How much do I charge for tech support?

[Boggle]

Okay everybody, this is what happened.

He was floored. He went to my dad, who said I was worth at least $25/hr, which doesn't help at all.

He wants to give me $7/hr.

And $15/hr for overtime.

I am incensed. I don't know what to do. I'm going to e-mail John, and ask him for help/advice, since this guy thinks I'm worth nickels and dimes.

If I wanted to I could remove the data and take home the Seagate I installed, since I legally own it until he pays me (it's on my credit card). But that seems rather malicious. And it would hurt my dad's business.

Does he have the right to refuse my invoice like this? Don't get me wrong, I should have told him the fees upfront, but on the other hand he didn't ask me upfront. If you call 911 you don't ask for the bill before they get started. Or refuse payment when they finish.

Unless you need the money right away, don't worry about this. If everything you've said is accurate, the company hasn't a leg to stand on. A simple copy of the invoice & a breach of contract form sent registered mail to the company's lawyers' office & to whomever commissioned your work (I'm calling him Joe) will pretty much be the end of it. Especially, if the lawyer checks into things and finds that Joe didn't set a price w/ you beforehand. And that you are charging the same rate the normal guy would get. Once the lawyer sees that this guy won't pay YOU what he normally would pay somebody else for EMERGENCY work they will yell at Joe for agreeing to a contract w/o setting terms in writing, b/c that was stupid. And you could charge much more.

Hopefully, you will remember NEVER to agree to any work w/o some kind of written agreement as to your wage rates. Good luck!

Nobody wants to pay 2 days worth of legal fees for a $2,00 bill (I'm estimating).

 

[stonyc]

I think some people are forgetting that this is the business partner of dferrara's dad... litigation is probably not an option, an ugly one at best.

I would say that before even considering litigation, talk to your dad. There should be no reason to have to have to take this to litigation, or even to an attorney... explain your position to your dad (John would have been paid $50/hour, you're offering significantly less... and it was all done in a timely and professional manner... you're offering a discount), and he'll likely tell his partner to stop being an asshat. They're saving money (compared to John's normal rate), after all.

 

[nbs2]

I think some people are forgetting that this is the business partner of dferrara's dad... litigation is probably not an option, an ugly one at best.

I would say that before even considering litigation, talk to your dad. There should be no reason to have to have to take this to litigation, or even to an attorney... explain your position to your dad (John would have been paid $50/hour, you're offering significantly less... and it was all done in a timely and professional manner... you're offering a discount), and he'll likely tell his partner to stop being an asshat. They're saving money (compared to John's normal rate), after all.

That is a consideration, and I noted that (along with the expense of the lawyer). But, you can't let friend/family interfere with business life. Two seperate worlds which get messy. 20/20 says that it is never good to get into a business relationship with family/friends. But, emergencies always ruin that good eyesight. Also, litigation is not always the end of a business relationship. Many times, it serves as a more formal (and expensive) version of arbitration, where once the issue is settled, the relationship continues. As for personal relationships...

That being said, I agree that he needs to talk to his dad before going legal. But, I think he needs to be clear with his dad that if they (well, his partner) are going to treat him like a child, perhaps a third marty needs to come in. The other advantage to proposing legal remedies is that you should be able to persuade arbitration or mediation. That should get you closer to a reasonable rate while not ruining your personal relationship.

 

[adroit]

How long would it take John to do the same job?

If it would take him say 10 hours to do the job you did in 27 hrs then $50/hr is definately too much for you. But if you can work as fast as he does in the same or better quality then there's no reason why they should pay you less.

 

[Boggle]

I think some people are forgetting that this is the business partner of dferrara's dad... litigation is probably not an option, an ugly one at best.

I am not forgetting it. I just COMPLETELY disagree. This business partner (let's call him Stan for simplicity) attempted to ASSSUME a contract @ far below market value, and now Stan is trying to unfaily use his business relationship w/ dferrara's father (hereafter Mr. D) to avoid paying market value. My estimate based on the previous posts was $2,000. And Stan wants to pay $189+cost of the drive, which is outrageous. ANYBODY should sue Stan in this situation.

I would say that before even considering litigation, talk to your dad. There should be no reason to have to have to take this to litigation, or even to an attorney... explain your position to your dad (John would have been paid $50/hour, you're offering significantly less... and it was all done in a timely and professional manner... you're offering a discount), and he'll likely tell his partner to stop being an asshat. They're saving money (compared to John's normal rate), after all.

Again, I could not disagree more. The best way to maintain professionalism is NOT to approach his father. If dferrara does speak with Mr. D, then dferrara is deliberately creating more tension between Stan & Mr. D. A tactic which Stan has already employed and after that meeting Stan rejected Mr. D's counter of $25/hr (which was also unacceptably low IMO).

And how bad does it look that Stan called Mr. D and accused dferrara of ripping off the company? Stan assumed he could rip off dferrara for some expensive work, and is now upset b/c dferrara charged the normal rate. Stan might not have been expecting the figure he got, but he is NOT within his rights to deny it, b/c he never said anything about $/hr. He's very lucky it IS Mr. D's son, b/c if this went b4 a judge and the plaintiff had no blood relationship to the owners of the company, then the judge would award dferrara's rate+legal costs.

 

[Demon Hunter]

What would I do without you?

Well after having lunch with my dad, he's a defeatist. He thinks it's a learning opportunity. I suppose he means, never do business with Stan. But here's the rub: my dad commissioned me. It really highlights a lot of problems which existed prior to me. Stan has complete financial control...

My dad seems open, though. I think he'll agree to the open discussion, which is all I should ask. The rest is between me and Stan.

If it was me, I would briefly rehearse my arguments, politely, as to why they had called me in the first place, detail the regular commercial charges that were operating and that you had fulfilled what had been required in a commercially professional way.

I think I'll outline this in an e-mail...

Keep an open mind and reduce your rates from say $50 to $40 an hour if they do raise any valid points.

Yeah, absolutely. I'm going to request an open meeting like you said.

How much more work do you think they might offer you in the future/how much influence in the community do they have?

Not enough, let's put it that way. $7/hr Monday through Friday, no exceptions? Uh, I made more at Dairy Queen.

I asked my dad to bring the Seagate. If it gets serious, I'll consider the data as well (perhaps giving my dad limited access).

What if they had hired someone else for this emergency tech support, instead of you? They would have paid John's normal rate, possibly even more... correct?

Correct. I'll drive this home in my e-mail, and in the discussion.

Always stay calm and friendly and make sure you make sense before saying anything aloud.

Stay composed, gotcha.

A simple copy of the invoice & a breach of contract form sent registered mail to the company's lawyers' office & to whomever commissioned your work (I'm calling him Joe) will pretty much be the end of it.

Hopefully, you will remember NEVER to agree to any work w/o some kind of written agreement as to your wage rates.

Is that a nice way of saying, "I'm going to sue?" I'm sure they have a lawyer of some sort. If all it requires is a review by him, it's brash but doable.

Lesson learned.

I think some people are forgetting that this is the business partner of dferrara's dad... litigation is probably not an option, an ugly one at best.

This is somewhat true, unfortunately, because of the company's interpersonal dynamic. I don't want this to burden my dad or my family at all.

How long would it take John to do the same job?

Longer. He was out of town, and can't do overtime.

The best way to maintain professionalism is NOT to approach his father.

As you can imagine, it's difficult to avoid, but I'll involve him only if I must.

 

[Les Kern]

Don't whore yourself. Find out what the market is, then charge accordingly. Actually, you SHOULD have done this BEFORE the job. In my area it's 120/hr, so that's what I charge. If the "other guy" in your area is making 50, charge that much to not ruffle feathers... THIS time. If you are exacting in your work, you don't charge for "learning time" (MY personal pet-peave when I have to hire a consultant), you can charge what the market will bear... but dude, 50 bucks is WAY too low I don't care WHERE you live. But this assumes you're a bonded entity. I suspect you are not. Therefore, take your lumps, get what you can and NEVER do it again until an agreement beforehand is made.

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

He thinks it's a learning opportunity.

Sod that. Its not just a learning experience for you (getting the price out there in the first place) but its a learning experience for this guy that's trying to fob you off. HE needs to learn the value of tech support.

Also, you've mentioned that you don't want to risk losing jobs in the future...

Well if you charge $50 an hour now and you did what, 20 hours. Well that's $1000. At $7 an hour that would take 142 hours to earn. Are you going to be doing 142 hours for this guy in the near future or what?!!
Invoice him $60 an hour standard out of hours rate, then give him a 15% discount for being a 'friend of the family'. Say payment is due in 30 days or whatever, just do a proper invoice. If push comes to shove and you have to get a solicitor to write a letter demanding the money after the due date has passed then so be it, it'll only cost a small fee.
Don't let yourself get conned.

 

[floriflee]

How long would it take John to do the same job?

Longer. He was out of town, and can't do overtime.

I think the question that adroit was trying to ask was "Had John been available how long would it have taken him to do the same task as you?"

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

I think the question that adroit was trying to ask was "Had John been available how long would it have taken him to do the same task as you?"

Since he's not someone who was 'doing them a favour' and is just a regular tech guy I'd hazard a guess that he would have taken way longer. Tech support like to string things along - more money.

 

[Demon Hunter]

Apparently Stan feels very bad. He said this to my dad no less than five times.

I think his secretive plan is to offer me $11/hr for work in the future (ha), and get off with the previous $7/hr scheme for now.

I'll tell you how it plays out.

 

[nbs2]

I think the question that adroit was trying to ask was "Had John been available how long would it have taken him to do the same task as you?"

But, it is relevant that John was not available. If John had been, they wouldn't be in this mess. Not that you are in this to profiteer on their bind, but when something is needed in an emergency, it costs more (as noted by others in this thread).

 

[Kingsly]

Apparently Stan feels very bad. He said this to my dad no less than five times.

Poor, poor Stan. Give him a hug for me.
He is buttering up your dad so he'll agree to something like $7-$10 /hr

I think his secretive plan is to offer me $11/hr for work in the future (ha), and get off with the previous $7/hr scheme for now.

Like I said.

Lets start a new "Stan sucks" thread.

 

[virividox]

god this stan sounds like a total prick!!!

 

[Demon Hunter]

Poor, poor Stan. Give him a hug for me.
He is buttering up your dad so he'll agree to something like $7-$10 /hr

Like I said.

Lets start a new "Stan sucks" thread.

Haha, YES! I haven't had the misfortune of talking to him yet, but I'll update everyone when I do.

 

[Kingsly]

Haha, YES! I haven't had the misfortune of talking to him yet, but I'll update everyone when I do.

*fingers crossed*

 

[ToddW]

stick it to him. don't let them pay you change. take your harddrive give them their bad disk and say see ya.

 

[Ray Brady]

Is that a nice way of saying, "I'm going to sue?" I'm sure they have a lawyer of some sort. If all it requires is a review by him, it's brash but doable.

Stan didn't just offer you a low wage; he offered you below the legally required minimum wage. This is a big deal. If the company lawyer doesn't know about the situation already, you need to tell him. Paying you your due is going to cost a lot less than fending off the Department of Labor.

 

[TheAppleFairy]

Stan didn't just offer you a low wage; he offered you below the legally required minimum wage. This is a big deal. If the company lawyer doesn't know about the situation already, you need to tell him. Paying you your due is going to cost a lot less than fending off the Department of Labor.

This thread is 9 years old...but thanks for digging it up. Now I want to know what happened.

 

[Ray Brady]

This thread is 9 years old...but thanks for digging it up. Now I want to know what happened.

Holy crow, I didn't even notice. Somehow it showed up on the first page of my New Posts feed. Whoops!

 

[Scepticalscribe]

This thread is 9 years old...but thanks for digging it up. Now I want to know what happened.

Holy crow, I didn't even notice. Somehow it showed up on the first page of my New Posts feed. Whoops!

When it came up, I spotted that it was almost a decade old, and was somewhat surprised at the fact that it was resurrected.

However, I am also struck by the fact that the OP never returned to report what happened, and I think quite a few who read their way through the thread would have been interested to find out what eventually transpired.

 

[TheAppleFairy]

OP's last post was about 3 months ago. Maybe he will get notified on this thread and chime in.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

On this precise issue, I think that the private aspect complicates and clouds matters considerably. When friends and family are involved, it is a lot harder to demand the market rate.

Of course, you can do so, but sometimes at the irrevocable cost of a cooling of the relationship, or indeed, sometimes, of the relationship.

However, this issue of being unable to demand market rates when the offer of work has come as a result of personal relationships can cut both ways. The OP may have felt unable to pursue a market rate of payment for this work, but those who commission the work are often also unable to follow up poorly executed work if the person doing it had been commissioned to do it on the basis of a personal relationship.

It is much more difficult to issue a reprimand, or seek redress if the work is not to your satisfaction, when the work has been commissioned on the basis of personal relationships.

In general, I prefer to try to keep the professional and the personal separate, although, I'll concede that it isn't always possible to do so.