How LTE changes the VZ vs. ATT battle

[cynics]

Verizon's LTE coverage as of mid August was more then all the other carriers combined, covering about 75% of the population (not area).

They only take on new smartphones as they push to be 100% LTE before too long.

So I really wouldn't worry about what the fall back speeds are for too much longer. Their 3G network will be cleared up quite a bit. So it should be tolerable.

 

[BiggAW]

I don't really trust AT&T's magic they've been working lately. If I was them, I would make sure that by iPhone launch day I just had a high number of LTE cities. Even if its not tested and ready. Just so that I don't get crushed in the news. Verizon has about 350, AT&T needs to at least hit 100+ to not look foolish.

I'm positing that data connection reliability is more important and its not about speed so much anyone. Which they are half as reliable at doing. Will be interesting to hear feedback after the initial "omg it's fast" days.

It's mostly longer term, but so is Verizon's AWS LTE at this point...

I'm not saying it's not or that AT&T has better speed or anything (they don't in the long term, they just have fewer LTE phones right now).

I think AT&T has been doing a good job getting more phones, rolling LTE coverage out. They need to finish fixing HSPA+. They did in SF, they have done it in other places, they need to do NYC and local issues that crop up in nearly every market on a tower here or there.

 

[cynics]

Incorrect. ATT's ping times are often less than 70ms. That's a very low ping time (for me). I have both ATT and Verizon LTE service and am in Orlando.

I had sub 50 ms ping on Verizon. Just checked using a Verizon wifi hotspot (LTE tablet).

Not too shabby. I don't have a way to check att's.

 

[Photogdave]

AT&T now throttles you after 3 GB for those who still have unlimited, like myself.

Bad news, Verizon does too so its no better. If I hit 3GB, once i hit a "congested" towns tower per Verizon, I'm throttled. Then Unlimited Data is useless. Its old and there's nothing we can do. That's why I decided when the iPhone 5 gets here, I'm hitting the Shared plan that's tiered. At least then my speeds wont be throttled. You guys know, its painful when they cut you to dial up speeds. And I swear, they do it to iPhone users first. They do not like iPhone at Verizon.
Go in and talk to them about it. They spend hrs trying to convince you to by the latest greatest Android phone. When I went in and tried to purchase the 4s, I was shunned like the red headed stepchild. They were very short, "We don't have any iPhone's in stock", "Why don't you look at the new HTC"

They also said, they've checked around no one else has any 4s either.
I went 5 miles down the road to Best Buy, and they had tons of 4s in all colors and sizes.
So, I think they throttle iPhone users early at Verizon. I remember the tech guy said when I was complaining about it that iPhone s use alot more data and that's why......why an attitude of them against us?
I love my Verizon coverage.....and speeds when Im not throttled, but the prices arent as good, and being shunned in stores sucks.....but oh well. I want quality.

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I had sub 50 ms ping on Verizon. Just checked using a Verizon wifi hotspot (LTE tablet).

Image

Not too shabby. I don't have a way to check att's.

I dont think ping has anything to do with the user experience/speed. I say this because, there's been times when Ive had my best download speeds with a 350ms ping. Go figure. Ill never understand exactly what affects Internet experience, I just know the numbers don't tell the whole story.

Also, these speed results on speedtest.net vary largley on which station you choose to test on too BTW.

 

[Weaselboy]

......why an attitude of them against us?

I suspect they are having to pay Apple far more for a subsidized iPhone they sell you than say an HTC phone, so over the term of the contract they are ahead if you go with the HTC.

Also, some phone manufacturers are paying a bonus for each phone sold. I believe I read somewhere Motorola was paying a $50 bonus to Verizon employees who sold one of their phones.

 

[Photogdave]

I suspect they are having to pay Apple far more for a subsidized iPhone they sell you than say an HTC phone, so over the term of the contract they are ahead if you go with the HTC.

Also, some phone manufacturers are paying a bonus for each phone sold. I believe I read somewhere Motorola was paying a $50 bonus to Verizon employees who sold one of their phones.

Maybe you're right, I didn't think of that. Apple, makes it clear they don't discount their products. Makes sense.
Maybe also that they were in the war for years with AT&T
of "iPhone vs Android" being ATT vs Verizon since they had no iPhone.
Cause im telling you, those Verizon workers are the biggest Android fan boys Ive ever seen.

"Whats the problem today"
"I have slow data speeds sometimes in certain towns"
"Lets take a look at your phone"....."Oh, its an iPhone, sorry but that's whats wrong. You need a new Android LTE device"

I swear that's the conversation Ive had. Its so frustrating.
No its you, its real fast when I'm not throttled......and quit trying to sell me a device. Every 3 months they push the latest greatest from Android and the old phone they sold you 3months ago is now crap.

 

[orangebluedevil]

Solved

This post from GigaOm basically covers the entire premise I was originally asking. If you are curious to ATT vs Verizon for LTE speed and reliability it's a great read.

http://gigaom.com/2012/04/14/solving-the-lte-puzzle-comparing-lte-performance/

 

[BiggAW]

iPhones don't inherently use any more data than Android, in fact they may use a bit less. However, in Verizon's situation, the iPhone users would, at this point, be by far the heavies on the 3G network, since the bulk of the Android users who use a lot of data have moved on to LTE.

 

[Photogdave]

iPhones don't inherently use any more data than Android, in fact they may use a bit less. However, in Verizon's situation, the iPhone users would, at this point, be by far the heavies on the 3G network, since the bulk of the Android users who use a lot of data have moved on to LTE.

Makes sense....but they did exactly say they use more data.
I never believed it. But recently watching Steve Jobs talk about the first iPhone, he stated that the iPhone was first phone ever to use actual real internet just like a desktop.

Looking back, the Verizon guy actually mentioned that very fact.....maybe theres something to it.
But I can definitly see that iPhones on 3G would be the majority now.

 

[Technarchy]

I prefer the greater HSPA+ coverage, and data caps are too low to make fat mobile LTE pipes really useful.

 

[silroc]

All the speed talk is great

But I need my calls to not drop out. Like they have been doing since June 2010 when I got on to AT&T iPhone 4.(NYC area)


Verizon for me this time. Slower or not, I need calls to never drop.

 

[bogatyr]

Bad news, Verizon does too so its no better. If I hit 3GB, once i hit a "congested" towns tower per Verizon, I'm throttled. Then Unlimited Data is useless. Its old and there's nothing we can do. That's why I decided when the iPhone 5 gets here, I'm hitting the Shared plan that's tiered. At least then my speeds wont be throttled. You guys know, its painful when they cut you to dial up speeds. And I swear, they do it to iPhone users first. They do not like iPhone at Verizon.
Go in and talk to them about it. They spend hrs trying to convince you to by the latest greatest Android phone. When I went in and tried to purchase the 4s, I was shunned like the red headed stepchild. They were very short, "We don't have any iPhone's in stock", "Why don't you look at the new HTC"

They also said, they've checked around no one else has any 4s either.
I went 5 miles down the road to Best Buy, and they had tons of 4s in all colors and sizes.
So, I think they throttle iPhone users early at Verizon. I remember the tech guy said when I was complaining about it that iPhone s use alot more data and that's why......why an attitude of them against us?
I love my Verizon coverage.....and speeds when Im not throttled, but the prices arent as good, and being shunned in stores sucks.....but oh well. I want quality.

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I dont think ping has anything to do with the user experience/speed. I say this because, there's been times when Ive had my best download speeds with a 350ms ping. Go figure. Ill never understand exactly what affects Internet experience, I just know the numbers don't tell the whole story.

Also, these speed results on speedtest.net vary largley on which station you choose to test on too BTW.

I use 10-80GB/mo when tethering, no throttling around Metro Detroit. Also ping has little effect on download (within reason) but has a huge effect on small transfers (I.e. multiplayer games and web pages).

 

[Photogdave]

This post from GigaOm basically covers the entire premise I was originally asking. If you are curious to ATT vs Verizon for LTE speed and reliability it's a great read.

http://gigaom.com/2012/04/14/solving-the-lte-puzzle-comparing-lte-performance/

There ya go. Theres a section there where they state the exact thing I did. Download speed tests favor ATT, but running phones side by side Verizon loads faster even when technically they shouldn't.( Not this exact statement, but same sentiment)
I should do some googleing to see why or hows its possible for ATT to download at 10mbps, Verizon 3 and yet the actual usage be so flipped.
Good artical

 

[aneftp]

All the speed talk is great

But I need my calls to not drop out. Like they have been doing since June 2010 when I got on to AT&T iPhone 4.(NYC area)


Verizon for me this time. Slower or not, I need calls to never drop.

For me especially with the way I hold the phone. I am always multi tasking so do not hold it like someone would normally hold it. Well the iPhone 4 has a horrible sensor placement. Even the so called software fix never solved this problem.

Once I upgraded to 4s. Maybe have one dropped call every month instead of 3 a day when I had the iPhone 4.

And when I sold the 4s to go back to the iPhone 4 temporarily until new iPhone is announced. Bamm. 5 dropped calls with the iPhone 4 again in a 1 hour period.

I truly believe the sensor is the real cause of most peoples dropped calls on the iPhone 4 despite the software fix.
Do yourself a favor. For one day. Try to make calls on speakerphone and see if u drop calls on the 4. I rarely dropped a call on iPhone 4 that way. It was always when I wasn't holding it correctly. Meaning against my shoulder etc. And its not the antenna gate either cause I have a case on it.

 

[orangebluedevil]

I truly believe the sensor is the real cause of most peoples dropped calls on the iPhone 4 despite the software fix.
Do yourself a favor. For one day. Try to make calls on speakerphone and see if u drop calls on the 4. I rarely dropped a call on iPhone 4 that way.

Yes. The iPhone 4 had antenna issues. And you don't have to "believe it", science proved it.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4971/apple-iphone-4s-review-att-verizon/2

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

LTE changes reliability of service. I've noticed that in spots where 3G is basically non-existent, LTE flourishes. I've even noticed that inside of elevators and basements I keep my LTE signal most of the time compared to 3G. LTE has been rock solid for me. Speaking from NYC on AT&T.

 

[orangebluedevil]

I prefer the greater HSPA+ coverage, and data caps are too low to make fat mobile LTE pipes really useful.

Then you should read the article, it explains the ATT HSPA+ coverage is trumped by Verizon's vastly superior LTE network.

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LTE changes reliability of service. I've noticed that in spots where 3G is basically non-existent, LTE flourishes. I've even noticed that inside of elevators and basements I keep my LTE signal most of the time compared to 3G. LTE has been rock solid for me. Speaking from NYC on AT&T.

That's very interesting thanks. I've been reading up on ATT vs Verizon LTE for indoor use.

Verizon uses 700 Mhz which technically lower frequencies should transmit futher into buildings. But ATT uses 1700 and 700 Mhz, and some articles say that the 1700 Mhz doens't transmit as far, but it's denser so that overcomes the distance. So I have seen articles saying the exact opposite thing. I don't know who to believe. Anyone know?

But regardless, it's interesting that ATT LTE is better than ATT 3G for you, thanks for the post.

 

[nizmoz]

I currently have an iPhone 4S on ATT (5 in my family plan to be exact), but I'm considering switching to Verizon for the next iPhone with LTE. I know you've all heard this story a million times before, but my take on it may be a little different, so bear with me.

The most common cities I am in are Houston, Austin, San Francisco, and NYC. In that order. Using rootmetrics.com, I looked at these 4 cities. What I take away from their "Rootscore Reports" (that are found in the right column after clicking a city), is that Verizon is typically slower but more reliable. This mimics my real world impressions.

For actual numbers, in those 4 cities, Verizon is roughly 10 Mbps down while ATT is roughly 15 Mbps down. However, Verizon has a data failure rate half as often as ATT.

My thinking, is that LTE changes the game. With 3G, a difference of 3 Mbps and 6 Mbps was noticable. But how noticable is a difference between 10 and 15 Mbps? You don't download large files onto a phone, in fact the largest bandwidth usage I can think of would be streaming a video. For this case, 10 Mbps is plenty. So I'd prefer less failures, instead of having an extra 5 Mbps.

My point is that since LTE speeds themselves are so high, we don't necessary need even higher speeds anymore, but instead prefer more reliable speeds. I'm open to critiques.

(Yes, I know about FaceTime over 3G and Hotspot controversies.)

Just a FYI. I did this 5 months ago or so, and went to Verizon. I hated it! For the same matching plan it was $50 more expensive, I had worse coverage in Texas, the LTE speeds were not all that, 6mb-10mb down usually, sometimes I saw 15mb. AT&T LTE see's easily 40mb+. I also saw way worse coverage in Texas vs AT&T. Verizon does not go very far out past any highway so I had a dead phone that I could not use in the hill country while AT&T phones work just fine. That was a big let down. AT&T 4G is almost as fast as Verizon LTE while AT&T LTE blows their doors off.

So before to switch and lose your plans like I did, you need to consider everything I have said.

Also had issues where data was not working on my tower near my house suddenly and called Verizon several times and they said they see no issus with that tower. I said it just started and I can't get my email for work. They basically said well something changed in your AREA and too bad. I was like well by then. They let me out with no ETF and I went back to AT&T. No issues with AT&T and RARELY get drop calls. Better clarity calls with AT&T too while everyone on Verizon sounded mufled.
__________________

 

[terraphantm]

I think this has already happened, to some extent, with the 4S. Can people really tell the difference even between HSPA+ and LTE?

In 20 years it'll matter again, when we all want to download 4K movies on our 32 TB iPhones with picoprojectors, but for now, I agree.

It is very rare that one can pull true HSPA+ speeds with the 4S. I think I got 8mbps once in the 10 months I've owned this phone. Most of the time it's closer to 1.5mbps. And in more populated cities, it's more like 0.

LTE also has the advantage of lower latency and reduced overhead. So browsing should feel faster, and you should be able to have more users on the same tower without running into trouble.

For me the decision is easy. Verizon has LTE where I live, AT&T doesn't. Verizon's expansion seems to be much more rapid too, so that seems like the safer bet to me. I'm more than willing to pay the ETF in this case.

 

[nizmoz]

From my experience in Texas NO. Verizon definitely doesn't have a superior LTE network period.

Then you should read the article, it explains the ATT HSPA+ coverage is trumped by Verizon's vastly superior LTE network.

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That's very interesting thanks. I've been reading up on ATT vs Verizon LTE for indoor use.

Verizon uses 700 Mhz which technically lower frequencies should transmit futher into buildings. But ATT uses 1700 and 700 Mhz, and some articles say that the 1700 Mhz doens't transmit as far, but it's denser so that overcomes the distance. So I have seen articles saying the exact opposite thing. I don't know who to believe. Anyone know?

But regardless, it's interesting that ATT LTE is better than ATT 3G for you, thanks for the post.

 

[aneftp]

For me the decision is easy. Verizon has LTE where I live, AT&T doesn't. Verizon's expansion seems to be much more rapid too, so that seems like the safer bet to me. I'm more than willing to pay the ETF in this case.

Well that answers the question for you than.

I think people will defend and convince others that one carrier is superior to others. Coverage is all local. Remember that.

I have luxury to have both att and Verizon.

So I can compare coverage of both simultaneously. Since I travel between DC and most of Florida I can tell u honestly Verizon's LTE service is very spotty in the Miami area and drops to CDMA a lot. But Verizon lte service in the DC or even Baltimore suburbs are rock solid.

I am in Orlando most of the time and Att lte service is actually better than Verizon.

So I can give a fair and balance Opinion of both carrier.

You have 14 days with Verizon to try out the service and 30 days with att. That's the period to test out coverage.

As mark Twain once said or something similar. "Those who read the news are misinformed". Always take with a grain of salt what you read. Try out both services for yourself or even borrow a friends phone even just for a little bit to check out coverage for yourself.

 

[JoshGlzBrk]

AT&T now throttles you after 3 GB for those who still have unlimited, like myself.

But for LTE phones that doesn't happen until 5GB. 5GB of data for only $30 (or less with a employer discount) is a hell of a deal compared to any of the data share plans and even the individual tiered plans.

 

[BiggAW]

Yes. The iPhone 4 had antenna issues. And you don't have to "believe it", science proved it.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4971/apple-iphone-4s-review-att-verizon/2

They technically are there. However, they have no practical implication because the phone's case would insulate the person from the antenna anyways, so outside of the lab the problem just doesn't occur.

 

[cynics]

Bad news, Verizon does too so its no better. If I hit 3GB, once i hit a "congested" towns tower per Verizon, I'm throttled. Then Unlimited Data is useless. Its old and there's nothing we can do. That's why I decided when the iPhone 5 gets here, I'm hitting the Shared plan that's tiered. At least then my speeds wont be throttled. You guys know, its painful when they cut you to dial up speeds. And I swear, they do it to iPhone users first. They do not like iPhone at Verizon.
Go in and talk to them about it. They spend hrs trying to convince you to by the latest greatest Android phone. When I went in and tried to purchase the 4s, I was shunned like the red headed stepchild. They were very short, "We don't have any iPhone's in stock", "Why don't you look at the new HTC"

They also said, they've checked around no one else has any 4s either.
I went 5 miles down the road to Best Buy, and they had tons of 4s in all colors and sizes.
So, I think they throttle iPhone users early at Verizon. I remember the tech guy said when I was complaining about it that iPhone s use alot more data and that's why......why an attitude of them against us?
I love my Verizon coverage.....and speeds when Im not throttled, but the prices arent as good, and being shunned in stores sucks.....but oh well. I want quality.

----------



I dont think ping has anything to do with the user experience/speed. I say this because, there's been times when Ive had my best download speeds with a 350ms ping. Go figure. Ill never understand exactly what affects Internet experience, I just know the numbers don't tell the whole story.

Also, these speed results on speedtest.net vary largley on which station you choose to test on too BTW.

Ping makes a huge difference when it comes to mobile devices because its what effects the connect speeds. When you try to load a web page but it hangs even though you have a fast connection its cause the ping sucks....

 

[orangebluedevil]

They technically are there. However, they have no practical implication because the phone's case would insulate the person from the antenna anyways, so outside of the lab the problem just doesn't occur.

Ugh. So in your technical, practical world every single iPhone 4 is in a case because everyone wants a case and/or knows they need one? Interesting.

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But for LTE phones that doesn't happen until 5GB. 5GB of data for only $30 (or less with a employer discount) is a hell of a deal compared to any of the data share plans and even the individual tiered plans.

Bingo, that's my qualm. Stick with Unlimited (throttled at 5GB) on ATT for $22, or go get reliable service at Verizon for $50 for 5GB.

Talking to self: "Sounds like a personal problem"
Self talking back: "Yep"

I guess after this thread I'm convinced Verizon is superior (In most cases), the question comes down to is it worth the price. That, everyone will have to decide for themselves...