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Your number of returns

  • 0 iPad

    Votes: 311 70.2%
  • 1 iPad

    Votes: 54 12.2%
  • 2 iPads

    Votes: 27 6.1%
  • 3 iPads

    Votes: 12 2.7%
  • 4 iPads

    Votes: 11 2.5%
  • 5 or more iPads

    Votes: 28 6.3%

  • Total voters
    443
So you are putting more statistical weight into your sampling of 5 iPads, purchased in a small geographic area, evaluated by five people, over a sampling of 700, purchased from all over the world, and evaluated by over 300 people.

That is the same emotional/irrational thinking that my coworker exhibits. How does Apple get people to think like that and religiously defend their products? Image if Steve Jobs was a minister; his church would have been the largest on the planet.

No more irrational than putting stock in the testimonies of a forum full of faceless, anonymous people, at least a few of whom may not even be who they say they are, where from they claim to be from, or may not even own iPads.

I'm not saying that's the case, but my point is that you can easily dismiss either side of this argument simply because of all the uncertainties inherent in this particular medium. I think the fact that this has very much remained an "Internet-centric" debate and hasn't spilled fully over into the mainstream media says more about the situation than anything else. The argument that everyone else just doesn't care about the flaws or aren't as discerning is just silly.

I think the fair thing to say is that there are problems, but the significance of the problem or the percentage of iPads with problems is something NONE OF US can determine by any data gleamed in this forum.
 
I believe voting on this poll is one of the best ways to get an accurate picture of the quality of the new iPad......


That's the most irrational thing I've ever heard (okay, maybe not the most, but it's near the top). This poll is inherently skewed by the mere fact that the profile of the average Macrumors member doesn't fit the profile of the average iPad buyer. You have a majority sampling of the geeks and more discerning types.........

That's precisely why this is a more meaningful poll. The people doing the evaluating are far more knowledgeable than the average iPad member.

Imagine the average car owner buying a used car and trying to evaluate the engine. Most of them would say the engine sounds good to them, so the engine is okay. Now if you had a car mechanic listen to the engine, he would notice the valve tapping, the shaking of the engine, oil leaks around the gaskets, the color of the oil on the dip stick, the residue on the exhaust pipe, etc. and say the engine is unacceptable.
 
I totally agree with you TheWheelMan. As for this part:

No more irrational than putting stock in the testimonies of a forum full of faceless, anonymous people, at least a few of whom may not even be who they say they are, where from they claim to be from, or may not even own iPads.

That's the situation for any anonymous survey in my opinion. Don't you think?
 
That's precisely why this is a more meaningful poll. The people doing the evaluating are far more knowledgeable than the average iPad member.

Imagine the average car owner buying a used car and trying to evaluate the engine. Most of them would say the engine sounds good to them, so the engine is okay. Now if you had a car mechanic listen to the engine, he would notice the valve tapping, the shaking of the engine, oil leaks around the gaskets, the color of the oil on the dip stick, the residue on the exhaust pipe, etc. and say the engine is unacceptable.

no, it is akin to a car buyer complaining about how the paint has a rock chip, or the interior having a slight scratch and demanding a replacement car. ie things that dont affect the devices intended function
 
I don't consider myself a fanboy but can you honestly believe this poll is really an accurate reflection of the real world experience of the millions of iPad purchasers? Such a conclusion would be niave.


It's a given that macrumors is a complaint-centric site and that polls here tend to skew negative.

However, as someone who has been paying very close attention to these threads, I find it difficult to reconcile how...

1. My iPad 1 and 2 required zero exchanges. Every iPad 2 I've seen has had an evenly lit and evenly colored screen.

2. I have been through 6 iPad 3s, and the current one is moderately better, color/lighting/viewing angle wise, but no where near as nice as my iPad 2.

3. I have observed countless images posted here of the same issues, most labeled as bad iPads, but some labled as good.

4. I have seen very few images here of evenly lit/colored screens. I can think of maybe 3. If there were more photographic evidence of good screens, instead of unreliable verbal assertions of "perfect" screens, accompanied by incessant name calling, I would be much more inclined to assume I've simply been very unlucky this time.

5. I have personally inspected nearly 50 iPad 3s in the wild, from a wide variety of sources, and all but 2 or 3 exhibited the same issues I've seen described and experienced myself.

6. On 2 separate occasions at an Apple store, having shown 2 different iPads to 4 different employees, 2 employees could see the issues I was complaining about; 2 could not. Clearly these screen issues are obvious to some, and non existant to others, which would account for a large number of people claiming the rest of us are crazy.

To my logic, this a job for Occam's Razor...i.e.. the simplest explanation is usually the correct one...that there are problems with the majority of iPad screens. Some people can not see them. That does not mean they are not there.

To my thinking, it seems far more a stretch of logic to imagine a scenario in which 45 out of 50 iPads have issues, but that those issues are only seen in iPads that landed in NYC, because that is the singular trait that iPads I've inspected share. And that's if you only consider my personal experience and don't include similar reports from several others.

I could be wrong, but in the 5 years I've been on MR, this is the first time I've seen people reporting returns/exchanges beyond 2 or 3. For that to coincide with my personal experience of being unable to purchase one that doesn't exhibit these issues seems like a long shot, and yet it is so. Add to that coincidence that this is the largest release of any iPad yet, and that it's a new screen technology which may or may not have been perfected before release, and you have the makings of a widespread issue, whether or not everyone is sensitive to it.

Also, the assertion that people who say their screens are good are just ignorant and know no better is patronising.

Certainly no more patronising than the assertion that people with complaints are OCD.

There may be some issues with some screens but this ridiculous conclusion that between 50% - 100% of all iPads are faulty is just fanciful.

Given the variety of factories producing the iPad, and the massive quantity produced, there is no one person on the planet who knows what they all look like, screen wise. So to claim that any percentage of them is either defective or not is a total guess by the likes of us.

One thing that can be inferred from this poll is that people who have never returned or exchanged an iPad 3 very likely have experience with only 1 sample. People returning 2 or more have at least double the data points. My own experience is that 90% of 50 iPads I've seen exhibit screen issues. The next guy with 1 "perfect" iPad is hardly a comparison by which to judge the entire lot of iPads in the wild.
 
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VFC,

Your point would be valid "if" you could be sure that everyone here claiming to be "mechanics" were in fact mechanics, or even owned the car in question. The problem here is that because of the anonymity of the arena, anything you might determine from numbers here are invalid by default, even if the reality is that they are 100 percent valid. A rational evaluation requires a controlled, or at least a quantitatively understood, environment. We have way too many unknowns here to put much stock in the numbers.

Right now we have the equivalent of seeing one drop of water on the hood of one's car on a cloudy day and assuming a thunderstorm is approaching. It very well could be true, but you don't hear the thunder or see the lightning (at least not yet), and you don't have a radar to refer to handy. You just don't have enough information to make a solid judgments, even if the scant information that you have does suggest the possibility of an approaching storm.
 
Mcdj & Vic are correct sir

All the problems stated here are on other apple forums al so.
The worst part is that that when people with a bad 3 look at there old 2 ,that is what a lot of times kicks the yellow -pink issue.AND PLEASE FANBOYS ,I SAID A BAD 3,not a good one.i gave up after 3 .
Beyond that the other 2problems were bezel bleed,just poor workmanship and
Not getting warm but shutting off on thermal.
So no it is not just this forum,it is widespread.
Hopefully quality tightens up down the road.
So amen,and pass me my problem free I pad2 with no pink or yellow,bezel bleed or heat problem.
 
no, it is akin to a car buyer complaining about how the paint has a rock chip, or the interior having a slight scratch and demanding a replacement car. ie things that dont affect the devices intended function
The iPad is all about the screen. If the screen has issues, the user experience is degraded. Same analogy with the engine of a car.

Electronics is go/no-go; there is no in between. When a company has a first rate quality control process, the no-go units never make it into the customer's hands. If Apple had a retina screen test machine that could sense each pixel for intensity and color accuracy (rather than some over-worked Foxconn employees looking at the screen for a couple seconds) none of these bad screens would have left the factory.
 
So you are putting more statistical weight into your sampling of 5 iPads, purchased in a small geographic area, evaluated by five people, over a sampling of 700, purchased from all over the world, and evaluated by over 300 people.

That is the same emotional/irrational thinking that my coworker exhibits. How does Apple get people to think like that and religiously defend their products? Image if Steve Jobs was a minister; his church would have been the largest on the planet.

If you're going to quote me then try to fully quote me, you neglected the last sentence:-

"...Now it would be ridiculous for me to assert, based on my sample, that 100% of iPad's are good."

This actually shows I put no statistical weight on my sample, it's as valid and invalid as this skewed poll.
 
4. I have seen very few images here of evenly lit/colored screens. I can think of maybe 3. If there were more photographic evidence of good screens, instead of unreliable verbal assertions of "perfect" screens, accompanied by incessant name calling, I would be much more inclined to assume I've simply been very unlucky this time.

5. I have personally inspected nearly 50 iPad 3s in the wild, from a wide variety of sources, and all but 2 or 3 exhibited the same issues I've seen described and experienced myself.

6. On 2 separate occasions at an Apple store, having shown 2 different iPads to 4 different employees, 2 employees could see the issues I was complaining about; 2 could not. Clearly these screen issues are obvious to some, and non existant to others, which would account for a large number of people claiming the rest of us are crazy.

To my logic, this a job for Occam's Razor...i.e.. the simplest explanation is usually the correct one...that there are problems with the majority of iPad screens. Some people can not see them. That does not mean they are not there.

I could be wrong, but in the 5 years I've been on MR, this is the first time I've seen people reporting returns/exchanges beyond 2 or 3. For that to coincide with my personal experience of being unable to purchase one that doesn't exhibit these issues seems like a long shot, and yet it is so. Add to that coincidence that this is the largest release of any iPad yet, and that it's a new screen technology which may or may not have been perfected before release, and you have the makings of a widespread issue, whether or not everyone is sensitive to it.

I wanted to respond to a couple of things I quoted above:

By your very own words, this site skews negative. Therefore, you aren't going to see more images of "perfect" screens because those people aren't posting here. Which is exactly why the sampling of users here is too unbalanced to make fair judgments.

The fact that you've seen 50 iPads "in the wild" gives you a much more solid basis to form opinions than on this message board. However it must be pointed out that for all we know, you might be working for Samsung hired to discredit the iPad. I don't seriously believe that's true, but it is one of the unknown variables that I referred to in my previous posts. If you want to make a truly quantitative analysis, you cannot ignore those sorts of unknown variables.

Occam's Razor doesn't apply because we aren't really looking for an explanation, we're trying to determine the extent of a problem. Even I, who was doubtful at first, believe there are clearly problems with the displays now. We just don't know how widespread it truly is.

Your last points are pretty good ones, though we still have to factor in the uncertainties. The fact that people are returning more iPads may be a sign of a true issue, a sign of a lot of people making claims that aren't true, a bit of iPad hysteria (which I still believe exists for some people), or a varied combination of all.

Just to qualify my opinions a bit. I'm a disabled freelance graphic designer. I'm using my iPad to control my PC to do my work a lot lately due to health reasons preventing me from sitting at my PC all day. I'm fairly discerning about the appearance of screens and such since it's important to me as an artist and as my profession as a designer. I bought my iPad 3 and received it yesterday, because I figured the higher res screen would aid me in my work now that I'm relying on the iPad so much more (I upgraded from an iPad 1). My iPad 3 is perfectly fine. Would I call it "perfect"? No, but I don't really believe in perfection, except that it's a personal material judgment, not so much a concrete fact. But I've seen no flaws whatsoever that would interfere with my needs or wants from the device. I bought my iPad from Amazon, through a third party reseller. Just as it seems odd to me that one person would find seven defective iPads in one store if there were no flaws, it seems equally odd that I would order an iPad online in the manner I did and happen to get one in perfect working order, especially if the defect rate was 40-50% as some have speculated here.

So the bottom line is that while we can each draw any conclusions we want, none of us truly knows how widespread the problem is, or even if it is, as I suspect, that some of these "problems" are considered within acceptable parameters of variance by Apple. In other words, what if the screens are "flawed" by nature, meaning that having a screen without color tinting (I don't consider true light bleed or dead pixels acceptable flaws) is the exception on these screens at this time, and not the norm? After all, if you go to any place selling tvs and you can see that pretty much every tv has a different temperature or tint from the next.
 
Penny wise and dollar foolish

. "If Apple had a retina screen test machine that could sense each pixel for intensity and color accuracy (rather than some over-worked Foxconn employees looking at the screen for a couple seconds) none of these bad screens would have left the factory.""

That is part of the problem here- apple is sitting on a ton of money,and
Letting there good rep suffer for a few bucks.
Now before the fanboys blast me,I own many apple products and have only to return an iPod.
The new boss at apple is pushing them out so fast at the cost of quality control.
Sorta sounds like gm in the 60's and 70's
 
The iPad is all about the screen. If the screen has issues, the user experience is degraded. Same analogy with the engine of a car.

Electronics is go/no-go; there is no in between. When a company has a first rate quality control process, the no-go units never make it into the customer's hands. If Apple had a retina screen test machine that could sense each pixel for intensity and color accuracy (rather than some over-worked Foxconn employees looking at the screen for a couple seconds) none of these bad screens would have left the factory.

No, the correct analogy in the car would be the interior and what you interface with. Such as the seats, the radio, the dash being slightly off spec.

Your ipad is still working as function with no ill effect. You can still run every app out there and use the camera, and everything else that the ipad entails. However, in a select case in which you look at a 100% white screen, in the dark, you see a slight hue. This is not that noticeable when using the device as designed (ie not looking at 100% white screens all day in the dark)

At some point, you have to realize if you want a 100% perfect device with no issues at all, you can bet that the QC costs would be such that there would be no way they could sell these devices at 500 apiece. They made a compromise and I think it is worth it. Chances are that this ipad costs quite a bit more than the 2 so they HAD to make some sort of compromise to sell it at the same price points.

To those that say I paid for a 100% perfect device, consider this. That is impossible. Nothing in manufacturing is perfect. If you still like to complain, I wager you take your 500 and make yourself your own ipad. You will quickly find that 500 is a steal for these devices

I am amazed at how many know that these issues are relatively minor yet devote so much time and energy driving to the apple store, trying to explain they need a replacement because of a dust speck you can barely see, or a slight hue, get a replacement at the expense of looking silly to the geniuses, not once, not twice, but over 10 times?! are you kidding me?

I am not saying that there are no truly bad screens but I think that the threshold of what is acceptable and what is not is clearly abused by many here.
 
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All the problems stated here are on other apple forums al so...

So provide us with proof that the people posting on those other forums aren't the same ones posting here, and then total the number those "widespread" complaints and compare them with the number of iPads sold. And then tell me what you have proven except what we already know, that there are iPads with defects out there. Trying to assert how widespread the problem is not only futile, but not really the point. A flaw is a flaw. You don't need to prove that "x" number of people must have the same problem to justify your own.
 
. "If Apple had a retina screen test machine that could sense each pixel for intensity and color accuracy (rather than some over-worked Foxconn employees looking at the screen for a couple seconds) none of these bad screens would have left the factory.""

That is part of the problem here- apple is sitting on a ton of money,and
Letting there good rep suffer for a few bucks.
Now before the fanboys blast me,I own many apple products and have only to return an iPod.
The new boss at apple is pushing them out so fast at the cost of quality control.
Sorta sounds like gm in the 60's and 70's

Boo, hiss, bad evil Tim Cook.

It's not like the old days when Steve Jobs personally hand made every individual Apple product to order prior to cycling to hand deliver it to the customer who he was on first name terms with:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
If Apple had a retina screen test machine that could sense each pixel for intensity and color accuracy (rather than some over-worked Foxconn employees looking at the screen for a couple seconds) none of these bad screens would have left the factory.

Not for nothing, but the iPad 3 has 3 million pixels. If they tested each pixel for 3 million iPads, the launch date for the iPad 3 would probably be sometime in the year 2050, and the cost of the iPad would be in the neighborhood of $5000.

I'm actually quite sure the coloration/blotchiness issues have little to do with defective individual pixels. I think what we're seeing is the downside to having 3 million pixels crammed onto a 9 inch screen, then squeezed into an aluminum wafer housing, before the LED lighting technology and LCD treatments were properly optimized for a display with this much pixel density.

If you have a choir of 100 people singing in a large auditorium, they might sound nice, but they will only be so loud. If you increase the choir's size to 10,000 people, they will certainly a lot louder, but a choir that size introduces a whole new set of challenges, and the quality of the sound will be much less controllable or predictable, unless you spend A LOT of time in rehearsal. And if you plan on doing 3 times the number of concerts with the new 10,000 person choir in the same concert season, there are bound to be problems.

The iPad 3 has a lot more pixels singing. And there are a lot more concerts this year than last. It's no wonder a lot of people are hearing songs off key. Of course, as with any other concert, some people are plenty happy to just hear it loud. Whether or not it's in key doesn't matter.
 
Blimey, this thread is fast becoming the official home of some terrible metaphors.

It might be corny, but I don't think it's so far off. And actually, it leans towards giving Apple a bit of slack, which I've not been prone to lately.
 
I'm actually quite sure the coloration/blotchiness issues have little to do with defective individual pixels. I think what we're seeing is the downside to having 3 million pixels crammed onto a 9 inch screen, then squeezed into an aluminum wafer housing, before the LED lighting technology and LCD treatments were properly optimized for a display with this much pixel density.

You just nailed it on the head, there is so many pixel on the iPad that they had to elevate sub pixels so the colors wouldnt clash with each other and that is the effect we get with the rainbow of colors!
 
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It might be corny, but I don't think it's so far off. And actually, it leans towards giving Apple a bit of slack, which I've not been prone to lately.

You're not alone with the metaphors on this thread, I hope you took my comment in the good natured spirit it was meant.
 
You're not alone with the metaphors on this thread, I hope you took my comment in the good natured spirit it was meant.

I'm from NYC. We're pretty tough to offend. :D

Next time I'm London side, we should compare iPad screens at the Wollsley.
 
Boo, hiss, bad evil Tim Cook.

It's not like the old days when Steve Jobs personally hand made every individual Apple product to order prior to cycling to hand deliver it to the customer who he was on first name terms with:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Seriously, where were these people when the 8500/180, G4 cube or G5 coolant leak were launched into the marketplace? Apple has had some major smashes like the ipad 3, but also some duds as well - even when Jobs was there.
 
Not for nothing, but the iPad 3 has 3 million pixels. If they tested each pixel for 3 million iPads, the launch date for the iPad 3 would probably be sometime in the year 2050, and the cost of the iPad would be in the neighborhood of $5000.

I'm actually quite sure the coloration/blotchiness issues have little to do with defective individual pixels. I think what we're seeing is the downside to having 3 million pixels crammed onto a 9 inch screen, then squeezed into an aluminum wafer housing, before the LED lighting technology and LCD treatments were properly optimized for a display with this much pixel density.......

You know they can cram 18 million pixels in the area of your fingernail in a digital camera. Apple could easily make a test jig with multiple light sensors for each pixel (testing viewing angles as well) for the measly (relative to a camera sensor) 3 million pixels spread out over an iPad's 9 inch screen. If I were making up to 100 million screens of the same size, I would invest in a few test jigs..... The cost would be net zero. Costs spread out over 100 million units and a significant reduction in returns.
 
Not for nothing, but the iPad 3 has 3 million pixels. If they tested each pixel for 3 million iPads, the launch date for the iPad 3 would probably be sometime in the year 2050, and the cost of the iPad would be in the neighborhood of $5000.

I'm actually quite sure the coloration/blotchiness issues have little to do with defective individual pixels. I think what we're seeing is the downside to having 3 million pixels crammed onto a 9 inch screen, then squeezed into an aluminum wafer housing, before the LED lighting technology and LCD treatments were properly optimized for a display with this much pixel density.

If you have a choir of 100 people singing in a large auditorium, they might sound nice, but they will only be so loud. If you increase the choir's size to 10,000 people, they will certainly a lot louder, but a choir that size introduces a whole new set of challenges, and the quality of the sound will be much less controllable or predictable, unless you spend A LOT of time in rehearsal. And if you plan on doing 3 times the number of concerts with the new 10,000 person choir in the same concert season, there are bound to be problems.

The iPad 3 has a lot more pixels singing. And there are a lot more concerts this year than last. It's no wonder a lot of people are hearing songs off key. Of course, as with any other concert, some people are plenty happy to just hear it loud. Whether or not it's in key doesn't matter.

I would have paid a bit more rather than waste gas and time for this stupid lottery return , if apple is going to do a job...do it right
 
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