Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

asifnaz

macrumors regular
Original poster
Dec 3, 2010
129
4
It has both positive and negative affects .

By this step Apple can lead the industry as it will no longer rely on Intel .

But there will be a lot less Applications to begin with .
 

Puonti

macrumors 68000
Mar 14, 2011
1,567
1,185
It's expected that most modern macOS (Intel) applications will work* through Rosetta 2 on Apple Silicon Macs.

*Performance is still unconfirmed by third parties.
 

asifnaz

macrumors regular
Original poster
Dec 3, 2010
129
4
At this pint Imac can run MS Windows natively . I am not sure if ARM based Imacs can do that
 

ApfelKuchen

macrumors 601
Aug 28, 2012
4,334
3,011
Between the coasts
At this pint Imac can run MS Windows natively . I am not sure if ARM based Imacs can do that
That's right - there won't be Windows apps running natively on Apple Silicon Macs.

I look at the flip side of things - there are far more people using iOS that will love to have their iOS apps running on their Macs than there are people actually running Windows sessions on their Intel Macs. There will be millions of iOS apps capable of running on Mac, and every current Mac app will still be able to run, without modification. Mac users will not be starved for apps.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Waragainstsleep

richinaus

macrumors 68020
Oct 26, 2014
2,393
2,144
That's right - there won't be Windows apps running natively on Apple Silicon Macs.

I look at the flip side of things - there are far more people using iOS that will love to have their iOS apps running on their Macs than there are people actually running Windows sessions on their Intel Macs. There will be millions of iOS apps capable of running on Mac, and every current Mac app will still be able to run, without modification. Mac users will not be starved for apps.

I should fix that for you. Mac users will be starved of professional apps.
 

ApfelKuchen

macrumors 601
Aug 28, 2012
4,334
3,011
Between the coasts
I should fix that for you. Mac users will be starved of professional apps.
Your opinion is yours, my opinion is mine. There's nothing to "fix" in what I said.

There won't be one fewer Mac pro app because of this. I guess by your definition, Windows apps are "professional" and Mac apps are not?

One can argue that Intel Mac gave some app developers an excuse to not develop for Mac at all.

There are lots of industry-specific apps that are produced solely for the dominant desktop platform (Windows) - their audience may not be large enough to justify the expense of dual-platform support.

With the shift to mobile, there are also lots of industry/company-specific apps being produced for iOS devices. They likely aren't the same kind of apps you're referring to as "pro," but they're in widespread business use nonetheless. Bringing those apps to the desktops of their mobile users could be a very big thing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Trhodezy

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,429
3,979
At this pint Imac can run MS Windows natively . I am not sure if ARM based Imacs can do that

That is as much up to Microsoft as anything that Apple has to do.



There are some parts Apple needs to do. Some parts that Microsoft does (and Microsoft has to come up with a licensing model they can live with). And probably some 3rd parties to help it come together.

MS Windows 10 will run. "Professional" 32-bit x86 plug-ins to MS-Office will probably run. Newer 64-bit Win32 apps are probably in an odd place.

But if off counting MS Windows apps as a primary source of apps that need to be counted to make the new iMac viable, then that is just highly dubious. Windows is a "nice to have" for the Mac ecosystem. It isn't critical. ( Certainly it appears more critical in internet forums where folks come to heavily geek out on tech minutiae , but broad spectrum end user wise.... not really).

Without misdirecting off to Windows, most apps written specifucally to macOS and that have been actively updated over last 2-3 years to keep up with general direcdtion of development that Apple has suggested over the last 4-5 WWDC events won't have a big problem.


Much stuff that has "dead" development will get caught though. Drivers for equipment where no one has touched the code in 4-5 years will probably die. But it will die on the Intel side of macOS 11 also. Apple told folks back at WWDC 2019 they were going to do a massive overall of kernel extension drivers and folks needed to "get on board" with the change.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2Stepfan

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,429
3,979
It has both positive and negative affects .

By this step Apple can lead the industry as it will no longer rely on Intel .

Intel is not the only x86 supplier with capable CPU packages.
Where it is not "battery power" ( e.g., upper end 27" iMac performance space). Apple isn't necessarily going to win.
Apple will create a new CPU that will be better than the current 27" models. But in a 1-2 years that is not necessarily where the competition is going to be. ( Intel will be still somewhat stuck, so Apple probably will do their comparison versus them. But more likely more so to the current iMacs. ).

But there will be a lot less Applications to begin with .

Not many huge blockers to moving most mac Apps from Apple's side. Some developers have their own internal issues though. The purge here is likely going to be smaller than the purge of 32-bit mac apps that the current OS implemented. macOS 11 is going to purge some low to no effort apps also on both sides ( intel and Arm. ).
 

richinaus

macrumors 68020
Oct 26, 2014
2,393
2,144
Your opinion is yours, my opinion is mine. There's nothing to "fix" in what I said.

There won't be one fewer Mac pro app because of this. I guess by your definition, Windows apps are "professional" and Mac apps are not?

One can argue that Intel Mac gave some app developers an excuse to not develop for Mac at all.

There are lots of industry-specific apps that are produced solely for the dominant desktop platform (Windows) - their audience may not be large enough to justify the expense of dual-platform support.

With the shift to mobile, there are also lots of industry/company-specific apps being produced for iOS devices. They likely aren't the same kind of apps you're referring to as "pro," but they're in widespread business use nonetheless. Bringing those apps to the desktops of their mobile users could be a very big thing.

That’s ok , you don’t understand what I mean.

Most Mac versions of pro Design / CAD/ rendering / office apps are not as good as their windows counterparts right now. I am not holding my breath to see what happens.

I use my iPad Pro for professional paid design work - the apps are not beneficial really in a desktop scenario.

All the consumer apps are a different story which is probably what you are referring to.
 

ADGrant

macrumors 68000
Mar 26, 2018
1,689
1,059
That’s ok , you don’t understand what I mean.

Most Mac versions of pro Design / CAD/ rendering / office apps are not as good as their windows counterparts right now. I am not holding my breath to see what happens.

I use my iPad Pro for professional paid design work - the apps are not beneficial really in a desktop scenario.

All the consumer apps are a different story which is probably what you are referring to.

Well Microsoft Office runs on Macs (admittedly Excel for the Mac is not quite as advanced). The Adobe suite of Apps is also available for the Mac. I have no idea what the CAD apps are like but that is a niche use case. The software development tools available for the Mac are for the most part as good or better than those for Windows (unless you are building Windows Desktop apps of course). That said, while the ARM Macs will be great for iOS developers they may not be so good for developers deploying apps server side applications and Mac desktop developers will have to support two CPU architectures now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tagbert and Woochoo

richinaus

macrumors 68020
Oct 26, 2014
2,393
2,144
Well Microsoft Office runs on Macs (admittedly Excel for the Mac is not quite as advanced). The Adobe suite of Apps is also available for the Mac. I have no idea what the CAD apps are like but that is a niche use case. The software development tools available for the Mac are for the most part as good or better than those for Windows (unless you are building Windows Desktop apps of course). That said, while the ARM Macs will be great for iOS developers they may not be so good for developers deploying apps server side applications and Mac desktop developers will have to support two CPU architectures now.

Yes they ‘run’.
You should read about the issues people are having with adobe apps on the Mac Pro......

I am not disagreeing with the development apps, iOS or Apple built software, but the ’niche’ of 3D graphics, visualising, architecture and design is average to poor on intel Macs. So is Adobe, Office [office for windows is far nicer than the mac version]. I am pretty certain the perception of macs is for creatives and I have just listed basically all the Major ‘creative‘ desktop apps.

All the apps I mention are built as Windows Desktop apps primarily and then they do an inferior mac version.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cardfan

ADGrant

macrumors 68000
Mar 26, 2018
1,689
1,059
Yes they ‘run’.
You should read about the issues people are having with adobe apps on the Mac Pro......

I am not disagreeing with the development apps, iOS or Apple built software, but the ’niche’ of 3D graphics, visualising, architecture and design is average to poor on intel Macs. So is Adobe, Office [office for windows is far nicer than the mac version]. I am pretty certain the perception of macs is for creatives and I have just listed basically all the Major ‘creative‘ desktop apps.

All the apps I mention are built as Windows Desktop apps primarily and then they do an inferior mac version.

I don't use Adobe apps anymore, Plenty of alternatives on the Mac that don't charge a subscription. As for MS Office, my wife uses it for work and its fine. I use it casually at home but use the Window version at work. I don't find the Windows version nicer to use but using Excel to build complex spreadsheets that are what we call UDAs (user developed apps).
 

ninecows

macrumors 6502a
Apr 9, 2012
690
1,138
I see it like the deliverance of the iMac. iMac will really shines with AS. Lower thermal, better GPU performance in most cases, a cleaned macOS... Pro apps will take maybe a year or two to adjust and exploit full potential, but I think that from day 1 it will also be a nice experience.

And finally we will get rid of that ugly stupid hatch on the back and there will be no more excuses for not paying the Apple tax on ram.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jerwin

JMacHack

Suspended
Mar 16, 2017
1,965
2,424
I should fix that for you. Mac users will be starved of professional apps.
Things Apple showed at WWDC 2020:
- Adobe Suite working natively on the Apple DTK (which is an A12Z iPad chip)
- Final Cut Pro working natively on the Apple DTK
- Parallels Desktop working natively on the Apple DTK
- Microsoft Office working natively on the Apple DTK
- Autodesk Maya working emulated on the Apple DTK
- Shadow of the Tomb Raider working emulated on the Apple DTK

Barring the game at the end, seems like "professional apps" to me.
 
Last edited:

cardfan

macrumors 601
Mar 23, 2012
4,375
5,530
I don't use Adobe apps anymore, Plenty of alternatives on the Mac that don't charge a subscription. As for MS Office, my wife uses it for work and its fine. I use it casually at home but use the Window version at work. I don't find the Windows version nicer to use but using Excel to build complex spreadsheets that are what we call UDAs (user developed apps).

There is no office for Apple silicon. I’m not even sure why MS would bother. This isn’t exactly a platform with millions of users. Who would buy Apple silicon right now? Only the most loyal apple fans. Most devs won’t bother with it and will continue to support intel versions instead.
 

JMacHack

Suspended
Mar 16, 2017
1,965
2,424
There is no office for Apple silicon. I’m not even sure why MS would bother. This isn’t exactly a platform with millions of users. Who would buy Apple silicon right now? Only the most loyal apple fans. Most devs won’t bother with it and will continue to support intel versions instead.
1 sec of google.

fixed thank you
 

cardfan

macrumors 601
Mar 23, 2012
4,375
5,530
Did you watch the Keynote? Or even [try to] read anything pertaining to Office on ASi Macs?

Did you? Looked like office for iPad. MS doesn’t even have a windows arm version of office. What makes you think they have something for Apples cpu that is remotely desktop level?
 
  • Angry
Reactions: Tagbert

thenewperson

macrumors 6502a
Mar 27, 2011
964
873
Did you? Looked like office for iPad. MS doesn’t even have a windows arm version of office.

I'm not sure what playing dumb like this gets some of you, but that was Office for Mac. It looks like the iPad version because they use similar colour schemes.

What makes you think they have something for Apples cpu that is remotely desktop level?

Do you think they started from scratch? They have an existing app that they likely could port to Arm faster than they can bring the iPad versions up to speed. MS can move when they want to.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tagbert

richinaus

macrumors 68020
Oct 26, 2014
2,393
2,144
My point previously, that seems to have got lost, and is relevant to this is that the Mac apps are not as good as windows on intel.
Yes, they showed apps running, but I don’t want already sub par apps being emulated/ translated on the fly. That is not acceptable for professional work.

I really hope the developers who make my current apps get on board as I cannot find a shred of evidence they are moving to AS !
It’s good that MS will have office, but is that just the iOS version on steroids or new? I bet the former.

It certainly will take several years before all this is resolved .
 
  • Angry
Reactions: Tagbert
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.