How do I boot a Sawtooth (AGP) G4 from a USB stick?

[DearthnVader]

There is also the option to control a PowerPC Mac's Open Firmware session from another Mac/PC over ethernet via a telnet session. You then get full access to the text buffer and copy/paste.

See details in this post here:

Testing FCode roms before you flash.

Great work! This is a very valuable contribution. It is definitely worth mentioning the telnet option to save the need to obtain a PCI graphics card for the process. First plugin an Ethernet cable to the target machine, reboot into Open Firmware and at the OF prompt setup the telnet I/O device...

forums.macrumors.com

It's a little easier to setup the telnet session if you can plug your Mac into your router, then you can just give the IP address within your routers IP range.

That will allow you to control the telnet session from any computer on your network, or even someone like @LightBulbFun to telnet in from across the Pond;-)

I.E.

" enet:telnet,192.168.254.69" io

 

[LightBulbFun]

It's a little easier to setup the telnet session if you can plug your Mac into your router, then you can just give the IP address within your routers IP range.

That will allow you to control the telnet session from any computer on your network, or even someone like @LightBulbFun to telnet in from across the Pond;-)

I.E.

" enet:telnet,192.168.254.69" io

ah that was fun, did it to help debug something with one of @dosdude1 's iMac G4's IIRC

as for booting from USB, the Sawtooth is from that golden age where you can just hold the option key and bootable USB devices will show up in the boot picker (just make sure your fully updated firmware wise to 4.2.8)

you can even boot from USB 2.0 cards which makes installing OS X much quicker then from the onboard USB 1.1 ports!

 

[Project Alice]

ah that was fun, did it to help debug something with one of @dosdude1 's iMac G4's IIRC

as for booting from USB, the Sawtooth is from that golden age where you can just hold the option key and bootable USB devices will show up in the boot picker (just make sure your fully updated firmware wise to 4.2.8)

you can even boot from USB 2.0 cards which makes installing OS X much quicker then from the onboard USB 1.1 ports!

Wow, why is this not more known?
Is there a list Macs that support this?

 

[weckart]

you can even boot from USB 2.0 cards which makes installing OS X much quicker then from the onboard USB 1.1 ports!

Does the OSX installer load the EHCI driver before installation begins or does it only load the OHCI driver because that is all that OF understands and presents in its hardware probe on booting?

 

[LightBulbFun]

Wow, why is this not more known?
Is there a list Macs that support this?

most of the macs that say MacRISC2 when you run dev / .properties in open firmware

as apposed to MacRISC3 or MacRISC4

support holding option and booting from USB

Does the OSX installer load the EHCI driver before installation begins or does it only load the OHCI driver because that is all that OF understands and presents in its hardware probe on booting?

indeed OS X will thankfully use the EHCI driver

in fact you can even start booting from a USB 1.1 port and unplug the drive and Jab it into a USB 2.0 port

but you have to do this after the OS X kernel is loaded/booted but before OS X finds the root device (this works because it looks for root device via its UUID it doesn't care how its connected)

(as long as you unplug it before it finds root device then ya can take as long as you like jabbing it back in OS X will just sit there with "still waiting for root device")

iv booted my Pismo from a USB 2.0 CardBus card a few times like this LOL

 

[weckart]

iv booted my Pismo from a USB 2.0 CardBus card a few times like this LOL

Aha! Now that was smart thinking there. However, I can see a few busted ports in fumbling to get the drive out of the back and into the Cardbus card before the root drive detection has happened. It's not a huge amount of time.

 

[LightBulbFun]

Aha! Now that was smart thinking there. However, I can see a few busted ports in fumbling to get the drive out of the back and into the Cardbus card before the root drive detection has happened. It's not a huge amount of time.

ah like I said above, you dont have to worry about plugging it in on time, as long as you unplug it before root drive detection has taken place then OS X will just patiently wait for said root device to show back up

and I generally find theres is enough time between when the kernel starts booting and when root device detection that you can safely unplug the drive without rushing and breaking things, or maybe I have just gotten good at it!

a fun one to do is take the cardbus card plug the USB stick into it, then shove the whole lot into the card bus slot on the Pismo and watch OS X suddenly detect everything at once LOL

 

[wnlewis]

Where do I find the subnet number for port 23 on the G4?

In the article you recommended it says there are reserved IP numbers for a standalone ethernet connection.

I bought a crossover ethernet cable and hooked it into the G4 and into a Windows computer running Windows 10. I need to find the correct number for the Windows computer as well. It will be the client machine.

It appears that once the subnet numbers are found then, I should be able to type in, telnet (insert the correct number) on the Windows machine and connect, then run the G4 from the Windows machine.

What help can you recommend to find the subnet numbers for port 23 on both machines?

 

[Amethyst1]

If you're referring to the IP address, you'll find it in System Preferences > Network in OS X - as for Windows 10, open a Command Prompt and type ipconfig /all - then scroll until you see your Ethernet adapter.

 

[wnlewis]

Got it! Thanks!

A question. Is the IP address for Port 23 the same as the IP address for IPv4? Both the G4 and the Windows machine show the IP address for IPv4 for Ethernet. However, the article on debugging Open Firmware using two machines, seems to indicate that there are specific IP addresses reserved for Port 23.

Thanks.

 

[Amethyst1]

If you're referring to @AphoticD's post on setting up the telnet server -

Testing FCode roms before you flash.

Great work! This is a very valuable contribution. It is definitely worth mentioning the telnet option to save the need to obtain a PCI graphics card for the process. First plugin an Ethernet cable to the target machine, reboot into Open Firmware and at the OF prompt setup the telnet I/O device...

forums.macrumors.com

- then yes, you can use the same IP address.

 

[wnlewis]

Absolutely! Thanks! I will give it a try.

I can understand entering the IP address on the G4 doing " enet.telnet,10.1.2.3" io (or actually the correct IP address) and then logging on from the PC with telnet,10.1.2.3. What tells the G4 that the PC has the correct IP address, or is that sent with the request to log on by the PC?

 

[Amethyst1]

What tells the G4 that the PC has the correct IP address, or is that sent with the request to log on by the PC?

The OF command assigns an IP address to the G4 which you then use to connect from the PC. The PC's IP is irrelevant as long as it's on the same subnet.

 

[wnlewis]

First I connect the crossover cable between the two computers, with both the G4 and the Windows 10 machine operating normally.

Then I start the client software on the Windows 10 machine and get into a telnet session.

I boot into Open Firmware on the G4. It says release the keys

I release Window (Command) + Alt (Option) + O + F and get ok

Then I type in " enet:telnet,169.254.178.106" io

After that I press the enter key on the alpha keyboard (a PC keyboard connected via USB to the G4) and everything stops. There does not seem to be any other action that will unfreeze the G4.

What do I need to do to get that command to enter correctly?

169.254.178.106 is the ethernet IP address with the crossover cable installed. I do not know if it is the correct IP address for Port 23. It is not the same IP address that I get when the G4 is connected to the router. That IP address is: 192.168.0.101.

 

[Amethyst1]

After you type in the enet command on the G4, all input/output happens via telnet. Is 169.254.178.106 the G4's IP address? What happens if you open a telnet session to this IP from the Windows 10 box?

 

[originaldotexe]

PPC machines normally can not be booted from USB. Some users have stated that they could boot a G5 from a Firewire connection, but otherwise I don't believe it's possible to boot a PPC Mac from a USB connection.

This is completely false. It just depends on the USB drive being used (only certain 2.0 drives will work, 3.0 and above won't work at all) and the OS that you're trying to boot from it. I use a USB to install Linux as well as OS X 10.4 Tiger on my PPC macs, however I've not had any luck booting Leopard from a USB, I get the "no smoking" sign just as OP got with theirs.

 

[wnlewis]

The IP address from the G4 when connected via the crossover cable to the Windows 10 machine is: 169.254.88.57. However that says that it is a DHCP address.

If I do not select DHCP, then I get no IP address - just 0.0.0.0.

If the crossover cable is not connected to the Windows 10 machine, I also get no IP address for Ethernet.

 

[Amethyst1]

The IP address from the G4 when connected via the crossover cable to the Windows 10 machine is: 169.254.88.57.

OK - try using this address in the enet command and then opening a telnet session on Windows 10 to this address.

 

[wnlewis]

I used a log on procedure from Acronis to test for active ports. I entered telnet,169.254.88.57 23 (23 being the port for telnet on both machines) on the Windows 10 machine. The screen went dark on the G4 - indicating that I had a good connection. I got an ok on the screen of the Windows 10 machine.

I entered devalias, on the Windows 10 machine, and all of the alias addresses showed up and were scrollable. So I copied that information and pasted it into a Libre Office document.

I fouled up because I couldn't remember the correct command to get a device list. It should have been: dev / ls, and I typed in dev /ls - which didn't work.

So back to square one, since I had to get back on the internet to get the correct command.

However, the IP address changed, and when I tried to make the connection the second time it failed, even with what appeared to be the correct new IP address. Actually it failed before that, I would type in: " enet:telnet, 169.254.XX.YY" io and then press the Enter key on the PC keyboard that I am using with the G4.

Instead of the screen freezing, which it should have done - with the correct IP address -, it just gave an ok, and the screen remained responsive to the keyboard - meaning, no telnet session initiated.

Back to finding a good IP address and making sure I start the telnet session on the G4 correctly.

But, I did successfully connect the two computers for at least a while, and I did get useful information about the correct path to the USB sticks. One piece of the puzzle down and one to go.

The Acronis site is very detailed in what to do. It is primarily for IT people who need to find out if ports are open - that shouldn't be, security risks - or that ports are closed that should be open - causing programs to fail. It works through the administrative command prompt, as opposed to the command prompt. The two are different and use a little different set of commands.

I have thought about going through the router that I use, which is supposed to be an easier procedure. There would be no danger to the Windows 10 machine, since it is in client mode. I am concerned about the G4 since telnet has no security and I have seen the level of attacks on computers that goes on all the time.

Thank you for your continued help. Very much appreciated!

 

[wnlewis]

I got the Windows 10 machine to log on to the G4 again, and this time I got both the devalias and the dev / ls lists, which I copied and pasted into a Libre Office document.

So with the information from Disk Utility on each USB, I should be able to live boot and then install MintPPC.

Thanks to everyone for their help on this.

P.S. Each time the IP address changes for port 23. However, with the Acronis information, I was sure each time that the results were good. I typed in the command: telnet 169.254.251.251 23 this time, and the screen on the G4 went dark and I got the ok > on the Windows 10 machine. At that point I put in the devalias command, and then after copying that information, put in the dev / ls command. WNL