Yeah it runs the operating system but if you try to do anything it jumps to the discrete graphics and that seems like it's barely enough.
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How many more years does non-retina MBP have?
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Yeah it runs the operating system but if you try to do anything it jumps to the discrete graphics and that seems like it's barely enough.
It just when certain code is executed, regardless of if it's needed or not. I use SwitchResX in order to ensure it's always on integrated when on battery power and it runs fine for ordinary tasks (browsing, office stuff, RDP into Windows)
Anyway, gotta go now. Just got my ML Codes!
I would guess like many people in this thread have said before that next year Apple may most likely drop the classic mbp model, and leave the retina mbp 13 and 15.
Apple may keep current prices on 15 rmbp the same as there's no reason to drop it. The 13 rmbp may start at 1599 while higher specs can go up to 1799 or 1999.
I think Apple is trying to make the pro laptoop line "pro" again while others who want a laptop will buy the macbook airs. Just my 2 cents.
Apple may keep current prices on 15 rmbp the same as there's no reason to drop it. The 13 rmbp may start at 1599 while higher specs can go up to 1799 or 1999.
I think Apple is trying to make the pro laptoop line "pro" again while others who want a laptop will buy the macbook airs. Just my 2 cents.
For the 13" rMBP it would more likely be 2560x1600, and yes, I think it could run off integrated graphics.
The scrolling issues found with the rMBP and Lion were due to the CPU handling all the load. They made it smoother with Mountain Lion by using Core Animation for GPU-accelerated scrolling. Even if the Intel HD 5000 obviously won't be nearly as powerful as a GT650M, it will still be better than no GPU acceleration at all, and 2560x1600 should be easier to push than 2880x1800 too.
If anyone wants to try (I don't have my rMBP yet), force the usage of integrated graphics on a rMBP with Mountain Lion and I bet it's pretty smooth. Supposing that the resolution would be lower on the 13" and that Haswell should bring a better iGPU, it could only be better.
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Yeah but I'm not talking about scrolling issues. I'm talking about doing anything useful with the display. Their selling point of the 15" retina is being able to edit movies without needing to compress the 1080p resolution image, but FCP needs a dedicated graphics card to run. They also show off Aperture, which can run off integrated graphics but not like its meant to be run.
Then they'd have to at least somehow embed a h.264 decoder somewhere because airplay mirroring is a huge feature they've been gloating about. And as far as I know you need a graphics chip for that.
I don't disagree with you about the 13" retina but I feel like there will be a base model with the simple 1440x900 display or even the current 13" display. But the retina will have to a graphics chip and there will be space for one if they go flash memory and have no optical, which is a sure thing.
What would be the point of a cheaper base model without a Retina display? The 13" MBA already fills that spot.
I don't think a discrete GPU will be necessary, especially with integrated GPUs improving at a much faster pace than discrete GPUs. I think Apple would rather offer the 13" rMBP for cheaper than the 15" rMBP (notice the huge price gap between the MBAs and 15" rMBP right now if the cMBPs had to go away), and make it as thin as the 15" while providing good battery life.
If someone is going to need a discrete GPU for serious Final Cut Pro/Aperture work, he will simply get the 15". I don't think Apple has to justify the use of a Retina display with pro applications just because the computer has "Pro" in its name. It certainly didn't prevent them from labeling the last 13" MBP with the "Pro" name even though it wasn't at the level of the 15" for seriously intensive stuff.
If anything, the name only represents the design line. Last time, they justified the "Pro" moniker on the 13" MBP with the added FireWire port and SD card slot, even though the older white MacBook already had FireWire and most professional photographers use CF cards. In other words, it's just a marketing term, and anyone who is going to use his computer for demanding stuff just has to look at the specs list to figure out what he needs. He won't just blindly buy any computer with the "Pro" moniker in it assuming they are all equal. Multimedia professionals know the difference between integrated graphics and discrete graphics, and have come to expect from Apple to get performance proportional to the device size.
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Definitely understand the reasons for Apple moving over to the retina only, but I still wonder how they will justify an almost completely non-upgradable and non-repariable range.
I suspect that when the retina becomes the only 15" offering, as well as price cuts to the entry level, they will do something to address the upgradability issue. That may be offering branded SSD upgrades, finding space for upgradable RAM (even if it's a new format), or another port or expansion slot.
Any, or a combination of those options will assuage the fear of buying something so expensive that will look like it's not running on all cylinders within a few years or so. There's nothing so expensive that most people buy that has such a short useful life. With cars and homes, after a few years you may want a nicer or larger one, you may have suffered from depreciation, but there is unlikely to be any reason stopping you from using it for the purpose it was originally intended.
For me, the cMBP is the sensible option. I've looked hard at both the rMBP and the high-res cMBP, can't see a massive difference like I could with the iPhone 3GS and 4S, and the latter provides more screen real-estate with less GPU overhead, upgradability for RAM, HDx2 and battery, with more legacy ports. TB is daisy-chainable too, so I don't see massive value in the extra port if you choose your peripherals well.
Please, nobody pretend that the rMBP is a MBA - it's not, just a slightly lighter workstation that sacrifices as much as it delivers. If you have a rMBP and love it, then great. I know that others have different needs and preferences. But, I'd love it if the cMBP would continue as an alternative for us that like even the idea of being able to keep it going for a year or two extra.
David
I suspect that when the retina becomes the only 15" offering, as well as price cuts to the entry level, they will do something to address the upgradability issue. That may be offering branded SSD upgrades, finding space for upgradable RAM (even if it's a new format), or another port or expansion slot.
Any, or a combination of those options will assuage the fear of buying something so expensive that will look like it's not running on all cylinders within a few years or so. There's nothing so expensive that most people buy that has such a short useful life. With cars and homes, after a few years you may want a nicer or larger one, you may have suffered from depreciation, but there is unlikely to be any reason stopping you from using it for the purpose it was originally intended.
For me, the cMBP is the sensible option. I've looked hard at both the rMBP and the high-res cMBP, can't see a massive difference like I could with the iPhone 3GS and 4S, and the latter provides more screen real-estate with less GPU overhead, upgradability for RAM, HDx2 and battery, with more legacy ports. TB is daisy-chainable too, so I don't see massive value in the extra port if you choose your peripherals well.
Please, nobody pretend that the rMBP is a MBA - it's not, just a slightly lighter workstation that sacrifices as much as it delivers. If you have a rMBP and love it, then great. I know that others have different needs and preferences. But, I'd love it if the cMBP would continue as an alternative for us that like even the idea of being able to keep it going for a year or two extra.
David
The biggest clue is the name. Apple has been very specific to not give it a new product name. It's still MacBook Pro to Apple. The "with retina display" is absolutely a throw-away moniker.
Some of these features may go away in a less painful manner than you expect. OEM ram is rarely the thing that fails. People worried about future ram failure are often the ones buying low budget ram or memory with known issues. Being able to upgrade it comes down to cost. Apple charges a lot at times. I can understand that aggravation. With the SSD using proprietary formats means that even if another vendor decides to match them, they cost too much. The battery is a major sticking point as its service cost and required labor increases with every design iteration. The cMBP battery is also not regarded as user serviceable, but it can be removed via 4 anti tamper screws. I think it's a Y1 tip. This would be useful if you're running into the dreaded swollen battery. It seems to be a major source of trackpad grief.
What annoys me somewhat is that the cMBP is left completely frozen in time with a successor that has everything sealed in. It didn't receive a dual TB configuration. The machine still runs hot. They are simply milking the old design with updated hardware, and the price remains relatively high when taking that into consideration.
Not sure about cheaper, but... I actually like the many ports of the classic MBP. The Retina is pretty light on ports from my point of view. And while it has a very high nominal resolution, in practice it's an extra-sharp 1440x900 display, and as you say, the 13" MBA already fills that spot.
I am pretty frustrated, because I am about ready to go looking for a new Mac, and nothing Apple sells now is a viable replacement for my existing machines. The highest rez classic is lower than I want, and the retina is effectively worse, while also lacking ports I actually use.
