erase & Restore iPhone. Always good and helps establish baseline.
Step 2.
Add some random apps/songs/etc.
Step 3.
Restore phone and part way through process pull plug and allow battery to run out (this will be a while)
Step 4. Put into DFU mode and recover.
Step 5 . Part way through recovery pull plug.
You will now have failed to load enough critical files the iPod is rendered useless except with a low level format by Apple.
That said, I fail to see why a court would order the iPod undamaged yet tampered with when Apple does provide an erase & restore tool. In addition, a forenseic analysis by professionals could still pick out files in many cases short of physical damage. So if your goal is to prevent files from ever being read, you need to damage the device. This is one of my doctorates, cryptography.
So you see why people have replied the way they did to your post.
2. Please don't get all high and mighty and base the folks helping you. Forums often get people that for an infinite number of reasons do and ask very stupid things. In general this forum is good at smelling out the BS and stopping it.
3. Other than your say so, you have no means to tell you are an attorney. I myself have numerous doctoral degrees yet you would be unable to tell from my username either, so I will grant you leeway on this and assume you are legit.
4. The answer you seek is a multistep process. See below.
5. Don't bash folks due to curiosity, as it is natural and you must admit your opening bit was cryptic as have been your replies.
6. Odds are still that you are not what you say and are mis representing what you seek. Why? That is just my gut feeling trhan an attoryney would have a staff member or a tech person on staff or retainer to manage such things. But I digress. Since your info is easily obstained I will give you a solution.
Do Not jailbreak unless the iphone was already JBroken. Why? You have now altered the evidence.
Step 1.
Erase & Restore iPhone. Always good and helps establish baseline.
Step 2.
Add some random apps/songs/etc.
Step 3.
Restore phone and part way through process pull plug and allow battery to run out (this will be a while)
Step 4. Put into DFU mode and recover.
Step 5 . Part way through recovery pull plug.
You will now have failed to load enough critical files the iPod is rendered useless except with a low level format by Apple.
That said, I fail to see why a court would order the iPod undamaged yet tampered with when Apple does provide an erase & restore tool. In addition, a forenseic analysis by professionals could still pick out files in many cases short of physical damage. So if your goal is to prevent files from ever being read, you need to damage the device. This is one of my doctorates, cryptography.
So you see why people have replied the way they did to your post.
Again, it's complicated
Yea, it's one of those "tell nobody" ones
Sorry
I am betting your full of it. And there is no legal case involved.
I know the first 5 replies to this thread are gonna be "Why would you want to do this?"... Well I wouldn't ask if I didn't have a reason so let's just leave it at that
Anyway, since I need to do this, is there any way to brick the ipod touch without causing any physical damage? Can I jailbreak and pull the plug halfway? Is there another piece of software that'll kill the thing?
In case it matters, it's the most recent ipod with the most recent firmware version
Take a 120 Volt AC line and put it through the USB lines and into the audio out connector. The device will be bricked and no physical damage will occur.