How many would have preferred the old form factor with upgraded parts?

Would you have preferred (of only 2 options):

  • The 5,1, but with Ivy Bridge (2 processors), USB3, SATA3, PCIe 2.0, and TB1

    Votes: 218 61.9%
  • The New Mac Pro as it is

    Votes: 134 38.1%

  • Total voters
    352

slughead

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Apr 28, 2004
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With all the back and forth about how this design is literally perfect vs people really annoyed about the lack of upgrade/BTO options, I'm surprised nobody's done this poll.

edit: To be clear, the new Mac Pro will undoubtably have *some* BTO options, it will clearly not have an optical drive, any platter drives, and will likely only have 1 or 2 SSDs which will be proprietary PCIe "cards". Also, the available options for video will be extremely limited as well compared to current models, likely each model will have a dual firePro cards, ranging from the low-end to w9000.

Edit2: Many say Apple could not have had TB and PCIe. That's incorrect. There are plenty of inexpensive PC motherboards that allow you to use any off the shelf GPU and run it through thunderbolt. Also, assume I meant PCI 3.0 and TB 1 and 2, as there str no limitations with that either :).
 
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Bear

macrumors G3
Jul 23, 2002
8,089
4
Sol III - Terra
With all the back and forth about how this design is literally perfect vs people really annoyed about the lack of upgrade/BTO options, I'm surprised nobody's done this poll.
How do you know there are no BTO options on the New Mac Pro? There will be some BTO options, we just need to wait and see what they are.

I'm surprise you specifically said TB 1 in the first option. With that restriction, the new Mac Pro is better with the TB 2 ports.
 

slughead

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Apr 28, 2004
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How do you know there are no BTO options on the New Mac Pro? There will be some BTO options, we just need to wait and see what they are.
From what was already announced, It looks like it'll be FirePro video cards only, an addition to the lack of platter drives and 2nd Processor option.

I'm surprise you specifically said TB 1 in the first option. With that restriction, the new Mac Pro is better with the TB 2 ports.
Get a PCIe card for that :D

Perhaps I should not have made that restriction.
 

slughead

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Apr 28, 2004
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Didn't you mean PCIe 3.0 in the poll?
Poll options only! All choices are final! No backsies!

And yes, I meant 3.0

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It's just another scaremonger spreading FUD.
If you've found some information that suggests it'll be dual processor, have something other than dual firepro, have an optical drive, and allow for more than just 1 (or 2?) ssd drives then I'll correct myself :)

This isn't FUD; there simply can't be as many BTO options as before based on what they've already told us.
 

brand

macrumors 601
Oct 3, 2006
4,364
395
127.0.0.1
If you've found some information that suggests it'll be dual processor, have something other than firepro, have an optical drive, and allow for more than just 1 (or 2?) ssd drives then I'll correct myself :)

This isn't FUD; there simply can't be as many BTO options as before based on what they've already told us.
Until the new Mac Pro is released and we know the actual specs and BTO options you are just guessing. Apple never said that there would not be a Nvidia BTO option. All Apple did was show a single prerelease model and you are assuming that it will be the exact thing they release with no BTO options.

Additionally you can BTO a Retina MBP with an Apple Super Drive. Might not be internal but it is still BTO.
 

slughead

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Apr 28, 2004
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Additionally you can BTO a Retina MBP with an Apple Super Drive. Might not be internal but it is still BTO.
BTO = build to order.. if they're bundling a bunch of stuff, what exactly are they building? ;)

Maybe I'm not grasping English well today... Am I doing this right?:

I BTO'd my coffee grinder on Amazon.com the other day when I got some columbian roast with the same order!
 

Sweetspot

macrumors newbie
Jun 5, 2013
2
0
The ican isaw is an isore.

Moreover, it's gonna make our DTs like spaghetti junction.

Gimmee the old form factor any day. Count me in for option 1.
 

VirtualRain

macrumors 603
Aug 1, 2008
6,304
114
Vancouver, BC
I'm not sure you can have off-the-shelf PCIe graphics cards AND thunderbolt, but I'm no expert.

At any rate, for me, the difference between an updated current MP and the 2013 MP as announced is a $150 USB3 two bay HD enclosure so I'll take the smaller form factor with PCIe SSD thank you. ;)
 

ScottishCaptain

macrumors 6502a
Oct 4, 2008
872
467
What would have been wrong with calling it the "Mac Pro Mini"?

Keep the old Mac Pro around in an updated fashion for everyone who wants PCI-e slots and integration. Keep the new Mac Pro around for everyone else. I mean, seriously, given how efficient Apple's inventory system is (in which they basically carry no inventory at all), how hard could that be?

PS: You can't have the Mac Pro and Thunderbolt without doing exactly what they've done. I called that one months and months ago. It is impossible to run Thunderbolt on a Mac Pro without proprietary video cards. So really, your only choice boils down to an updated Mac Pro in the existing form factor OR the new Mac Pro with Thunderbolt (any version). You can't have both.

-SC
 

VirtualRain

macrumors 603
Aug 1, 2008
6,304
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Vancouver, BC
What would have been wrong with calling it the "Mac Pro Mini"?

Keep the old Mac Pro around in an updated fashion for everyone who wants PCI-e slots and integration. Keep the new Mac Pro around for everyone else. I mean, seriously, given how efficient Apple's inventory system is (in which they basically carry no inventory at all), how hard could that be?

-SC
I think it's too early to assume the Mac Pro form factor we have today is dead. It's a safe assumption, but not a sure bet. It's certainly possible to iterate it to support the latest CPUs. But even if they offered this, I'd still choose the new solution for the PCIe SSD, compact chassis, and TB2.
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G3
Mar 10, 2009
8,332
1,374
If you've found some information that suggests it'll be dual processor, have something other than dual firepro, have an optical drive, and allow for more than just 1 (or 2?) ssd drives then I'll correct myself :)
How about Apple's web pages that say "up to 12 cores" ( so variability on CPU packages) and "up to 7 TFLOPs " on GPU performance ( so variablity on GPU packages )?



This isn't FUD; there simply can't be as many BTO options as before based on what they've already told us.
Yes is it pure FUD. There isn't a Mac sold that doesn't have BTO options. None. Zip. Nada. One ( or three if "good" "better" "best" ) configuration and no options... Good grief even the Macbook toward the end wasn't that restricted.

There is no way Apple is going to hit reasonable entry price points with W9000 equivalent FirePros fixed in stone in configuration. Pure smoke. Lack of Nvidia options is also completely not indicative of absence of BTO. The Mac Pro has shipped before without BTO options for Nvidia.


Intel's 12 core E5 v2 is going to be priced in the $1770+ range. Again no way going to hit entry level prices with that either. Frankly so high probably won't be in any of standard configs. ( As Apple typically tops out at around $1400-1500 ).
 

slughead

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Apr 28, 2004
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Yes is it pure FUD. There isn't a Mac sold that doesn't have BTO options. None. Zip. Nada. One ( or three if "good" "better" "best" ) configuration and no options... Good grief even the Macbook toward the end wasn't that restricted.
Wait hold on, you took my statement to an extreme I never said (on purpose? who knows). I said there was a lack of BTO options, not that I didn't think there would be any.

My opinion is that they'll have dual firepros in every one, but it'll be different modes, likely ranging from w6000 (iirc, that's the $330 one) to the w9000. Also, I think there will be different processors available with different cores and clock speeds. I think we've established, however, that it'll be single processor (which means ivy bridge will be offering a 12 core or 6 core + 6 virtual core).

My gripe is with the lack of other video card options that having 1 or 2 pcie slots gives you (the whole "you can have any card you want, as long as it's dual firepro" is not okay with me), plus the lack of room for HDs and optical. Others would be upset at the lack of a second processor. You can see the results of the poll, everybody has their peeve with the limitations of the new model.
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G3
Mar 10, 2009
8,332
1,374
What would have been wrong with calling it the "Mac Pro Mini"?

Keep the old Mac Pro around in an updated fashion for everyone who wants PCI-e slots and integration.
Because the current Mac Pro units sales were already not very viable. Making them smaller isn't going to improve the viability. A substantial number of folks will buy the new Mac Pro. Whether that is enough for it to survive on its own is an open question.

However, it is relatively clear that as it was targeted before there was not sustainable growth to support the machine. If there was high growth in the Mac Pro unit sales the product would not have gone dark for as long as it did.

Shipping it "as is" with some speed bumps isn't viable because frankly is going to pull the Xeon tech the current one relies on from the retail market. 3500/3600 and 5500/5600 disappearing.

A wholesale board change to E5's ? If there were "extra, with nothing to do" R&D resources lying around Apple available for that they could have done that last year. They didn't so it is extremely likely there isn't an "extra" team available.


I mean, seriously, given how efficient Apple's inventory system is (in which they basically carry no inventory at all), how hard could that be?
Apple's inventory system is efficient in part because they get rid of stuff over time. They also tend to move to common components. Like buying TB controllers. Current Mac Pro doesn't have one or almost any other part that any other current or upcoming 2013 Mac has.

PS: You can't have the Mac Pro and Thunderbolt without doing exactly what they've done. I called that one months and months ago. It is impossible to run Thunderbolt on a Mac Pro without proprietary video cards.
No. Perhaps with 3 TB controllers that is true. But with just one it would work. There are over a dozen mainstream WinPC mainboards (including a few that Intel sales) that clearly demonstation you can have standard PCI-e graphics cards and TB in the same system. The discrete card can pump video out through TB, but that is not necessary. That might be an Apple design constraint they impose on themselves but it is not necessary and therefore possible.

The combination of selling more TB displays and normalizing "MacBookPro and Mac Pro" on standard configuration dual GPUs I think is too much for Apple to pass up. The first is just plain tail-wagging-the-dog to juice more money. The second actually makes long term sense if want to spur software development to push in that direction (more GPGPU leverage).
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G3
Mar 10, 2009
8,332
1,374
Wait hold on, you took my statement to an extreme I never said (on purpose? who knows). I said there was a lack of BTO options, not that I didn't think there would be any.
FUD isn't about about completely non truths. It is far more about pushing he connoations. Here lack means a reduction but still some.

, plus the lack of room for HDs and optical.
Here lack means zero (not any). It is exactly this implicit connotation that fuels the FUD aspect in the first statement in post #1 here.
 

slughead

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Apr 28, 2004
3,105
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Here lack means zero (not any). It is exactly this implicit connotation that fuels the FUD aspect in the first statement in post #1 here.
Okay sir, do you really think I said that this new computer contained no internal hard drive. Really? Do you really think that? Seriously?

I said it had a "lack" of drives, as in I wish that it had more. I don't think anyone would take it to mean that it had no hard drives. We know it has at lease 1 hard drive, they showed it in the picture, I'll still say it has a "lack" of hard drives as it has deficiency in the hard drive count that I want.

I just looked it up, "Lack" Means deficiency OR absence. How about giving me the benefit of the doubt.

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HA HA HA... Me too, I got a Krupts grinder and it's parked next to my Mac Prp. ;)
You should put your MP under your desk, glue about 50 cables to the back of your coffee grinder, and just tell everyone you got a developer model of the new one.
 
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VirtualRain

macrumors 603
Aug 1, 2008
6,304
114
Vancouver, BC
What if you could get all that with the old form-factor?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but TB is not possible with off-the-shelf GPUs which means TB could not be offered with the current solution. So No... I don't think I could get all that in the old form-factor. At any rate, the current chassis already seems dated and clunky to me now. I can't wait to sell it and get the new one.
 

slughead

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Apr 28, 2004
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but TB is not possible with off-the-shelf GPUs which means TB could not be offered with the current solution. So No... I don't think I could get all that in the old form-factor. At any rate, the current chassis already seems dated and clunky to me now. I can't wait to sell it and get the new one.
EDIT: This is not correct, you can use off-the shelf GPU.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1t7Rc9qFgI
 
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