How much to charge for DVD slideshow

[jelloshotsrule]

i once made one of these (ended up putting in on vhs because that's all they had to play it on at the wedding) for some friends. i, too, did not like the lack of control when using an automated app, so i used after effects (overkill, yes). anyways, it probably ran around 15 minutes, with over 100 pictures. they didn't have much money, but gave me $100 as a thank you.... so... if you're doing it professionally, and not as a favor, you can/should charge more, for sure. scanning is time consuming and so is timing it all properly. of course, if they don't care for all the details, and you automate it, then makes sense to charge less.

 

[notjustjay]

It's actually a fairly good question, one I don't know the answer to. I don't think you can just rip songs from a CD and put them on a DVD and charge for it.
...
I've thought one way to get around this would be to buy each track you put on the DVD from the iTMS; I'm not sure there's a way they can tell you you can't resell it.

Dave

No, you can't do either. When you buy a CD or a track off iTMS you are buying a license to play the tracks in your home, on your iPod, etc., and the right to burn limited copies for the same use.

If you're using the music as a background to a video or slide show, you need to pay for two additional things: a synchronization license (which gives you the rights to use the music along with your content, e.g. to synchronize them) and a master use license (which gives you the right to use a particular performance recording).

That said, people do this ALL the time, and Apple can only be encouraging it by making it so easy to buy a song off iTunes and letting you use it in iMovie and iDVD. For personal use this is fine, but as soon as you start selling them (or even giving them away) you're entering dangerous waters. Like speeding, people do it all the time, and relatively few people get caught. You wouldn't think the Big Lawyers would go after a guy making a few copies of a wedding slideshow for his friends. But you just never know, and especially if you have aspirations to do this "professionally" and make money off it, you need to be very careful.

I'm not a lawyer, but I've done this sort of thing (for private use only of course) and have purchased the master/synch licenses once. It cost me $75 for the right to use the song on up to 300 copies of our video over a period of 3 years. I don't recall who exactly took my money, we went through an entertainment lawyer that a friend worked for.

For most of my projects, I use free, royalty-free music (www.freeplaymusic.com) or pay for inexpensive royalty-free music cuts when I need them.

 

[Dave00]

No, you can't do either. When you buy a CD or a track off iTMS you are buying a license to play the tracks in your home, on your iPod, etc., and the right to burn limited copies for the same use.

I checked it out, unfortunately it looks like you're right.

http://www.apple.com/support/itunes/legal/terms.html

It's restricted to "non-commercial use". It would seem to be prohibitive to try to obtain a license for each song you tried to use on individual albums, which would make it difficult to have a significant business proposition involving making DVD's. I suppose you could ask the users to assure you they already have a particular song on CD, but again, not practical. Of course, the question then becomes, what happens if you use iTMS-purchased songs for commercial use. Clearly, Apple can terminate your iTunes account, but I'm not sure there's legal room to go after you for copyright infringement, as long as you can certify you didn't keep a copy after you distributed the song.

Dave

 

[notjustjay]

It would seem to be prohibitive to try to obtain a license for each song you tried to use on individual albums, which would make it difficult to have a significant business proposition involving making DVD's.

Indeed.

Shortly after I wrote the previous post, I found a website called licensemusicnow.com which apparently is a broker for this sort of thing, if people want to give it a try. They don't give pricing unless you start a request in motion, but it's implied in their FAQ that smaller projects COULD be free, but not likely, and a range of $50-500 per song was offered (and is consistent with the one time I paid $75).

The easiest approach is to use royalty-free music designed specifically for production use. They obviously don't have quite the emotional punch as a popular music track (that is, after all, exactly their incentive to charge you so much to use one), but it's much easier to operate above-board. Whenever I create slide shows or videos, I turn to these. FreePlayMusic.com is my favourite source, and I've downloaded virtually all their tracks onto my production drive.

I wish it was easier to use "real" music in a home-brew production, but I can see why the publishers and copyright owners would want to have control (and grab a quick buck, too). Synchronizing a song with a video can create a powerful association in your mind, something we see all the time with TV, radio and movie trailer ads. If I was a musician I'd probably want to know exactly what kind of products or videos my songs were associated with, too.

 

[rjphoto]

i feel a bit bad charging more at this point because i have an ok camera but nothing grand that i'm working with. i'm charging $300 for a basic two camera taping of the wedding ceremony, recoding of audio from sound board (for latter enhancement for video), and an hour of the wedding reception. and that includes 3 copies on DVD for both the bride and grooms parents and the bride and groom themselves. plus i'm giving a friend $50 to just help tape during the reception cause he needs the money. i guess i'm just to much of a pushover. after this wedding though i plan on raising my price. what do you guys think i should charge for a basic wedding video?

Depends on your location. In some palces the starting price is $1200-$1500 for what you are offering. Check around. (have your wife or girlfriend call other vendors. Go to the Wedding Gala and pick up flyers.)

Around here I get $200 per hour for a basic one camera setup with 3 or 4 copies on DVD.

As for the Picture to Video price, stick to the $1 per image for scans - more for clean up. I do heavy PhotoShop work on most images anyway and have a pretty good work flow. If the client brings digital images I switch over to a per hour charge of $50.

I'm not sure about the music issue, but so far I have had the client bring their own music or use Free Play.

Oh, one more thing, iMovie Ken Burns Vs. iPhoto Ken Burns: I may be wrong but aren't you limited to one song in iPhoto. I like the ease of use but sometimes the client wants 3 or 4 (even 6 once) songs.

For some really slick stuff try using FCP or FCE and make 2 or 3 images dance around at one time (with Drop shadows...).

I have more secrets, but that's enough for now.

 

[PegasusMedia]

music rights

I'm a video geek, not a lawyer; so I don't know how this would stand up in court...but what I do is this:

I give the client the option of

a) buying the rights to the songs as part of my production service & appearing on my invoice, or

b) sign a document that I keep on file, stating that he/she, as the producer of said video, has secured the proper rights to the music & images provided.

So far it's been 100% option b. I'm not stupid, I know they don't actually do it. But I feel like I'm covered.

 

[cwright]

Oh, one more thing, iMovie Ken Burns Vs. iPhoto Ken Burns: I may be wrong but aren't you limited to one song in iPhoto. I like the ease of use but sometimes the client wants 3 or 4 (even 6 once) songs.

This is easy enough to fix... just drag all your audio files into an editing app in the order you want, and export it as one long AIFF file.

But anyway, I hate using iMovie and iPhoto for these projects. Half the time the pan/zoom moves to focus on the wrong part of the image. I just like having more control over it (although this takes much more time).

I use the keyframing feature in Final Cut Pro to do it all manually, and it always turns out great. I usually charge $150 for 60 photos, plus about $1 for each additional photo. This is a bit expensive, but it includes the extra time to do the photo movements manually, and a couple hours to design good looking labels for the DVD (get an R200 disc printer–makes them look very professional if you have a good design) and the DVD case, which is printed on a full-color laser printer. Not to mention encoding the video and making a custom DVD menu in DVD Studio Pro. So far everyone has been very impressed and doesnt consider $150 over-priced.

 

[rjphoto]

This is easy enough to fix... just drag all your audio files into an editing app in the order you want, and export it as one long AIFF file.

But anyway, I hate using iMovie and iPhoto for these projects. Half the time the pan/zoom moves to focus on the wrong part of the image. I just like having more control over it (although this takes much more time).

I've done that a couple of times. iPhoto still puts limits on the time and number of photos.

iMovie does allow you to manually manipulate the movement, but it's time consuming.

 

[eRondeau]

One More Plug...

I've done that a couple of times. iPhoto still puts limits on the time and number of photos. iMovie does allow you to manually manipulate the movement, but it's time consuming.

Seriously, check out Roxio's Motion Pictures. It's all you need!

PS -- No I don't work for them, or for anybody else in the computer industry!

 

[killuminati]

I do the exact same thing and I charge $250. It's a lot less than other people charge.

 

[Calvinatir]

It depends on your area what you can charge. In Los Angeles (West LA) people would probably pay upwards of $500 for that service, but people in 'podunk' don't quite have that much to spend on a service like that. I know if I marketed myself to my clients I would charge at least $500 for that service and they would pay it without opposition. In Los Angeles I charge based on ZIP Code, 90265 is a price hike, as well as 90210; lesser zip codes I charge less. It's that nature of the game, you charge what the market can pay.

 

[notjustjay]

I use Still Life for slide shows with nice pan/zoom effects. Nice little piece of shareware.

http://www.grantedsw.com/still-life/

 

[octoberdeath]

i guess i should start looking around for others like myself in order to be price competitive. thanks guys.

 

[briansolomon]

I've done this before. I charged 25 cents per picture + cost of materials couple years ago for a friend that was graduating and wanted to do this for her friends. 30 cents wouldnt be pushing it either

 

[rt_brained]

There are thousands of CDs with pay-for-use music, just as there are thousands of stock photos and thousands of motion clips available for this type of work.

It may not always sound as cool as selections of the latest top 40 hits running through your presentation, but it's better to keep your nose clean; especially when you're dealing with large groups of strangers, like a wedding.

For every well-known music artist, there are dozens more with intimate knowledge of that artist's promotion and licensing rights...and dozens of friends and family members of those dozens who've seen and heard enough to know if a run-of-the-mill event photographer or videographer is stealing music for the purpose of resale.

 

[nospleen]

What is this automated KB in iphoto? Help a Ken Burns junkie out...

 

[TranceClubMusic]

Everyone got it wrong with Music and Apple iMovie

I just talked to our in house corporate council. There IS a way around using "popular" music on Apple Slide shows or iMovie clips.
Here are the few items mentioned that will keep anyone out of jail:

DO NOT CHARGE FOR MUSIC. In other words, if a person shows up with photos from a wedding and says: Hey, I would like Madonna "Like a Virgin" played while I walk down the isle. By the way, here is MY CD that I purchased from the store." This now creates a situation where LEGALLY you can make a DVD Movie/Slide Shows with that music because it is NOT your music. It is the person's personal property.

Now, listen close - You charge the customer for YOUR TIME to create the slide show. You DO NOT charge for the music - In that case you are NOT reselling music. You are ONLY using music (purchased by some one else) to be listened to at thier home for thier own use.

The only other stipulation is that you CAN NOT use ALL of the music track. ust as long as it ends sooner than its original length your ok. Why? Have no idea but its the law.

This same thing applies to movies! I had a customer who wanted a DVD Movie of her daughter's birth. In the begining she wanted the clip from Disney's Dumbo as the Stork dropped the baby down onto land. This was also NOT illegal. The customer brought her own copy of Disney's Dumbo and I only used a portion or clip of that movie - for HOME USE ONLY!
The difference is - I didnt copy the entire DVD of Dumbo and sell Dumbo Movies for $10.00 on eBay.

It was decribed to me like: A person listening to a Music CD and looking through a photo book at home. All you did was put that on digital media for thier own personal enjoyment! There is NOTHING illegal with charging some one labor and materials to create that product.

So when doesnt it that above statement work? When you create DVD Movies for OTHER THAN HOME USE. "Home use" does NOT mean that you CAN NOT charge someone for creating that DVD.

You can charge what ever you want to as many people as you want - as long as you DONT CHARGE FOR MUSIC - ONLY CHARGE FOR YOUR "LABOR" TO CREATE THE DVD. As long as the DVD is NOT being shown in a "commercial setting" you are NOT doing anything illegal.

Your in trouble when:
You create a DVD for promotion materials that go out to 10,000 people in the business world. You create a DVD for a film or studio that will be played on TV or Movie theatres.

Most of us that do iMovie on the side have NOTHING to worry about. Think about it: Everything is copyrighted! Including the DVD Templates from Apple!!!! Will Apple come to sue us cause we made $5,000 using thier own DVD templates? Better yet - Ken burns is gonna get us ALL!!!!! hehe

Point is, if you were making a commercial for MTV - then yeah all that above is thrown out the window - but then again you wouldnt be using a "template" from anyone and would have purchasing power to play any music you desired (as long as the artist agreed).

You have NOTHING to worry about - use the music. make sure it is purchased by the customer! Do not charge for music - only charge for labor. Do NOT use ALL of the music track.

Good Luck and have fun!!!

Peace,
John

 

[CmdrLaForge]

Why use the Ken Burns Effect in iMovie when you can just have it automated in iPhoto and export it as an MPEG? (unless you require absolute precision on each movement) Just a tip for you in the future, I almost did what you did a year ago for a project and then someone told me how to have the automated KB effect in iPhoto.

Or select many photos at once in iMovie and apply the Ken Burns effect.

 

[rjphoto]

I think the big issue of letting iPhoto or iMovie do the KB effect automatically is that it can cut people out of a zoom or pan.

I was impressed with it in iphoto as long as the people in the photos are centered or the shot is just a scenic.

iMovie does allow for some precise KB movements, you just have to play with it on each photo.

Click the start button, place the photo where you want it, set the zoom level, click the end button and place the photo where you want to end it and reset the zoom accordingly. Let it render. Ta Da.

 

[LethalWolfe]

I just talked to our in house corporate council. There IS a way around using "popular" music on Apple Slide shows or iMovie clips.
Here are the few items mentioned that will keep anyone out of jail:

OMG this post is so totally,completely, and utterly wrong it's staggering. W/all due respect to your in house corporate council I don't think he/she knows jack about entertainment law.

I'm not a lawyer, but I've been around the business long enough to know the advice you are giving is completely WRONG and dangerous because you are representing it as legal fact.

I was going to go point by point, but it's pointless because your entire post is wrong. Every example you gave is wrong. Every exception you gave was wrong. Everything you said was legal is illegal.

Saying "as long as you don't charge for the music" is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. That's like saying as long as you use someone else's gun to rob a bank you can't get charged w/bank robbery. The act of using the music w/o clearance from the copyright holder is illegal. Period. End of story. The only question mark is whether or not you'll be caught. Many wedding videographers will use music w/o clearance because they think the odds of them getting caught is slim (which is probably true), but that doesn't make what they are doing legal.


Lethal

EDIT: To the OP, charge them $500 a photo 'cause doing slide shows suck @ss.

 

[notjustjay]

OMG this post is so totally,completely, and utterly wrong it's staggering. W/all due respect to your in house corporate council I don't think he/she knows jack about entertainment law.

Agreed. Folks, the BEST thing to do is not to listen to ANY advice you get from strangers on the internet. It's worth what you paid for it -- nothing. Do your own research. Check with your lawyers. Videomaker magazine runs a feature on music copyrights every other month, it seems.

But I can tell you this: You do not OWN anything when you buy a CD, except for a piece of plastic substrate worth about 15 cents. When you buy a CD you are buying a LICENSE to use the contents of the CD in specific ways. By the letter of the law, this license does NOT cover synchronization rights, master use rights, public performance or exhibition rights, ALL of which are technically required if you intend to put music to a slideshow for any kind of public performance. NONE of these intended uses fall under "fair use" and IT DOES NOT MATTER whether you use the entire song or a 3-SECOND CLIP of the song. If it is recognizable, it is copyrighted.

I am not a lawyer, so I suggest you do your own research to make sure that I'm correct. I only report what I'm 99% certain is true, and this is from years of doing this exact thing as a hobby and from years of hanging out on Usenet with video professionals in newsgroups like rec.video and rec.video.production.

Rather than look for legal loopholes, really the best thing to do is look for one of these stock music discs or try asking the publisher for clearances. You can go ahead and do it anyway, and take a chance, but you never know...

 

[lensflair]

Charging for photo slide show videos

I'm a professional photographer. I've done this sort of thing for family and friends for free. But I always charge for clients. You should charge based on your time and the quality of work. I know it can take hours to organize, scan, edit, and put together a slide show video. Sometimes even days for bigger projects. Especially if you are adding transition and Ken Burns effects on every photo. Also, I agree that no video should be longer than 10-12 minutes with 3-5 songs. But if your client wants longer then give them what they want and just charge more for it. I try to talk people out of it though. Average transition time per photo should be 5 seconds.

Don't ever charge less than $50 for a short video. It's not worth your time. If someone doesn't want to pay you that then let them create their own video.

I charge $2 per photo if they want transitions and Ken Burns type effects, $1 for no effects. For scanning I would charge an additional 50 cents per photo, $1 to also retouch/edit images.

So for a video with 100 photos that also need to be scanned/retouched and with full effects I would charge $300.

If no scanning/retouching then I would only charge $200. And if they wanted a basic video with no effects, just pictures and music, it would be reduced down to $100.

If I get a big job doing photography for an event and I'm getting paid a lot of money I might just throw in the slide show video at no extra cost (really I'm just bundling it into the package price.). I charge between $100-$250 per hour for my photography depending on what it's for.

To see samples of my work go here: http://www.vimeo.com/lensflair/videos

Hope this helps.

 

[paul's video's]

wow the price's

i just had charged $40 for 6 dvd's with 137 picture's 10 + songs graphics the whole 9 yard's and i think was a ok price for family but for ant 1 else $29.95 per dvd i think any more to me would be over priced

 

[KimLav]

Sometimes I find the auto-KB effect pans a picture the wrong way. Like only half of a person's face will show up on the screen. For my own personal movies this is usally okay, but if I was paying someone I would expect better.

eRondeau - I agree with you about being 'spoiled' by the video technology we have access to with Apple. I'm getting married later this year. When we were picking a photographer, most of them offered a DVD option for an (expensive) additonal fee. We decided not to do this though, because they all looked like crap compared to what we already do ourselves on our mac. I knew I could do better for free!

[doublepost=1467512579][/doublepost]I do tons of projects using iMovie. I have found that it is easiest to load all the pictures in order and them cancel the KB effect on the entire group. THEN, once I have the music set, I got through and add the KB effect to a select number of pictures for a nice effect that goes with the music. I also do the same thing with adding cross dissolve transitions to the entire project at one time. Just shade in all slides and select modify to cross dissolve. I usually go back and change just a few slides to an "upgraded" transition, but not many.

I buy lots of flash drives on Amazon and give them to people with the project burned to it. Then the can drag it off the flash and burn as many as they want on their own.

 

[CmdrLaForge]

Wow - thats an old thread that came up today. I am reminded of some good old times...