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hitekalex

macrumors 68000
Feb 4, 2008
1,624
0
Chicago, USA
First, I don't think Expose type view is the way to go about this. What happens if you have more than 4 active applications? Also, complex invocation methods like 4-finger gestures or triple home clicks - not really needed.

A better approach would be to implement an application "card view". Apple already does card view in mobile Safari, for switching between the active tabs. Just extend the same concept to the applications. Instead of little dots indicating open Safari tabs, use mini app icons for easy jumping between open apps. App cards come up with red x's in the corner for closing them (again same as Safari tabs). Simple, intuitive, and familiar to anyone who has used iPhone.

And for invocation of "app card view" mode.. Single home button press. Nothing more complex needed. Now that iPhone OS supports multitasking, single home button press should have slightly different behavior. To exit card view completely to the home screen - give the user a "home screen" icon while in card view.
 

MikhailT

macrumors 601
Nov 12, 2007
4,582
1,325
First, I don't think Expose type view is the way to go about this. What happens if you have more than 4 active applications? Also, complex invocation methods like 4-finger gestures or triple home clicks - not really needed.

A better approach would be to implement an application "card view". Apple already does card view in mobile Safari, for switching between the active tabs. Just extend the same concept to the applications. Instead of little dots indicating open Safari tabs, use mini app icons for easy jumping between open apps. App cards come up with red x's in the corner for closing them (again same as Safari tabs). Simple, intuitive, and familiar to anyone who has used iPhone.

And for invocation of "app card view" mode.. Single home button press. Nothing more complex needed. Now that iPhone OS supports multitasking, single home button press should have slightly different behavior. To exit card view completely to the home screen - give the user a "home screen" icon while in card view.

Expose would just resize the preview screen to fit all the running apps. That's how it works. Card view is basically Expose (with just one row), just a different name by a different company. Expose can be modified to show minor app screens on the bottom as page turner, it already does this for minimized apps on Snow leopard.

On your idea about home screen, might as well add the spotlight page as well. In this case, there's no home screen really, the expose/dashboard mode is the way to do everything, not only launching apps but managing them as well.
 

vertigo78

macrumors regular
Oct 2, 2008
100
0
the bezel having multitouch capabilities could add endless possibilities including multitasking through an expose touch button or gesture
 

hitekalex

macrumors 68000
Feb 4, 2008
1,624
0
Chicago, USA
Expose would just resize the preview screen to fit all the running apps. That's how it works. Card view is basically Expose (with just one row), just a different name by a different company. Expose can be modified to show minor app screens on the bottom as page turner, it already does this for minimized apps on Snow leopard.

The nice thing about "Card view" (obviously Apple won't call it that) is that it can be implemented consistently both on iPhone or iPad. Clearly, Expose type approach won't work on small screens. I am pretty sure Apple will implement this in a reasonably consistent manner for all platforms running iPhone OS.
 

roland.g

macrumors 604
Apr 11, 2005
7,414
3,152
Let me ask a pretty dumb question. But to my understanding the iPad has multitasking as does the current iPhone for the most part. Maybe you just want it to work the way you want it to but:

If I am in Mail on my iPhone and I hit the home button, go to Safari and copy something to drop into my email and then go back to mail, I am brought right back to where I left off in composition. I imagine Pages, Numbers, Keynote, Mail, etc would all work like this. Same with gaming. If I am playing a game and I hit the home button in most games, when I relaunch the game, I get to start where I left off. Now obviously this isn't the same for every app or game, but it is for almost all Apple apps. Likewise, you might say that relaunching something takes time and that is why you want a invoke command to pick from your expose style windows, but does Apple put little red x circles like safari pages on each app so you can shut them down, is 4 the limit, what happens when you try to launch more than the limit? Remember the iPad is significantly faster and so launching an app, even a game to the point where you last were will not be as slow as on the iPhone. Do you really want to commit that much system memory to actively keeping several apps open in that style system?
 

FrankieTDouglas

macrumors 68000
Mar 10, 2005
1,554
2,882
Well... that's great, but we ain't talkin' about an iPhone here. I like the 4 finger swipe idea as well.

Well... It's just a bigger version of the iPhone (minus the phone, camera, messaging, and standard GPS).

The OP asked about how this could be implemented, and I'm showing you that it already has been on this OS. The ipad will be jailbroken pretty soon after release, so Proswitcher or some other multitasking app will be there.
 

Sydde

macrumors 68030
Aug 17, 2009
2,552
7,050
IOKWARDI
the bezel having multitouch capabilities could add endless possibilities including multitasking through an expose touch button or gesture

Actually, many of those of us who find the general concept appealing also think the bezel is the ugliest part of the unit and fervently hope it will eventually shrivel up and fall off (a rolled edge and anodized or brushed surface would be a big aesthetic improvement and also help with weight, portability and durability).
 

mtnDewFTW

macrumors 6502a
Oct 26, 2009
900
172
San Francisco, CA
I could see this being implemented into the jailbreak, if Apple doesn't do it themselves.

I still think that this is just ridiculous. Why can't they let us just multitask for once?
 

Sketh

macrumors 6502
Sep 14, 2007
256
0
I could see this being implemented into the jailbreak, if Apple doesn't do it themselves.

I still think that this is just ridiculous. Why can't they let us just multitask for once?


They'll let us when they find a Appley way of doing it.
 

DrummerB

macrumors member
Mar 5, 2008
56
0
What if they used the normal back to home function? App developers could define a default exit mode for their apps (quit or background), but the user should be able to change that. Apps that are running in the background would be highlighed on the homescreen somehow, similar to the running apps on the Mac OSX dock. I'm not sure how you could quit a background app though.
 

grahamtearne

macrumors regular
Jun 23, 2006
192
0
I dont think any of this really needs to be added to the iPad, it does not need full on multitasking, only basic multitasking, let me explain.

iPhone OS already HAS multitasking support, however this is just for the Apple core apps such as iPod. Thanks to this we know it has the power to run for example iPod + another app.

Now do we really want, especially on a device like the iPad that was designed, lets face it, for the more casual use of browsing, using a few apps etc, a complicated task management system. We are all computer literate, people like my Dad who has a laptop to use the internet doesn't need to know where things are in the background etc, and that is the bueaty of this device. Its that fast he can be browsing > hit home > open pages -> finish in pages, hit home hit safari and he is browsing again, simple. Commands for expose, task managment applications are NOT needed. This is not Windows, Linux or Mac OSX.

So we know that apps can already run in the background, all Apple needs to do is allow developers to do the same. It would be reviewed upon submission and if an application such as a game has it enabled it gets rejected, because there is no need for it to run in the background (save state->home(quit)->do other tasks->back to NFS, resumes from saved state).

So what apps should be allowed backgrounf privaldges? Audio apps. Simple, give audio apps like radio apps the ability to run in the background. The system can be smart about it and because it knows an AUDIO application is running it automatically kills 'iPod' (or the previously running audio application) and runs background (even when paused, just idles like iPod) until another audio application is opened. This way it acts in a way users are familiar with in the way iPod acts, it doesn't get confusing to the user wondering what apps he has open, and it doesn't bog the system down with too many applications being needlessly opened.

Now they could do the same for IM apps and give them a specific background process ID and they behave similar in they run until another application doing the same job is opened. But this isnt even required, if unobtusive notifications get added Push could just be used instead.

Example.
User is listening to iPod and surfing safari. Decides wants to listen to web radio. Opens mlb.tv and starts a radio stream, iPod detects this is the now active audio app and closes. User returns to safari and browses listening to the game, user then gets a notification (maybe using a notification bar more like the pre?) that he has a new IM, hits home goes to IM app (or hits the notifation tab) safari closes IM opens, he types and then hits home back to safari.

Simple. All of a sudden with just backgrounded audio and push for IM(email) etc and a forground app its like you have 3 applications running.

This is not like a PC where you will do things SIDE by SIDE. You have ONE app displaying the whole screen at once in fullscreen so there is no need for MULTITASKING, just basic background support (for applications that NEED it). On a PC you may have a word document open with a browser next to it and a video playing 'on top', that isnt possible on a device that shows one fullscreened window at once, so why support multitasking which will allow videos to be played in the background when you are in another app and cant see it, it will drain battery and slow down the machine. The ONLY advantage your suggestions add IMO is that it would speed up switching regularly used applications and that while being a bonus is not enough to slow down the system and make it more confusing to other users as the hit home hit icon way of switching is fast enough. Plus hopefully apple will allow more than 4 applications on the dock so no matter what home screen you are on those regularly used apps are easy to reach.
 

hitekalex

macrumors 68000
Feb 4, 2008
1,624
0
Chicago, USA
So we know that apps can already run in the background, all Apple needs to do is allow developers to do the same. It would be reviewed upon submission and if an application such as a game has it enabled it gets rejected, because there is no need for it to run in the background (save state->home(quit)->do other tasks->back to NFS, resumes from saved state).

Problem with this is there is no way to tell which apps are running in the background.. and there is no way for the user to fully close the backgrounded apps.

It's not a big issue with the current iPhone OS, as it can only run 3 apps in the background (Mail, iPod, and Safari). If you open it up to 3rd party apps - the user needs to be able to (a) easily switch between the open apps, (b) see which apps are active, and (c) close backgrounded apps.
 

grahamtearne

macrumors regular
Jun 23, 2006
192
0
Problem with this is there is no way to tell which apps are running in the background.. and there is no way for the user to fully close the backgrounded apps.

It's not a big issue with the current iPhone OS, as it can only run 3 apps in the background (Mail, iPod, and Safari). If you open it up to 3rd party apps - the user needs to be able to (a) easily switch between the open apps, (b) see which apps are active, and (c) close backgrounded apps.

I think you missed my point slightly. What I am saying is their is no need for the user to know what is running in the background, it just works.

Another point I mentioned is that because all of the iPad apps run fullscreen there is no need to allow apps that don't need to be run in the background to be abale to run. Why have a word processor running in the background when your in Safari? just keep to the current save state and quit. There is no real advantage to keeping it running, it will use some resources and eat battery power, just have it resume from the state it was at when it closed.

MOST apps do not need or have any purpose of backgrounding. The only ones I can really think of are audio apps (web radio etc) and maybe IM apps (but even then push can work around that).

I am a believer that some backgroun/multitasking really needs to be added, but I do not believe a full on multitasking feature should be added as it loses more than it gains (LOSES battery/speed/ease of use) (GAINS speedier at switching apps)
 

grahamtearne

macrumors regular
Jun 23, 2006
192
0
Problem with this is there is no way to tell which apps are running in the background.. and there is no way for the user to fully close the backgrounded apps.

It's not a big issue with the current iPhone OS, as it can only run 3 apps in the background (Mail, iPod, and Safari). If you open it up to 3rd party apps - the user needs to be able to (a) easily switch between the open apps, (b) see which apps are active, and (c) close backgrounded apps.

And when I say open it up to 3rd party applictions I mean apple will review whether its required and if not needs to be taken out, each category of app would have like a background id and when a new app of that background id opens it closes the current one, (ie web radio and ipod = audio, ipod closes automatically when web radio opens) Just like a user DOESNT need to know now that mail and ipod run in the background it would work the same.

No background video or office applications because not needed, could open up to IM applications so a new category that can be backgrounded etc.
 

hitekalex

macrumors 68000
Feb 4, 2008
1,624
0
Chicago, USA
I think you missed my point slightly. What I am saying is their is no need for the user to know what is running in the background, it just works.

No, I understand what you're suggesting (basically an extension of the existing model to a selected few 3rd party apps).

But what if you want to completely exit a backgrounded app? For example, you loaded Skype client in the background, but later decide you want to close it. Rebooting the device would be the only way to do it, unless you expose some controls in the UI.
 

GoCubsGo

macrumors Nehalem
Feb 19, 2005
35,741
153
First, I don't think Expose type view is the way to go about this. What happens if you have more than 4 active applications? Also, complex invocation methods like 4-finger gestures or triple home clicks - not really needed.

A better approach would be to implement an application "card view". Apple already does card view in mobile Safari, for switching between the active tabs. Just extend the same concept to the applications. Instead of little dots indicating open Safari tabs, use mini app icons for easy jumping between open apps. App cards come up with red x's in the corner for closing them (again same as Safari tabs). Simple, intuitive, and familiar to anyone who has used iPhone.

And for invocation of "app card view" mode.. Single home button press. Nothing more complex needed. Now that iPhone OS supports multitasking, single home button press should have slightly different behavior. To exit card view completely to the home screen - give the user a "home screen" icon while in card view.

4 finger swipe would be good. How can you say it's unnecessary? While I get your point of card view, you're not thinking outside the box enough. Here is what happens when you have too many windows open in Expose ... they resize:

Some:
Screen shot 2010-02-01 at 11.01.11 AM.jpg
Some More:
Screen shot 2010-02-01 at 11.01.41 AM.jpg
 

hitekalex

macrumors 68000
Feb 4, 2008
1,624
0
Chicago, USA
4 finger swipe would be good. How can you say it's unnecessary? While I get your point of card view, you're not thinking outside the box enough. Here is what happens when you have too many windows open in Expose ... they resize:

Yeah, traditional Expose may work OK on a 24" screen in Snow Leopard.. but it would be a complete mess on a smaller 9.7" display. And it won't work at all on iPhone screens.

Taking traditional Mac OS implementations and directly porting them onto iPhone OS is the exactly wrong approach. Apple won't do anything like this.
 

NeuralControl

macrumors 6502a
Dec 3, 2009
921
38
I like the way you executed the mockup. It would be really nice if the iPad had Expose (and obviously multi-tasking.)
 

Sketh

macrumors 6502
Sep 14, 2007
256
0
First, I don't think Expose type view is the way to go about this. What happens if you have more than 4 active applications? Also, complex invocation methods like 4-finger gestures or triple home clicks - not really needed.

A better approach would be to implement an application "card view". Apple already does card view in mobile Safari, for switching between the active tabs. Just extend the same concept to the applications. Instead of little dots indicating open Safari tabs, use mini app icons for easy jumping between open apps. App cards come up with red x's in the corner for closing them (again same as Safari tabs). Simple, intuitive, and familiar to anyone who has used iPhone.

And for invocation of "app card view" mode.. Single home button press. Nothing more complex needed. Now that iPhone OS supports multitasking, single home button press should have slightly different behavior. To exit card view completely to the home screen - give the user a "home screen" icon while in card view.

The expose view could have multiple pages, just like the springboard does.

I'm convinced that the most practical way of multi-tasking would be for an expose view that is invoked with a gesture, and closed with the home button.

It just fits in with the rules of current iPhone usage.
 

hitekalex

macrumors 68000
Feb 4, 2008
1,624
0
Chicago, USA
The expose view could have multiple pages, just like the springboard does.

I'm convinced that the most practical way of multi-tasking would be for an expose view that is invoked with a gesture, and closed with the home button.

It just fits in with the rules of current iPhone usage.

It does? What OS-wide gestures are supported on the current iPhone? None. The only invocation methods that are supported today are home button presses (single or multiples).

As I mentioned above, Expose won't work on small iPhone screens. Unless you consider a card view (mobile Safari tab style) a form of Expose.. which I don't.
 

Sketh

macrumors 6502
Sep 14, 2007
256
0
I was speaking in relative terms to how the iPad goes up and down from layers on an application. They're new "Pinch in Pinch out" gesture.

Expose could work on a small screen as well, as the title would be listed under the app, but hey, have it both ways. I'm speaking in terms of for the iPad, a card view on a screen as large as the iPads would be horrendous. Swiping between all the open apps on a screen that large.

Also, how would it be a mess on a 9.7 screen? All of the apps are the same dimensions, as opposed to on Snow leopard. Everything would be consistant.
 

LethalWolfe

macrumors G3
Jan 11, 2002
9,370
124
Los Angeles
If anyone has used a Palm Pre or Palm Pixi their implementation of multitasking is simple and effective, IMO. A basic UI difference though is that that WebOS supports global and app specific gestures so the Pre and Pixi have a small area at the base of the screen for global gestures (such as to go into card view to navigate between open apps or pull up the quick launch menu).


Lethal
 

hitekalex

macrumors 68000
Feb 4, 2008
1,624
0
Chicago, USA
I'm speaking in terms of for the iPad, a card view on a screen as large as the iPads would be horrendous. Swiping between all the open apps on a screen that large.

It wouldn't be any more difficult than switching between open Safari tabs. Apple already implements "card view" for mobile Safari tabs - both on iPhone and iPad. If you can switch between multiple Safari pages on an iPad screen, why not multiple apps?

Anyway, my gut feel is that Apple won't give us any of this. If anything, they will most likely just extend the existing "invisible backgrounding" model, similar to what grahamtearne described.
 
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