How much longer can Apple spounge off the outdated PB line?

CuriousG

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jun 8, 2005
29
0
How much longer do you think Apple will spounge of the sales of the outdated PB line? I personally feel that Apple has really dropped the ball as far as the PB line is concerned. Normally I wouldnt rate a PB as anything other than a great investment but right now as it stands the PB line is light years behind the high end pro series PC laptops. And has been now for sometime. Personally I just dont get it and as far as defending apple on this one...I dont think there is much of a defense considering people are already spending $1k more for an inferior laptop. :mad:
 

alex_ant

macrumors 68020
Feb 5, 2002
2,473
0
All up in your bidness
They'll do it as long as they want, I guess. I'm sure they are making major investments in the Powerbooks, but do not want to waste money making major updates/changes to an end-of-life PowerPC platform.
 

Demon Hunter

macrumors 68020
Mar 30, 2004
2,245
38
I've argued that logic before, but what it really comes down to is this: design is one of the founding tenets of Apple. The second, in my opinion, is ease-of-use. The third is powerful technology for everyone. The last of these is key: for the majority of people, the PowerBook does exactly what it was meant to do. Kick some ass, take names, and look good doing it.

What really is lacking? We all know that the G4 is an old chip. But it's also stood the test of time, which is an enormous feat for any technology, much less the short-lived processor.

alex_ant said:
They'll do it as long as they want, I guess. I'm sure they are making major investments in the Powerbooks, but do not want to waste money making major updates/changes to an end-of-life PowerPC platform.
I think you're right. If Apple had stayed with Freescale they would have redesigned the 'Books for the G4+. The new G4s have "evolved" and require a complete overhaul. Yes, the Pentium M performs better in some areas, but I would hardly say the G4 is that far behind.

The mobility 9700 is still a very good chipset and does its job: low heat, low profile. Storage continues to increase. Resolution is excellent for most folks (if you really want 1900x1200 on a 12" screen, then a PC with Microsoft DestroyYourVision™ 2005 is probably a better choice). What else? USB ports? Please. We have sweet keyboard lights and trackpads, FireWire 800, Bluetooth 2.0... I guess I'm just not seeing your logic here.

And back to the "design" tenet... if Apple must sacrifice some fraction of speed and power for design, so be it. That's the way it is and always has been.

I challenge you to show us a PC laptop that exceeds the PowerBook feature-set, while maintaining good design principles. I doubt you can find one less than 1" thick with a 17" screen. :p Not to mention Mac OS X and all the other reasons we prefer Mac.

Also: the PowerBook is a premium computer. If you don't really care to pay extra for an aluminum finish, get an iBook! Or don't get the Saab with turbo and fog lights, etc.
 

Lacero

macrumors 604
Jan 20, 2005
6,639
2
CuriousG said:
I personally feel that Apple has really dropped the ball as far as the PB line is concerned.
They dropped the ball when they went with PPC and Motorola. :p

Apple can't do much if the primary supplier of chips can't turn a profit selling chips to a miniscule PC market. That's why we are all waiting for intel laptops. Apple isn't sitting on their butts trying to sponge off consumers. Although one could argue for massive price cuts. But why such a negative view?
 

Chrispy

macrumors 68020
Dec 27, 2004
2,126
1
Indiana
I am one that loves to complain about the powerbooks needing an update with fellow mac users but really... when you think about it... the G4 processor really has lasted a long time. The fact I can even play Unreal Tournament 2004 at all on a 12" powerbook Rev. D says a lot! Yes, Apple needs to update the powerbook line but when you really think about it, it is amazing that they are still decent machines with the age of the technology being used to power them.
 

eva01

macrumors 601
Feb 22, 2005
4,714
0
Gah! Plymouth
Bern said:
Out dated by what standard and for use with which particular software?
exactly there is very few software out there that can't run on the Powerbooks that are out there now.

FCP can run on it, MS Office, iWork, PS, etc. etc.

I have no problems at all, if you have a certain program you can't run on a powerbook then more than likely you need a powermac. That is why i have my powermac so it can run software that is too robust for the powerbook, like Motion
 

Bern

macrumors 68000
Nov 10, 2004
1,857
1
Australia
Verto said:
Performance worthy of the 2000$ price tag ?
Have you seen a pc laptop built to the same quality as the Powerbook? You can either buy a Ferrari or a Toyota, both will get you around.
 

eflaten

macrumors newbie
Sep 9, 2005
11
0
Verto said:
Performance worthy of the 2000$ price tag ?
Exactly. The progress on the powerbook has been anemic since the aluminium switch. 2 years ago. But because the OS i stick to it. OR the iBook.
 

jaw04005

macrumors 601
Aug 19, 2003
4,369
15
AR
I have a 1.33Ghz PowerBook G4 with 1.2GB of Ram and 80GB 5400RPM hard drive, and the iLife 05 suite runs like a dog. iPhoto barely can handle the 1500 images I have loaded in my library. iMovie's effect rendering takes forever. Garageband chokes when using over four instruments. iDVD's multiplexing takes sometimes hours.

Visual effects in Tiger are usually jagged (Dashboard/Expose). It also takes quite a while to process a RAW file from my Canon Digital Rebel.

So yeah, I would say to run BASIC consumer Apple software... the PowerBook 12" is lacking. I highly doubt the 1.5Ghz 12" is much better.

Not to mention the AL PowerBook line is easily dented. Bring on the Intel PowerBooks!
 

rosalindavenue

macrumors 6502a
Dec 13, 2003
837
213
Virginia, USA
joshuawaire said:
I have a 1.33Ghz PowerBook G4 with 1.2GB of Ram and 80GB 5400RPM hard drive, and the iLife 05 suite runs like a dog. iPhoto barely can handle the 1500 images I have loaded in my library. i
That seems odd to me-- my rev. D 1.33 Ghz ibook with stock (512) ram handles 1500+ images very well-- it beachballs a little when it opens, but has no problems thereafter.
 

Chrispy

macrumors 68020
Dec 27, 2004
2,126
1
Indiana
joshuawaire said:
I have a 1.33Ghz PowerBook G4 with 1.2GB of Ram and 80GB 5400RPM hard drive, and the iLife 05 suite runs like a dog. iPhoto barely can handle the 1500 images I have loaded in my library. iMovie's effect rendering takes forever. Garageband chokes when using over four instruments. iDVD's multiplexing takes sometimes hours.

Visual effects in Tiger are usually jagged (Dashboard/Expose). It also takes quite a while to process a RAW file from my Canon Digital Rebel.

So yeah, I would say to run BASIC consumer Apple software... the PowerBook 12" is lacking. I highly doubt the 1.5Ghz 12" is much better.

Not to mention the AL PowerBook line is easily dented. Bring on the Intel PowerBooks!
I agree that iMovie takes FOREVER to render video and iDVD takes even more FOREVER haha. When the Intel books come out with faster processors and a faster system bus things will surely be much better :)
 

Earendil

macrumors 68000
Oct 27, 2003
1,546
0
Washington
joshuawaire said:
I have a 1.33Ghz PowerBook G4 with 1.2GB of Ram and 80GB 5400RPM hard drive, and the iLife 05 suite runs like a dog. iPhoto barely can handle the 1500 images I have loaded in my library. iMovie's effect rendering takes forever. Garageband chokes when using over four instruments. iDVD's multiplexing takes sometimes hours.

Visual effects in Tiger are usually jagged (Dashboard/Expose). It also takes quite a while to process a RAW file from my Canon Digital Rebel.

So yeah, I would say to run BASIC consumer Apple software... the PowerBook 12" is lacking. I highly doubt the 1.5Ghz 12" is much better.

Not to mention the AL PowerBook line is easily dented. Bring on the Intel PowerBooks!
Most of what you mention won't be cured with today's Pentium M chips. If you think any of those operations are going to me split second on even a maxed G5 or Xeon machine, you are mistaken.
All except for Expose/Dashboard, which I run flawlessly without delay and jaggedness on a 1.25G4 15" PB Alum, with 64mb VRAM, 1.2 mb RAM and with a second 20" external display. So I don't know, perhaps you system has some issues outside of the proc.

Are the G4 Procs the best out there? Heel no. Are they Dogs that lag behind everything? Heel NO. G4 chips still handle graphics exceedingly well, and contrary to popular belief, handle everything just as well as they did 2 years ago :eek: :rolleyes:

And who in there right mind edits video on a Laptop and complains when it's slow? Show me a none desktop replacement on the Windows side that edits video with any amount of what could be called "speed", please, I beg you.
 

0098386

Suspended
Jan 18, 2005
21,552
2,886
I'd say that now the PowerBooks are probably feel their age. but as soon as the Intel chips are out these things will be so far ahead of windows laptops it wont be funny. The PowerBooks have lost their crown for now, but it wont be long before they are king again.
 

iQuit

macrumors 6502a
May 13, 2005
517
1
I am almost certain a 3 GHz Dell Laptop can handle some video editing....and many other laptops...battery is not a main issue for me with such a powerful laptop like that.
 

MacPassion

macrumors member
Sep 13, 2005
37
0
OZ
I have a 6 month old HP laptop that I really look forward to sell to switch to a PB....and I got already few very interesting offers that I had to decline....why? bc I'm really not willing to give Apple my savings for a machine that is 8 month old and now overpriced. I'm so tired of checking every day (or hours for an update that is not coming...and maybe will never come in the near future...so disappointing....
 

Earendil

macrumors 68000
Oct 27, 2003
1,546
0
Washington
iQuit said:
I am almost certain a 3 GHz Dell Laptop can handle some video editing....and many other laptops...battery is not a main issue for me with such a powerful laptop like that.
I'm almost certain that any desktop replacement could beat any Apple powerbook at any time in its life span. Why? Because Powerbooks aren't desktop replacements, they are only 1" thin! :p

And I'm sure there are high end Windows Notebooks that can do video editing. Much faster than a 1.6 G4? doubtful.
And in my own experience, with a few runs of my PB (with 512mb ram) vs my friends 2.8P4 notebook, I smoked him in most PS filter tests. Out of 10 he only beat me in 1, and by a small margin. In the end though, I have a small, light, sexy beast of a laptop that still holds it's own in all the PS work I do, as is practical as a LAPTOP. If you don't need a laptop, then go spend 2.5 G's on a duel 2.5 G5 ;)

~Earendil
 

Jedi128

macrumors 6502
Jul 7, 2005
274
0
New York, NY
I think that the G4's in the PB's are getting slower... Thats why Apple switched to inteleron. The switch will fix the current problem. It just happens that untill mid-06 I wouldnt drop $2000ish for a G4 processor.... I would rather wait until inteleron comes around and helps the books out.

Apple is trying to hide this fact as anyone in their shoes would. I think they offer plently of other things in a PB (thinner than competition, OS X!, SMS, looks way better than any other laptop ever made(except maybe iBooks) OS X, oh wait I said that already...), and that is why people are still buying them.
 

bryanc

macrumors 6502
Feb 12, 2003
335
0
Fredericton, NB Canada
drake said:
One word, Thinkpad + OS X. Okay, two words. :p
That's exactly what I'm going to do if the PowerBook isn't updated in October.

It's not that the G4 is that slow... it's the FSB that's the biggest bottleneck (167 MHz in the current Powerbooks, vs. 533 MHz in the Thinkpad). The fact that the GPU is an antique and the monitor is pathetic doesn't help the Powerbook either.

With the Freescale 7448 being a pin-for-pin compatible drop-in replacement for the existing G4 (available since February), but one with a faster FSB, lower power consumption and higher clockspeed, I simply can't understand why Apple hasn't done this. I mean, sure, their attention has been elsewhere with the upcoming Macintels and all, but really, this is a desperately needed band-aid to see the Powerbook line through to next year.

Drop in the 7448, upgrade to an ATi Mobility 9800 with 128 Mb, put in a 7200rpm 100 Gb drive and you've got a Powerbook that isn't a joke. More importantly, that's a Powerbook I, and many others, would buy without hesitation.

Cheers
 

Verto

macrumors 6502a
Jul 20, 2005
582
0
Denton, TX
Bern said:
Have you seen a pc laptop built to the same quality as the Powerbook? You can either buy a Ferrari or a Toyota, both will get you around.
Your comparison falls short, since PowerBooks != Ferrari speed, only Ferarri price.
 

leachy

macrumors newbie
Aug 29, 2005
17
0
UK
The issue with the PB line is not their relative specs when compared to a PC, you're not comparing like to like. As a recent switcher to Mac I never made this comparison, I wanted an Apple laptop so why bother looking at something that didn't match my criteria. The fact is that the PowerBooks are more than adequate for almost all OSX software.

Where the PB line does suffer is the price comparison with the iBook and it was this that made me choose an iBook - loving it by the way. In the end I would have been paying £500 more for very little performance or feature benefit had I got a PB. It wasn't justifiable for an aluminium shell and backlit keyboard and instead I bought the iBook and took the saving and got myself a Mini as well.