How much will graphics change with SB vs Nvidia?

[Hellhammer]

not everybody does cpu intensive things. would you really want to spend 300-400 more dollars to get a processor that you'll never take advantage of? just so you can say you have a sandy bridge processor?

Who said there is going to be a price increase? Refurbs might end up being that much cheaper but I would say they are a moot point because not all countries even have them.

We don't know what the next refresh will include but most likely it will be more than just SB. If nothing else, then at least Thunderbolt. The lack of knowledge is what usually makes people wait. You don't want to buy something today and then notice a few weeks after that the MBA got so much nice new things.

 

[Built]

Thanks for asking this question...I have a mid-2010 MBP 13 and really was toying with the idea of getting the MBA 11 for the portability. I mainly use the MBP for email, web, watching movies, some light game play.

I would like to begin using the MBP for video editing, etc. but thought that the MBA would be better for travelling.

The only thing that is holding me back is the consideration that it is "overkill" to have both, but I really would love the lightness of the MBA for travelling (filling the niche between my iPad 2 and the MBP).

This thread brings up interesting questions, and really, for my purposes, perhaps a refurb MBA 11 would be best now. JR Music has a sale today on MBA 11 (basic) with no tax...Tempted, but not looking to be overly extravagant either by having both MBP and MBA.

 

[ipodlover77]

Who said there is going to be a price increase? Refurbs might end up being that much cheaper but I would say they are a moot point because not all countries even have them.

that was the concern i was addressing. many people seem to still dismiss that fact even if refurbs are available. they think that the sandy bridge is worth the hundreds of dollars difference. Throw in thunderbolt, which a good number of people won't use, and does that make the price difference (again, between a refurb and the new model) worth it?

for the casual light user, would you still recommend spending that extra cash to buy the new models?

 

[iRun26.2]

that was the concern i was addressing. many people seem to still dismiss that fact even if refurbs are available. they think that the sandy bridge is worth the hundreds of dollars difference. Throw in thunderbolt, which a good number of people won't use, and does that make the price difference (again, between a refurb and the new model) worth it?

for the casual light user, would you still recommend spending that extra cash to buy the new models?

I don't think anyone can make recommendations about an unknown product.

 

[Oppressed]

that was the concern i was addressing. many people seem to still dismiss that fact even if refurbs are available. they think that the sandy bridge is worth the hundreds of dollars difference. Throw in thunderbolt, which a good number of people won't use, and does that make the price difference (again, between a refurb and the new model) worth it?

Might be a little off topic, but any chance that a thunderbolt port could REPLACE an existing USB port on the refreshed MBA? Therefore say one thunderbolt port and one USB port? That would be an auto deal breaker for myself and I would think others.

 

[Hellhammer]

I don't think anyone can make recommendations about an unknown product.

Exactly. It's useless to make recommendations when we don't know what the next gen will include. For a light user, you could just grab a used MacBook from Craigslist if you're on budget.

Might be a little off topic, but any chance that a thunderbolt port could REPLACE an existing USB port on the refreshed MBA? Therefore say one thunderbolt port and one USB port? That would be an auto deal breaker for myself and I would think others.

Thunderbolt will most likely replace the Mini DisplayPort.

 

[thunng8]

13" MBA would most likely have LV CPU, which is faster than found in the Samsung 9.

Likely since for this generation at least, Apple seem to be willing to sacrifice heat and higher fan noise to get faster processors in their laptops. I.e. The 13" and 15" MBP 2011 Models are much noisier than last year's models.

FYI, the Samsung series 9 is the same size as the 13" macbook air and despite using ULV chips already runs hot.

 

[fyrefly]

Likely since for this generation at least, Apple seem to be willing to sacrifice heat and higher fan noise to get faster processors in their laptops. I.e. The 13" and 15" MBP 2011 Models are much noisier than last year's models.

FYI, the Samsung series 9 is the same size as the 13" macbook air and despite using ULV chips already runs hot.

Whether or not the Samsung runs hot doesn't exactly prove anything.

Apple has had the 13" MBA form-factor (more of less) for 3+ years at this point... they know what thermals will fit in it.

And at 17W, the U/LV Sandy Bridge processor fit within the same thermals as the Core2Duo's they're replacing.

The 13" and 15" MBPs of 2011 both went UP in TDP (thermals) than their predecessors - by 10W per model. (13" went 25W->35W and 15" went 35W->45W). The MBA, if we presume they're gonna use U/LV processors, are gonna stay the same/slightly lower TDP as their Core2Duo predecessors.

Therefore, it's presumed (as no-one will know for sure till the 2011 MBA is released - IF it is too) that the 2011 MBA will not be a potboiler of a machine, at least with TDP factored in.

That being said, the tests on Anandtech say that the SB i7's in the 13/15" MBP can consume more than their thermal envelope when they're turbo-boosting on high load tasks. (The 15"/17" processors can get up to 95W on a 45W part! - But that also includes the GPU and the PCH). Whether the U/LV models do that has yet to be seen - and like I said, won't really be known until if/when the 2011 MBA rears it's head.

 

[KylePowers]

Likely since for this generation at least, Apple seem to be willing to sacrifice heat and higher fan noise to get faster processors in their laptops. I.e. The 13" and 15" MBP 2011 Models are much noisier than last year's models.

FYI, the Samsung series 9 is the same size as the 13" macbook air and despite using ULV chips already runs hot.

I don't think that's a particularly good comparison. While size is certainly a factor, there's a lot more to it. The way the insides are laid out for airflow, how efficient the fans are, how open the vent is, how thermally effective the heatsinks used are, how thermally effective the thermal paste used is, how efficiently the chip is ran (maybe OSX is better at doing this than Windows), how hot other components get (and how close they are to each other). Surely the list goes on.

 

[jvmxtra]

whatever happen to buy a mac and get $200 off ipad deal?

 

[MrXiro]

Might be a little off topic, but any chance that a thunderbolt port could REPLACE an existing USB port on the refreshed MBA? Therefore say one thunderbolt port and one USB port? That would be an auto deal breaker for myself and I would think others.

Why would it do that when it already replaces the Mini Display port on all the other models? I think Apple will just stick to that trend... and I think I read that the Mini Display port is the only ones that can be called Thunderbolt.

 

[Hellhammer]

Likely since for this generation at least, Apple seem to be willing to sacrifice heat and higher fan noise to get faster processors in their laptops. I.e. The 13" and 15" MBP 2011 Models are much noisier than last year's models.

FYI, the Samsung series 9 is the same size as the 13" macbook air and despite using ULV chips already runs hot.

Then again, Lenovo X1 is 0.83" at its thickest point and it comes with an SV (35W) CPU, so just looking at other manufacturers' products isn't going to guarantee what Apple will use.

 

[warfed]

FYI, the Samsung series 9 is the same size as the 13" macbook air and despite using ULV chips already runs hot.

According to notebookcheck the Samsung is actually quite a bit cooler (and quieter at load) than the MBA:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Samsung-900X3A-Subnotebook.50378.0.html

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Apple-MacBook-Air-13-Inch-2010-Subnotebook.40961.0.html

Edit: That site is a little misleading the default on the MBA is at Load and Idle on the Samsung. But after checking again the Samsung is cooler at idle but hotter at load, although quieter.

 

[0092762]

This thread and all thread about this same topic can be solved with an answer to a simple question.

Do you play 3D games on your Macbook Air?

Yes: Current 2010 MBA with Nvidia 320m would be better suited.

No: The 2011 SB MBA would better suit your needs.

Therefore the answer to this thread is that the 2011 SB MBA would be your best bet.

Thank you for the voice of reason. GPU's are pretty much worthless outside of gaming, for which I say buy a console anyway. It's true they're also used in flash and HD video acceleration, but every intel IGP since the 4500M HD can do that anyway. OpenCL is a joke and it's not really going to catch on since programming GPU's are hard and they only work in very few specific areas.

 

[Hellhammer]

It's true they're also used in flash and HD video acceleration, but every intel IGP since the 4500M HD can do that anyway.

And Sandy Bridge features QuickSync which makes its IGP more powerful at transcoding videos than the high-end desktop GPUs, so video playback should not be in the list of issues. Apple just has to come out of the box and add support for it. Currently FaceTime is the only app supporting it AFAIK.

 

[Project]

I find the advice to go with a refurb C2D kinda crazy in all honesty.

If this guy is looking to have a laptop that will last him 4 or 5 years it makes the most sense to go with the latest and greatest processor considering he doesn't game. C2D might be adequate now but who knows what the case may be in 2 or 3 years time and what it will/wont support? I remember when people were saying G5s were still fine when the first Intel Macs were released. An extreme example maybe but it just goes to show that Apple tend to be ruthless when it comes to obsoleting old hardware.

 

[Hellhammer]

I remember when people were saying G5s were still fine when the first Intel Macs were released.

Two totally different things so it's irrelevant. Sandy Bridge CPUs are still x86, just like C2Ds are. G5 to Intel was a move from one instruction set to another (PPC -> x86). That is why the support for PPC Macs dropped so quickly. In order to support both instruction sets, you needed to sets of code or something similar (there are universal apps and emulators but this software side isn't really my area of expertise).

However, all apps made today and in near future are designed to run on x86, thus the support for C2Ds isn't going anywhere. Some apps may require faster CPU to operate smoothly but for those apps, MBA shouldn't be your main computer anyway.

 

[pandamonia]

You will find that people who say go C2D are the people who own a C2D and they like their safety in numbers.

Anyone with half a brain knows that the C2D design is now about 6 years old.

Sandybridge has brought serious improvements in power and thermal design.

Why would you need a powerful GPU in a MBA anyway?

Playing REAL games on a MBA is a lesson in stupidity. Even my 2010 MBP with the 330GT dedicated has a hard time running REAL games on average settings AND they are run in Windows 7. OSX kills performance in games.

 

[blipmusic]

Why would you need a powerful GPU in a MBA anyway? Playing REAL games on a MBA is a lesson in stupidity.

Funny, here I thought that *I* decided what I want to use *my* computer for, when you were obviously pulling the strings all along.

Stop these kind of idiotic posts. This comes up Every. Fudging. Time. in the MBA threads. I want a forum filter.

I want one (1) computer, I want/need it to be as mobile as possible and I have no interest in leaving Mac OS for the moment.

That *will* include the occasional game. I'm not delusional. I'm not expecting the cutting edge games to play with max details and 1024xAA on an external 42" 'retina' monitor. However, alot of todays games *will* play with lowered details, and, when needed, lower than native res. And you know what? I'm fine with that. I'm fine with my game not speeding along at 60 fps. It's not a prioritized task anyway.

Currently I'm at a point where I'll take the GPU hit for some extra CPU, since I'm guessing we'll then have at least the same battery length with added power for everyday tasks. I don't really want to but due to a business deal (or the lack there of) between nVidia and Intel, we'll never know what we could have had. I can't get a new MBA right now and we don't have refurbs from Apple where I live so... SB (or beyond) it is.

HD3000 or not, you can bet I'll still fire up the odd game every now and then. If you want to kick and scream about what I use my computer for then I don't know what to say.

 

[Project]

Two totally different things so it's irrelevant. Sandy Bridge CPUs are still x86, just like C2Ds are. G5 to Intel was a move from one instruction set to another (PPC -> x86). That is why the support for PPC Macs dropped so quickly. In order to support both instruction sets, you needed to sets of code or something similar (there are universal apps and emulators but this software side isn't really my area of expertise).

However, all apps made today and in near future are designed to run on x86, thus the support for C2Ds isn't going anywhere. Some apps may require faster CPU to operate smoothly but for those apps, MBA shouldn't be your main computer anyway.

You conveniently left out "an extreme example".

I know there will not be a PPC > x86 transition. My point is that Apple are aggressive when it comes to cutting off old hardware. Whether it is an outright feature missing (multitasking on iOS), or cutting corners (animations). We just do not know what is coming down the line, so it makes sense to get the latest and greatest.

 

[lasuther]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

I remember when people were saying G5s were still fine when the first Intel Macs were released.

Two totally different things so it's irrelevant. Sandy Bridge CPUs are still x86, just like C2Ds are. G5 to Intel was a move from one instruction set to another (PPC -> x86). That is why the support for PPC Macs dropped so quickly. In order to support both instruction sets, you needed to sets of code or something similar (there are universal apps and emulators but this software side isn't really my area of expertise).

However, all apps made today and in near future are designed to run on x86, thus the support for C2Ds isn't going anywhere. Some apps may require faster CPU to operate smoothly but for those apps, MBA shouldn't be your main computer anyway.

I think a more important issue is OS support for the CD2. Lion will not support core solo/duo processors (I believe) which are just a few years old. It is likely that CD2 will not be supported in some future OS. If someone plans on keeping the MBA for 3 years, buying a CD2 at the end of life is a bad idea.

 

[voigtstr]

The new intel chip.... can it push less polygons than the current nvidia? I'm wanting the 13" Air for EVE when I'm away from my iMac 27". The next release of EVE requires shader 3 tech.

Will the new Air fail at EVE?

 

[voigtstr]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)



I think a more important issue is OS support for the CD2. Lion will not support core solo/duo processors (I believe) which are just a few years old. It is likely that CD2 will not be supported in some future OS. If someone plans on keeping the MBA for 3 years, buying a CD2 at the end of life is a bad idea.

is the new air still going to be core2 duo? Where is the information saying Lion wont support particular processors?

 

[fyrefly]

I think a more important issue is OS support for the CD2. Lion will not support core solo/duo processors (I believe) which are just a few years old. It is likely that CD2 will not be supported in some future OS. If someone plans on keeping the MBA for 3 years, buying a CD2 at the end of life is a bad idea.

CoreSolo/CoreDuo are all from 2006. So they are now 5 years old. That's not necessarily a "few".

The issue is that Apple is quickly obsoleting machines, but the truth is that Lion will run just fine on a CoreDuo/Core2Duo machine, despite being "unsupported". I've installed a friend's Developer Preview on a White CoreDuo MacBook from 2006 and found no ill effects.

That doesn't change the fact that if the MBA updates to SB in the next 2-3 weeks, then buying a core2Duo MBA and planning to keep it for 5 years isn't the best plan.

is the new air still going to be core2 duo? Where is the information saying Lion wont support particular processors?

The Lion Developer Previews have been unsupported on CoreDuo, CoreSolo machines (and the Core2Duo "late 2006" iMacs for some weird reason:

http://www.macnn.com/articles/11/02/24/core.solo.core.duo.machines.may.be.left.out/

But, as stated above, Lion will run on a CoreDuo, easily, and run just as well as it did on a Core2Duo or later.

 

[DarwinOSX]

No. Do some research. These Core 2 Duos are not nearly the same as 5 years ago. Smaller die size, more and faster cache, faster gate process.

CoreSolo/CoreDuo are all from 2006. So they are now 5 years old. That's not necessarily a "few".