How does it work without a file system?

[cynics]

OP: AirDrop from the share menu will get your files from your iPad to your Mac I do it all the time.

However I guess it should be noted that some people seem to have a lot of difficulty getting AirDrop to work properly. I have a 100% success rate thankfully.

 

[cynics]

Can someone give me a very specific real world usage case that a user accessible file system would be beneficial?

EDIT : And I don't mean turning your tablet into a glorified thumb drive.

 

[Krevnik]

Can someone give me a very specific real world usage case that a user accessible file system would be beneficial?

EDIT : And I don't mean turning your tablet into a glorified thumb drive.

For me, it's really about making things take fewer steps. If there was a shared file area, like your Documents folder on your Mac, then when I want to work with that file in multiple apps, it is a lot less painful.

It doesn't help that there are APIs that devs can use, but are convoluted. So developers don't use them. Which means more copying of files between apps, trying to remember which version is in which app, and not being able to use the features that would save time. I really hope Apple isn't oblivious to the fact that a year later, the Document Storage Provider API has basically failed to achieve its goals.

 

[sonicrobby]

Hello, I am a Mac user but I use Samsung Galaxy Note due to the S-pen. I am considering to switch to iPad PRO. I heard that in IOS used by iPad, there is no file system. I cannot understand this as when user creates a document, it is saved as a file. Am I right? Why people said that there is no file system in IOS?!

iOS does have a file system, its just hidden and cannot be natively accessed. However, if they release a jailbreak for 9.1 where the iPad Pro is supported, you can download an app called "iFile" which gives you access to all of the file systems.

As far as files that you create, likely it will be stored in iCloud Drive (similar to google drive or one drive). They provide 5GB of free storage, but for a dollar a month, you'll get bumped up to 50GB. For a dollar a month, theres no reason not to do it IMO.

 

[Count Blah]

It's easy. At this time, do not switch peterpan. iOS is not build to be productive for certain tasks. As rowspaxe and joeblow have stated, seemingly simple tasks are overly complex. Apple's insistence in maximizing every penny possible, has hamstrung the user into trying to find alternatives for certain tasks.

When s2mikey is NOT on apple's side , you KNOW there are some serious shortcomings to this "PRO" device.

In every glowing article posted about the PRO here, I always try to post early in the threat, inquiring about the filesystem. Hopefully it highlights the problems for those thinking about what peterpan is considering.

The PRO is a slightly beefier, consumer consumption Air 2, with a Steve Jobs loathed stylis, no matter what you hear to the contrary.

 

[cynics]

For me, it's really about making things take fewer steps. If there was a shared file area, like your Documents folder on your Mac, then when I want to work with that file in multiple apps, it is a lot less painful.

It doesn't help that there are APIs that devs can use, but are convoluted. So developers don't use them. Which means more copying of files between apps, trying to remember which version is in which app, and not being able to use the features that would save time. I really hope Apple isn't oblivious to the fact that a year later, the Document Storage Provider API has basically failed to achieve its goals.

So you want a unified file system, not necessarily user accessible.

It sounds like your issues would be resolved if devs used the proper APIs albeit if Apple implemented them better.

 

[Badrottie]

Hello, I am a Mac user but I use Samsung Galaxy Note due to the S-pen. I am considering to switch to iPad PRO. I heard that in IOS used by iPad, there is no file system. I cannot understand this as when user creates a document, it is saved as a file. Am I right? Why people said that there is no file system in IOS?!

If you wanted file management then you should stay with Galaxy Note or Surface Pro

 

[joeblow7777]

Can someone give me a very specific real world usage case that a user accessible file system would be beneficial?

EDIT : And I don't mean turning your tablet into a glorified thumb drive.

Just something as simple as being able to decide exactly where my downloads go would be great. And being able to make folders with any type of file I want, and have shortcuts to them right on my home screen. Instead of going to the process of, "The file I want is an mpg. video, have to access that through the VLC app. Now I need a pdf. Do I have to go through Adobe for that, or can I access it through Documents. Which of those will the mail app allow me to access to add an attachment from again?"

The different apps really are too sandboxed.

And turning my tablet into a "glorified thumb drive" as you call it is huge! On my Nexus 7, if I want to put some documents, a movie, and some songs on it, it's just a matter of plug it in, drag and drop, and they're in whatever folder I want, or even right on my home screen. For iOS, everything from my PC has to be managed through iTunes. If I want to transfer to or from a PC that isn't mine, and therefore doesn't have my iTunes installed, it then becomes a matter of figuring out how best to transfer via the cloud, and depending on the wifi connection available, possibly wait an hour for a 3 GB movie to transfer when it could have taken 30 seconds via USB.

 

[cynics]

Just something as simple as being able to decide exactly where my downloads go would be great. And being able to make folders with any type of file I want, and have shortcuts to them right on my home screen. Instead of going to the process of, "The file I want is an mpg. video, have to access that through the VLC app. Now I need a pdf. Do I have to go through Adobe for that, or can I access it through Documents. Which of those will the mail app allow me to access to add an attachment from again?"

The different apps really are too sandboxed.

And turning my tablet into a "glorified thumb drive" as you call it is huge! On my Nexus 7, if I want to put some documents, a movie, and some songs on it, it's just a matter of plug it in, drag and drop, and they're in whatever folder I want, or even right on my home screen. For iOS, everything from my PC has to be managed through iTunes. If I want to transfer to or from a PC that isn't mine, and therefore doesn't have my iTunes installed, it then becomes a matter of figuring out how best to transfer via the cloud, and depending on the wifi connection available, possibly wait an hour for a 3 GB movie to transfer when it could have taken 30 seconds via USB.

I completely understand your scenarios but that's why I asked for a very specific real world case. For example I don't ask myself which app is going to open a pdf, do you really not know or is that for sake of argument? I'm assuming the latter because I know you are smart enough to know that stuff.

I thought I would have a ton of issues when I switched from Android too but it's no where near as bad as I thought. And the more I see Apple try to accommodate others peoples whims the more I watch the products become more like the competition including all the negative aspects, namely reliability.

The thumb drive thing is huge I agree. However if you are just moving files an actual thumb drive is a better approach. I have a 32 gb Kingston on my key ring that cost me 8 dollars on Amazon. It doesn't require battery power, it doesn't require special wires like a lightning cable (you mentioned if the computer doesn't have iTunes therefore there will be no Apple cables so you'll need to bring that? For sake of argument again?) and it's always with me and yes it can be encrypted plus it has universal capability.



EDIT : I want to make it clear I'm in no way saying Apples way of doing things is the best, it's far from it. I've just adjusted to the different approach and all the fears I had ended up being at the very worst minor inconveniences but usually non issues. And while I can THINK of a few things that COULD be a problem, they rarely apply to real world use.

 

[joeblow7777]

I completely understand your scenarios but that's why I asked for a very specific real world case. For example I don't ask myself which app is going to open a pdf, do you really not know or is that for sake of argument? I'm assuming the latter because I know you are smart enough to know that stuff.

I thought I would have a ton of issues when I switched from Android too but it's no where near as bad as I thought. And the more I see Apple try to accommodate others peoples whims the more I watch the products become more like the competition including all the negative aspects, namely reliability.

The thumb drive thing is huge I agree. However if you are just moving files an actual thumb drive is a better approach. I have a 32 gb Kingston on my key ring that cost me 8 dollars on Amazon. It doesn't require battery power, it doesn't require special wires like a lightning cable (you mentioned if the computer doesn't have iTunes therefore there will be no Apple cables so you'll need to bring that? For sake of argument again?) and it's always with me and yes it can be encrypted plus it has universal capability.

View attachment 597252

EDIT : I want to make it clear I'm in no way saying Apples way of doing things is the best, it's far from it. I've just adjusted to the different approach and all the fears I had ended up being at the very worst minor inconveniences but usually non issues. And while I can THINK of a few things that COULD be a problem, they rarely apply to real world use.

You're right, I might have overstated my exasperation a little for the sake of argument, but as someone who's used an Android tablet for nearly two years, and has owned an iPad for less than a month, the lack of centralized file management does leave me looking for work-arounds at times. For instance, not all apps work nicely with the stock email app (or my personally preferred email app, "CloudMagic") to allow for attachments. It's annoying that it's an app-by-app issue. The same goes for downloads. I wish there was just a centralized download folder which I can have on the home screen, and files or media I download from the web, or email attachments, could just go there and then I could decide what to do with them.

Let me again emphasize that I'm new to iPad ownership. I've been using iPhones for years, but my usage and expectations for a tablet are different than for a phone. So I'm day by day becoming more accustomed to the iOS way of doing things, but I don't think that it will ever feel as natural and unrestricted as what I'm used to with Android and Windows, and I do appreciate that it comes with its own advantages such as better security, smoother operation, and less bugs (in theory). I also perhaps make things a bit more difficult for myself because I refuse to go all in with the Apple ecosystem, and I still use an Windows PC, so while Airdrop between my phone and iPad are an option, not so with my laptop. Do you think it's possible that Apple could one day release a Windows Airdrop app? That would actually help a lot.

Regarding the thumb drive, I own and carry a number of them, but they don't help when it comes to transferring content between my iPad and PC. As I mentioned, needing to depend on iTunes or a cloud service to get a movie from my PC on to my tablet is less than ideal.

 

[sparksd]

You're right, I might have overstated my exasperation a little for the sake of argument, but as someone who's used an Android tablet for nearly two years, and has owned an iPad for less than a month, the lack of centralized file management does leave me looking for work-arounds at times. For instance, not all apps work nicely with the stock email app (or my personally preferred email app, "CloudMagic") to allow for attachments. It's annoying that it's an app-by-app issue. The same goes for downloads. I wish there was just a centralized download folder which I can have on the home screen, and files or media I download from the web, or email attachments, could just go there and then I could decide what to do with them.

Let me again emphasize that I'm new to iPad ownership. I've been using iPhones for years, but my usage and expectations for a tablet are different than for a phone. So I'm day by day becoming more accustomed to the iOS way of doing things, but I don't think that it will ever feel as natural and unrestricted as what I'm used to with Android and Windows, and I do appreciate that it comes with its own advantages such as better security, smoother operation, and less bugs (in theory). I also perhaps make things a bit more difficult for myself because I refuse to go all in with the Apple ecosystem, and I still use an Windows PC, so while Airdrop between my phone and iPad are an option, not so with my laptop. Do you think it's possible that Apple could one day release a Windows Airdrop app? That would actually help a lot.

Regarding the thumb drive, I own and carry a number of them, but they don't help when it comes to transferring content between my iPad and PC. As I mentioned, needing to depend on iTunes or a cloud service to get a movie from my PC on to my tablet is less than ideal.

Same here - years on Android, PC is Windows. For the thumb drive-like transfer, look at this:

http://www.leefco.com/ios-products

I just got (literally, 20 minutes ago) the iAccess microSD reader. I put a 64GB NTFS-formatted card into it, plugged it into my Air 2, was prompted to open their app (I had already loaded it from the App Store), and I was able to access (view) photos and videos I had on the card. I could transfer them to the Air 2, either into their app or select from others (copy to their sandbox file environment). I'll have to play with this some more but so far it looks quite handy at least as an external storage device for content.

 

[joeblow7777]

Same here - years on Android, PC is Windows. For the thumb drive-like transfer, look at this:

http://www.leefco.com/ios-products

I just got (literally, 20 minutes ago) the iAccess microSD reader. I put a 64GB NTFS-formatted card into it, plugged it into my Air 2, was prompted to open their app (I had already loaded it from the App Store), and I was able to access (view) photos and videos I had on the card. I could transfer them to the Air 2, either into their app or select from others (copy to their sandbox file environment). I'll have to play with this some more but so far it looks quite handy at least as an external storage device for content.

Interesting.

 

[Starfia]

It's a big choice not to have a visible file system in the traditional sense that PCs always have had. To many people, that seems to make more sense, and for some power users, it's understandable that they just can't work with an iPad as their main device at this point.

Some people seem sated by apps like GoodReader, which sort of exists as an app which contains a file system, able to import as many file types as possible, and share to any other apps which can work with them.

 

[masands]

Like others have said, it does have a file system but it's convoluted. Each app can only see its own file system or a cloud storage system like iCloud Drive.

Let me give you an example of how bad it is. As a photographer you have decided to switch from your Mac/PC to the new iPad Pro. You have approximately 100 files on your SD cardand they are in RAW format (~30mb each). So how do you get it to the iPad Pro? One option is to buy a expensive Camera Connector Kit and the second is to use iTunes. So you do all that and finally have all your photos on the built in Photos app. Now you need to get it somehow to a 3rd party application which handle RAW editing. You can select each file and choose "Open With" and the your App X. This will create a copy of the file in App X for editing (so now you have 2 versions taking 60mb on the iPad). You then edit the photo and save it. How do you get it off the iPad? The easier option is using a cloud storage solution. So you do "Open In" again and choose, let says iCloud Drive. So now you have 3 copies of the same photo. One in Photos, one in App X and one in iCloud Drive.

Now imagine that with 100 photos. You'll want to throw the iPad into a wall.

Stick with your Surface Pro/Galaxy.

 

[emembee]

i am pretty sure that Apple want us to have a desktop or laptop or home server in addition to the iPad. Agreed that moving lots of data is just not what iOs is about. But if the Pro can do 70% things we want except moving data, then just hang on to an old mac or pc for upload and download perhaps?

 

[mr.bee]

As many already said, there is a file system via iCloud Drive.

A disadvantage about iOS is the way it handles workflows between apps. A standard file system you 'transform'/ move a file through your process flow. But in iOS for every process step a copy of the file needs to be made. It's different.

 

[sparksd]

Like others have said, it does have a file system but it's convoluted. Each app can only see its own file system or a cloud storage system like iCloud Drive.

Let me give you an example of how bad it is. As a photographer you have decided to switch from your Mac/PC to the new iPad Pro. You have approximately 100 files on your SD cardand they are in RAW format (~30mb each). So how do you get it to the iPad Pro? One option is to buy a expensive Camera Connector Kit and the second is to use iTunes. So you do all that and finally have all your photos on the built in Photos app. Now you need to get it somehow to a 3rd party application which handle RAW editing. You can select each file and choose "Open With" and the your App X. This will create a copy of the file in App X for editing (so now you have 2 versions taking 60mb on the iPad). You then edit the photo and save it. How do you get it off the iPad? The easier option is using a cloud storage solution. So you do "Open In" again and choose, let says iCloud Drive. So now you have 3 copies of the same photo. One in Photos, one in App X and one in iCloud Drive.

Now imagine that with 100 photos. You'll want to throw the iPad into a wall.

Stick with your Surface Pro/Galaxy.

Yeah, why I do my photo work on travel using my Asus TF700T 10" tablet with clamshell keyboard. I put my camera's SD card in the keyboard's SD card slot, use a file browser to select all of the RAW files at once and copy them to an internal memory folder of choice (or to the internal microSD card), use Photo Mate R2 to edit them from that location and export JPEG to another folder, use QuickPic to view those JPEGs, and then copy the files to a backup portable HDD plugged into the keyboard's USB port. I gave up trying to emulate a similar workflow on my Air 2 - I use it primarily a a consumption device alone.

 

[SHirsch999]

The PRO is a slightly beefier, consumer consumption Air 2, with a Steve Jobs loathed stylis, no matter what you hear to the contrary.

What Steve Jobs said about using a stylus is getting to be a tired argument. He was referring to using a stylus as the main input method for the device, not using it for writing and drawing.

 

[SHirsch999]

Like others have said, it does have a file system but it's convoluted. Each app can only see its own file system or a cloud storage system like iCloud Drive.

Let me give you an example of how bad it is. As a photographer you have decided to switch from your Mac/PC to the new iPad Pro. You have approximately 100 files on your SD cardand they are in RAW format (~30mb each). So how do you get it to the iPad Pro? One option is to buy a expensive Camera Connector Kit and the second is to use iTunes. So you do all that and finally have all your photos on the built in Photos app. Now you need to get it somehow to a 3rd party application which handle RAW editing. You can select each file and choose "Open With" and the your App X. This will create a copy of the file in App X for editing (so now you have 2 versions taking 60mb on the iPad). You then edit the photo and save it. How do you get it off the iPad? The easier option is using a cloud storage solution. So you do "Open In" again and choose, let says iCloud Drive. So now you have 3 copies of the same photo. One in Photos, one in App X and one in iCloud Drive.

Now imagine that with 100 photos. You'll want to throw the iPad into a wall.

Stick with your Surface Pro/Galaxy.

Most people are not professional photographers. An iPad is not for everyone and every use case. For me, especially with what iOS 9 has brought, it is pretty much all I need. I have no trouble at all moving files around on the iPad as well as from device to device. Apps like Dropbox and goodreader as well as photosync and airdrop handle all of my needs with little effort involved. I almost never use our laptops any more.

 

[sparksd]

Most people are not professional photographers. An iPad is not for everyone and every use case. For me, especially with what iOS 9 has brought, it is pretty much all I need. I have no trouble at all moving files around on the iPad as well as from device to device. Apps like Dropbox and goodreader as well as photosync and airdrop handle all of my needs with little effort involved. I almost never use our laptops any more.

I'm not a pro photographer, just an avid amateur needing a solution (which I have). I agree completely on the use case point - I actually love my Air 2 and use it more than any other device now. It just doesn't fill every need (use case) I have. But it does a wonderful job for other uses and I have been able to use a variety of apps to accomplish on it what I want to (awkwardly at times, I admit).

 

[Phil A.]

Like others have said, it does have a file system but it's convoluted. Each app can only see its own file system or a cloud storage system like iCloud Drive.

Let me give you an example of how bad it is. As a photographer you have decided to switch from your Mac/PC to the new iPad Pro. You have approximately 100 files on your SD cardand they are in RAW format (~30mb each). So how do you get it to the iPad Pro? One option is to buy a expensive Camera Connector Kit and the second is to use iTunes. So you do all that and finally have all your photos on the built in Photos app. Now you need to get it somehow to a 3rd party application which handle RAW editing. You can select each file and choose "Open With" and the your App X. This will create a copy of the file in App X for editing (so now you have 2 versions taking 60mb on the iPad). You then edit the photo and save it. How do you get it off the iPad? The easier option is using a cloud storage solution. So you do "Open In" again and choose, let says iCloud Drive. So now you have 3 copies of the same photo. One in Photos, one in App X and one in iCloud Drive.

Now imagine that with 100 photos. You'll want to throw the iPad into a wall.

Stick with your Surface Pro/Galaxy.

Or you could add them to the iCloud Photo Library on your computer and then edit them from within photos either natively or by using another editor that supports photos extensions

Or you could use Lightroom and Lightroom mobile

Neither of those options need you to make multiple copies of a photo and work seamlessly

 

[sparksd]

Or you could add them to the iCloud Photo Library on your computer and then edit them from within photos either natively or by using another editor that supports photos extensions

Or you could use Lightroom and Lightroom mobile

Neither of those options need you to make multiple copies of a photo and work seamlessly

The problem is with RAW format - Lightroom Mobile does not work with it:

http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2014/04/the-field-triage-opportunity-for-lr-mobile.html

Most mobile tools that do "work with RAW" actually work on the embedded JPEG preview image within the RAW file. After a lot of research, I have essentially given up on working with my RAW photos on my Air 2 and use my Android tablet (or a laptop) for it when traveling.

 

[Phil A.]

The problem is with RAW format - Lightroom Mobile does not work with it:

http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2014/04/the-field-triage-opportunity-for-lr-mobile.html

Most mobile tools that do "work with RAW" actually work on the embedded JPEG preview image within the RAW file. After a lot of research, I have essentially given up on working with my RAW photos on my Air 2 and use my Android tablet (or a laptop) for it when traveling.

That only applies if you upload your photos to your iPad: If you put them into Lightroom on your PC then sync them to LR Mobile it generates "smart previews" and any edits you do are reflected in the raw photos stored in Lightroom on your computer. So, while you're not technically working with the raw photos on your iPad you are editing the raw photos stored on your computer via your iPad. Might not work for everyone, and obviously isn't a solution if you want to use your iPad as your point of entry into Lightroom, but it's fine for what I need to do with photos on my iPad (quick edits, tagging, selecting pics and rejects, etc)

 

[engineerben]

Yeah, why I do my photo work on travel using my Asus TF700T 10" tablet with clamshell keyboard. I put my camera's SD card in the keyboard's SD card slot, use a file browser to select all of the RAW files at once and copy them to an internal memory folder of choice (or to the internal microSD card), use Photo Mate R2 to edit them from that location and export JPEG to another folder, use QuickPic to view those JPEGs, and then copy the files to a backup portable HDD plugged into the keyboard's USB port. I gave up trying to emulate a similar workflow on my Air 2 - I use it primarily a a consumption device alone.

This is basically a laptop/desktop workflow. No problem with that, of course, and if it works for you, then that's cool.

As Phil A commented a few messages down from yours, there is an alternate workflow that doesn't involve all the memory devices and still works rather well. I think the bottom line is this: if you already have a tightly integrated workflow that depends on the presence of a traditional file system, then the iPad will never be your "primary" computer (it won't be mine, but I want the Pro for sketches and presentations - I love to travel light). But realize that a lot of very creative people don't like having to muck around with the file manager, find it confusing and are happy to avoid it if possible.

 

[sparksd]

This is basically a laptop/desktop workflow. No problem with that, of course, and if it works for you, then that's cool.

As Phil A commented a few messages down from yours, there is an alternate workflow that doesn't involve all the memory devices and still works rather well. I think the bottom line is this: if you already have a tightly integrated workflow that depends on the presence of a traditional file system, then the iPad will never be your "primary" computer (it won't be mine, but I want the Pro for sketches and presentations - I love to travel light). But realize that a lot of very creative people don't like having to muck around with the file manager, find it confusing and are happy to avoid it if possible.

Absolutely. The use case I'm describing is when I am traveling and don't have access to my primary computer (and potentially not the Internet, either).