how does one approach a person who is autistic?

[millerj123]

You can't go around saying a group of people are a certain way without actually understanding them in the same way you can't fix a computer if you know nothing about them.

All autism research is vauge at the moment so the books you talked about could easily be wrong, there are probably other books which say the complete opposite.

Psychologists and Psychiatrists specifically study people. They don't have to be one of a particular type to study them.

What they are doing is saying this: whatever the incidence of alcoholism is in the entire human population, it is higher in the specific group who are on the Autism spectrum. This says nothing about any one person, but rather the entire group as a whole.

I don't think it's surprising at all. Considering the challenges faced, it's a lonely difficult road to travel. My son is autistic, and that has changed just about every aspect of my own life. He's on a restricted diet, so if we're out and about, and get hungry, if we haven't brought lunch, we go hungry until we get home. Trying to get gluten and dairy free foods at a regular restaurant is just about impossible.

 

[PowerFullMac]

Psychologists and Psychiatrists specifically study people. They don't have to be one of a particular type to study them.

What they are doing is saying this: whatever the incidence of alcoholism is in the entire human population, it is higher in the specific group who are on the Autism spectrum. This says nothing about any one person, but rather the entire group as a whole.

I don't think it's surprising at all. Considering the challenges faced, it's a lonely difficult road to travel. My son is autistic, and that has changed just about every aspect of my own life. He's on a restricted diet, so if we're out and about, and get hungry, if we haven't brought lunch, we go hungry until we get home. Trying to get gluten and dairy free foods at a regular restaurant is just about impossible.

It's a spectrum disorder, it effects everyone who has a ASD in different ways so to say everyone on the spectrum is more likely to do anything is just stupid.

In fact, in my case, I never want to drink any alcohol at all, I know that's not the same for everyone but it helps the point I made above.

It all depends on the individual, autistic people are still people so all have different personalities... This, again, solidifies my point.

 

[rhsgolfer33]

You can't go around saying a group of people are a certain way without actually understanding them in the same way you can't fix a computer if you know nothing about them.

All autism research is vauge at the moment so the books you talked about could easily be wrong, there are probably other books which say the complete opposite.

Thats ridicoulous, you don't think Psychiatrist and Psycologist know enough about Autism and Asperger's to conduct studies about the increased risk of alcohol abuse in people with those conditions? You clearly have little knowledge of Psychology or how research and studies are conducted.

Not all Autism research is vague at the moment, thats utter crap, I could pull about a couple hundred articles and books from the last 10 years that are more specific on Autism than you can even begin to image. Its a very well studied disorder. Just searching one database I've found over 1300 articles related to Autism; I have access to about 20 more of these databases. The link between alcohol abuse and Autism is not fully studied, though the introductory research suggests there is an higher prevalence of alcohol abuse in people with Asperger's and Autism.

Also, Autism is not really a disease as you stated earier, its classified as a Pervasive Developmental Disorder; you might try reading a DSM IV before making statements. If you are using the very, very broad general public term disease to encompass any kind of disorder, pain, injuries, disabilities, etc, then yes, it is a disease. But according to the people that don't know anything about Autism, its a Pervasive Developmental Disorder, not a disease.

I would love for you to find me a book that says that Asperger's and Autistic people are less likely to abuse alcohol, good luck with that.

 

[millerj123]

It's a spectrum disorder, it effects everyone who has a ASD in different ways so to say everyone on the spectrum is more likely to do anything is just stupid.

In fact, in my case, I never want to drink any alcohol at all, I know that's not the same for everyone but it helps the point I made above.

It all depends on the individual, autistic people are still people so all have different personalities... This, again, solidifies my point.

Let me try one more time. This isn't about you as an individual. It is about anyone on the spectrum as a whole.

I personally think it's great that you don't want alcohol. That actually has nothing to do with the overall incidence of alcoholism for folks on the spectrum. We are talking about two separate things.

 

[rhsgolfer33]

It's a spectrum disorder, it effects everyone who has a ASD in different ways so to say everyone on the spectrum is more likely to do anything is just stupid.

In fact, in my case, I never want to drink any alcohol at all, I know that's not the same for everyone but it helps the point I made above.

It all depends on the individual, autistic people are still people so all have different personalities... This, again, solidifies my point.

That doesn't solidify your point at all, individual opinion is nothing in the face of real research. You just happen to be on the other side, the group that doesn't abuse alcohol, that can't be generalized to any other autistic person.

Humanity is a spectrum, but that doesn't make it stupid to say that a certain group is more likely to contract AIDS or a certain group is more likely to commit suicide; just as it doesn't make it stupid to say that people with Autism and Asperger's are more likely to abuse alcohol. Regardless of a spectrum, scientific statistics are still valid. Sure, further research should be done on people with different levels of Autism, but until it is done, the studies say that people with Asperger's and Autism are at increased risk of alcohol abuse.

 

[PowerFullMac]

Let me try one more time. This isn't about you as an individual. It is about anyone on the spectrum as a whole.

I personally think it's great that you don't want alcohol. That actually has nothing to do with the overall incidence of alcoholism for folks on the spectrum. We are talking about two separate things.

I know this is not just about me and I acnolwedged that point in the post... Seems like you didn't even read it properly because you missed the point entirly!

The point was that people with autism are still people and so will make their own choices and have their own personalitys... Some may be like me and never want alcohol and some may be heavy drinkers, the point is they, like all people, are all different.

rsgolfer33: well sorry I'm not a medical professional

 

[rhsgolfer33]

rsgolfer33: well sorry I'm not a medical professional

Neither am I, but I know how to read and do research. It isn't even about being a medical professional, Psychology students all over the country know how read and research in journals, heck, most of them know how to conduct a study. You can't just make claims based on personal experience, they have very little meaning. Try putting that in an advanced level paper, the professor would laugh you out of the classroom.

 

[PowerFullMac]

Neither am I, but I know how to read and do research. It isn't even about being a medical professional, Psychology students all over the country know how read and research in journals, heck, most of them know how to conduct a study. You can't just make claims based on personal experience, they have very little meaning. Try putting that in an advanced level paper, the professor would laugh you out of the classroom.

But I'm not claiming to be a psyology student, am I?

I have read about 5 books on Asperger's and I have it myself... Who cares if I didn't read some DMC IV or whatever?

 

[rhsgolfer33]

I have read about 5 books on Asperger's and I have it myself... Who cares if I didn't read some DMC IV or whatever?

It doesn't matter that you're not claiming to be a Psychology student, there is no excuse for not doing research and basing claims solely on personal experience, every high school student knows this.

The DSM IV is the book published by the American Psychiatric Association for diagnosing psychiatric conditions, I would not expect that you, or most Psychiatrist have read the whole thing. It gives a good baseline for diagnosing Autism and puts Autism into the Pervasive Developmental Disorder category. Its the book that is widely used by Psychiatrists and Psychologists alike when diagnosing many mental disorders.

 

[millerj123]

I know this is not just about me and I acnolwedged that point in the post... Seems like you didn't even read it properly because you missed the point entirly!

The point was that people with autism are still people and so will make their own choices and have their own personalitys... Some may be like me and never want alcohol and some may be heavy drinkers, the point is they, like all people, are all different.

Huh. You are correct. I didn't see that as your point anywhere. I saw comments about how the study into Asperger's and Autism is weak, and that you can't make generalities about a group.

Those are the points I was responding to. In fact, you can see the two specific sentences I was responding to earlier in this thread. I even quoted them. Your second sentence was a challenge that you could find books that say that alcoholism is lower. I'm saying you probably can't.

As for folks on the spectrum being individuals, well, why would I argue with that?

 

[OutThere]

Sure, further research should be done on people with different levels of Autism, but until it is done, the studies say that people with Asperger's and Autism are at increased risk of alcohol abuse.

I'd be really interested to know if this has anything to do with the fact that the largest and most obvious component of asperger's is social awkwardness/inability and the fact that alcohol is an easy social lubricant...?

 

[PowerFullMac]

It doesn't matter that you're not claiming to be a Psychology student, there is no excuse for not doing research and basing claims solely on personal experience, every high school student knows this.

The DSM IV is the book published by the American Psychiatric Association for diagnosing psychiatric conditions, I would not expect that you, or most Psychiatrist have read the whole thing. It gives a good baseline for diagnosing Autism and puts Autism into the Pervasive Developmental Disorder category. Its the book that is widely used by Psychiatrists and Psychologists alike when diagnosing many mental disorders.

I'm not American, I don't wanna read stuff from American research institutions.

I am not basing anything soley on personal experience! It's also from the books I've read (which counts as research) and the other Aspies (people with Asperger's) I know.

 

[rhsgolfer33]

I'd be really interested to know if this has anything to do with the fact that the largest and most obvious component of asperger's is social awkwardness/inability and the fact that alcohol is an easy social lubricant...?

Thats what some of the research purposes, its actually really interesting. If I were as Psychology major there is no question I would be trying to convince my professors to work on this with me as a research project.

I'm not American, I don't wanna read stuff from American research institutions.

I am not basing anything soley on personal experience! It's also from the books I've read (which counts as research) and the other Aspies (people with Asperger's) I know.

Well then you should look at the ICD 10, which still defines Autism and Asperger's as a Pervasive Developmental Disorder. Additionally, the authors of "Asperger Syndrome and Alcohol: Drinking To Cope" are both from the U.K..

Exactly, its based on personal experience, you just proved my claim; basing something on yourself and other people you know is called personal experience. If you can't cite that reading, which probably had nothing to do with alcohol and autism/asperger's, then you're not really presenting research, your stating something you remember. Your memory doesn't count as a specific fact unless a valid source is provided with it. When you can provide a scholarly book or article that says people with autism/asperger's have no risk of increased alcohol abuse or less risk than the general population I might consider believing you. The thing is, though, you won't find one, because most of the research that has been done says there is an increased prevalence of alcohol abuse among people with autism and aspergers.

 

[PowerFullMac]

Well then you should look at the ICD 10, which still defines Autism and Asperger's as a Pervasive Developmental Disorder.

Exactly, its based on personal experience, you just proved my claim; basing something on yourself and other people you know is called personal experience. If you can't cite that reading, which probably had nothing to do with alcohol and autism/asperger's, then you're not really presenting research, your stating something you remember. Your memory doesn't count as a specific fact unless a valid source is provided with it.

You just proved you know little about Asperger's and how the momory of Aspies work...

Anyway, a lot of what I'm saying is based on my research with a little personal experience to back it up.

 

[millerj123]

You just proved you know little about Asperger's and how the momory of Aspies work...

Anyway, a lot of what I'm saying is based on my research with a little personal experience to back it up.

No. Even if your memory is 100% photographic, you still would need to provide citations as proof. Otherwise, how can we also review the evidence?

 

[PowerFullMac]

No. Even if your memory is 100% photographic, you still would need to provide citations as proof. Otherwise, how can we also review the evidence?

You still said "you can't cite that reading" when in fact, if I am interested in something I can usually recite some to do with it to the exact words and THIS APPLIES TO MOST ASPIES NOT JUST ME.

It's past 9:00, I'm too tired to do research at the moment, I'll get back to you tomorrow with my evidence.

 

[rhsgolfer33]

You still said "you can't cite that reading" when in fact, if I am interested in something I can usually recite some to do with it to the exact words and THIS APPLIES TO MOST ASPIES NOT JUST ME.

It's past 9:00, I'm too tired to do research at the moment, I'll get back to you tomorrow with my evidence.

Recite is different than cite. Cite means give me a quote, an exact quote, with the name of the book or article, and generally a page number can be quite helpful. I have severe doubts that most Aspies can give me an exact quote with the book title and page number for everything interesting they've read. All you've proven so far is that you have little knowledge of how to formulate an academic argument.

I'm pretty much done with this argument, I know what I feel the truth is and what the majority of research on Aspergers/Autism and alcohol abuse reports, so I think I'll stick with my opinion. I don't have enough time to continue to argue with a tape recorder as finals are coming up, so I think I'm pretty much done with this topic.

 

[PowerFullMac]

Recite is different than cite. Cite means give me a quote, an exact quote, with the name of the book or article, and generally a page number can be quite helpful. I have severe doubts that most Aspies can give me an exact quote with the book title and page number for everything interesting they've read. All you've proven so far is that you have little knowledge of how to formulate an academic argument.

I'm pretty much done with this argument, I know what I feel the truth is and what the majority of research on Aspergers/Autism and alcohol abuse reports, so I think I'll stick with my opinion. I don't have enough time to continue to argue with a tape recorder as finals are coming up, so I think I'm pretty much done with this topic.

There are plenty of Aspies who can give exact page numbers etc. of things they read of it's something they are interested in. Again, this is from research and personal experience. Ask a Aspie who likes computers about his favorite type and see what he tells you... Research proves that Aspies can have a encyclyopedeic knowledge of their interests.