How old is old for a computer?

[RacerX]

A computer is old the moment you take it out of its box. It is, however, not too old until it's no longer able to run the software you require (some will add at a reasonable speed).

That is pretty much the way I look at it. I generally look at what I need to do, what software I have available and what hardware I have available then decide on a suitable combination.

Looking around this room at what computers I have in service currently...

• PowerBook G3 Wallstreet (1998, 8 years old)- G4/500 with 1 MB of L2, 512 MB of memory, ATI Rage Lite with 4 MB of VRAM, 40 GB (main) hard drive and 20 GB (expansion bay) hard drive, USB 2 PCMCIA card, CDRW drive (expansion bay), Mac OS X v10.2.8
• Beige G3 Mini Tower (1997, 9 years old)- G4/533 with 1 MB of L2, 640 MB of memory, ATI Rage with 6 MB of VRAM (built in, not in use) and ATI Radeon 7000 with 32 MB of VRAM, 20" display, 80 GB hard drive on an UltraATA-66 card, USB card, CD-ROM drive and DVD-ROM drive, Mac OS X v10.3.9
• SGI Indy (1994, 12 years old)- MIPS R4400/175 with 1 MB of L2, 128 MB of memory, Indy Video and Cosmo Compression cards, 21" display, 9.1 GB hard drive (soon to have a second), CD-ROM drive, ZIP drive, IRIX 6.2
• Power Macintosh 7500 (1995, 11 years old)- PowerPC 604e/210 with 256k of L2, 64 MB of memory, 4 MB of VRAM on logic board, 14" display, 9.1 GB and 3 GB hard drives, CD-ROM drive, Mac OS X Server 1.2 (Rhapsody 5.6)
• Power Macintosh 8100av (1994, 12 years old)- G3/500 with 1 MB of L2, 208 MB of memory, Apple AV card with 2 MB of VRAM, 20" display, 4.5 GB hard drive, CD-ROM drive, ZIP drive, scanner, Mac OS 8.6
• Power Macintosh 8600 (1997, 9 years old)- G3/450 with 1 MB of L2, 256 MB of memory, 4 MB of VRAM on logic board and an ixMicro TwinTurbo 128M video card with 8 MB VRAM, two 16" displays, 9.1 GB and 4.5 GB hard drives, CD-ROM drive, ZIP drive, CDR drive, Mac OS 8.6
• iMac/350 (2000, 6 years old)- G3/350 with 512k of L2, 512 MB of memory, an ATI Rage 128 video card with 8 MB VRAM, 30 GB hard drive, DVD-ROM drive, external equalized and stereo speakers, Mac OS X v10.2.8
• Macintosh Quadra 950 (1992, 14 years old)- PowerPC 601/66 with 1 MB of L2, 136 MB of memory, 2 MB of VRAM on logic board and two Radius display cards, three 21" displays, 500 MB and 9.1 GB hard drives, two CD-ROM drives, ZIP drive, Mac OS 8.1
• IBM ThinkPad 760ED (1996, 10 years old)- Pentium/133 with 256 MB of L2, 80 MB of memory, 2 MB of VRAM, 6 GB (Rhapsody) or 2 GB (OPENSTEP) hard drives, CD-ROM drive, Rhapsody 5.1 (usually) or OPENSTEP 4.2
• Power Macintosh 8600 (1997, 9 years old)- PowerPC 604e/300 with 1 MB of L2, 416 MB of memory, 4 MB of VRAM on logic board and an ATI Rage 128 video card with 16 MB VRAM, two 17" displays, 9.1 GB hard drive, CD-ROM drive, Mac OS X Server 1.2 (Rhapsody 5.6)
• PowerBook 3400c (1997, 9 years old)- PowerPC 603e/200 with 256k of L2, 80 MB of memory, 10 GB hard drive, CD-ROM drive, Mac OS 8.6
• PowerBook Duo 2300c (1995, 11 years old)- PowerPC 603e/100 with 256k of L2, 56 MB of memory, 1.2 GB hard drive, Mac OS 8.6
• PowerBook G3 Pismo (2000, 6 years old)- G3/400 with 1 MB of L2, 256 MB of memory, ATI Rage 128 Mobile with 8 MB of VRAM, 10 GB hard drive, DVD-ROM drive (expansion bay), Mac OS X v10.3.9

Almost all of these are old by some people's standards. But they all perform tasks that I need for my work...

• PowerBook G3 Wallstreet- This has been my main system for quite a few years, but it is now my primary internet and writing computer.
• Beige G3 Mini Tower- This system has taken over for my Wallstreet as my main work system running my primary work apps.
• SGI Indy- Has been my main video capture system for about 6 years now. Can capture at full frame size at full frame rate.
• Power Macintosh 7500- originally my main Rhapsody workstation, it is now doing server duties.
• Power Macintosh 8100av- Originally my main classic Mac OS system, it is handing off those duties to an 8600
• Power Macintosh 8600- Taking over for the 8100av as my primary classic Mac OS system.
• iMac/350- Mainly an iTunes system now, it was also the back up system for when my wife used to have an account on my PowerBook.
• Macintosh Quadra 950- Primary system for older apps and games.
• IBM ThinkPad 760ED- Primary mobile system for work, holds documentation on pretty much all Apple hardware. Was also my primary Rhapsody system at one point and is my main OPENSTEP system for running NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP apps.
• Power Macintosh 8600- This is my main Rhapsody workstation were I spend most of my time in Rhapsody. It is the system that I use for working on either my Rhapsody or NeXT web sites.
• PowerBook 3400c- Mainly this system has been put together as a training system. It has a ton of software and documentation/tutorials for teaching people how to use that software. I've loaned it out to clients and friends who needed to learn how to use apps which they didn't already own so that they would have experience with it before being confronted with those apps on the job.
• PowerBook Duo 2300c- Main computer for school. It has copies of most of my math apps and is light enough to fit in my backpack along with a number of books.
• PowerBook G3 Pismo- My wife's main computer.

There are two primary advantages to older systems... usually the hardware is reasonably priced and (depending on the age) the software tends to be relatively inexpensive too.

My PowerBook 3400c is an ideal example of this. Hardware wise, I got it for free from a client (perfect price). Software wise, this system has installed on it:

Adobe Acrobat 5.0, Adobe Distiller 5.0, Adobe Acrobat Catalog 4.0, Adobe Dimensions 1.0, Adobe GoLive 5.0, Adobe Illustrator 8.0, Adobe ImageReady 2.0, Adobe LiveMotion 1.0, Adobe PageMaker 6.5, Adobe PageMill 3.0, Adobe Photoshop 5.5, Adobe Premiere 5.1, Adobe Type Manager Deluxe 4.6, AppleWorks 6.2.8, Apple iTunes 1.0, BBEdit Lite 6.0, ClarisDraw 1.0, Corel PHOTO-PAINT 8 LE, Corel WordPerfect 3.5e, CorelDraw 8 LE, Fetch 3.0.3, FileMaker Pro 5.0, Fractal Design Painter 5.0.3, Kai's PowerTools, Macromedia Flash 5.0, Mathcad PLUS 6, Mathematica 2.2.2, MathReader 4.2, MetaCreations Bryce 3D, Microsoft Excel 98, Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.1.7, Microsoft Outlook Express 5.0.6, Microsoft PowerPoint 98, Microsoft Word 98, Microsoft Word 5.1a, Mozilla 1.3.1, Netscape 7.0.2, Netscape Communicator 4.8, Nisus Compact 3.4, Nisus Write 4.1.6, Opera 6.0.3, Softpress Freeway 2.0.3 LE, PiXELS 3D Studio 3.7, QuarkXPress 3.32, QuarkXPress 4.11, QuickTime Pro 5, QuickTime 6.0.3, ResEdit, SimpleText, Sound Studio 2.0.7, SoundEdit 16 2.0.7, SoundEffects 0.9.2, Strata VideoShop 4.0, Strata DVbase 5.0, StrataVision 3D 4.0, Strata 3Dbase 3.5, Theorist 2.0.1​

All of which I either already owned or was able to find on ebay at very reasonable prices.

To attempt to have that type of software selection on a newer PowerBook/iBook would be prohibitively expensive. One example would be Mathematica. I bought version 2.2.2 on ebay for $50, the current version would have cost me about $1800. Plus I don't own Mac OS X versions of (or there isn't even a Mac OS X version in some cases of) these apps:

Adobe Dimensions, Adobe Illustrator, Adobe PageMaker, Adobe PageMill, Adobe Premiere, ClarisDraw, Corel PHOTO-PAINT, Corel WordPerfect, CorelDraw, Fetch, FileMaker Pro, Painter, Kai's PowerTools, Macromedia Flash, Mathcad, Mathematica, Bryce, Nisus Write, Softpress Freeway, PiXELS 3D Studio, QuarkXPress, SoundEdit 16, Strata VideoShop, Strata DVbase, StrataVision 3D, Strata 3Dbase, or Theorist​

While some people think that only new will do, I've found that by researching the abilities of older hardware and software I've been able to provide myself (and in turn my clients) with functionality that would have cost a small fortune with current hardware and software.

 

[Nukemkb]

My most powerful computer is almost 28 years old and should be good for another 30. No plans on changing it any time soon.

what 'cha got?

 

[CoMpX]

My most powerful computer is almost 28 years old and should be good for another 30. No plans on changing it any time soon.

What kind of computer is that?

That is pretty much the way I look at it. I generally look at what I need to do, what software I have available and what hardware I have available then decide on a suitable combination.
<snip>

I have noticed you have not one modern computer. Why?

 

[portent]

For what it's worth, Apple discontinues parts availability outside California after 5 years. Machines older than 5 years are considered "Vintage."

After 7 years, Apple considers a computer "Obsolete." After this point, new parts are no longer available from Apple, and must be scrounged from third parties or other machines. (Seven years is the minimum period specified by California law.)
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=112142

 

[whocares]

What kind of computer is that?

Hint: most people have one too.

 

[RacerX]

Of course, all of the categories have exceptions (Mac SE/30 may be placed into "retro" category) but I think this is a generally good set of rules. I still continue to use Mac OS 7 on a near daily basis for a variety of tasks.

I would think that most of the Macintosh II series would also qualify... specially if they have been upgraded (I have a IIci with a 68040 upgrade card).

I think a lot of this has to do with software and it's ability to perform tasks. With most 68030 based systems you should have access to good writing apps, page layout apps, illustration apps and animation apps. Better video cards (like some from Radius) and/or a 68040 processor added more features for those categories and lets you add image editing apps and video editing apps.

For example, I have a hard time using Photoshop before version 5 (first with histories palette) and don't use any version before 3 (I have Photoshop 3.0.1 on my SGI Indy, but actually use GIMP on that system more than Photoshop) because the lack of useful features.

Of course there is the problem of software bloat too. In the case of Microsoft Word, I loved Word 5.1a. It was the perfect combination of features and usability. Microsoft screwed this all up in Word 6 (which required a 68040) and it wasn't fixed until Word 98*.

But I am a fan of the SE/30. I used one as my only system from 1991 to 1997 and was able to do tons of tasks with it (writing, page layout, illustration, mathematics and games).


On a historical note, I think many people also forget that what we list as important features today were not the primary tasks of 15-20 years ago. For example, while many people today consider Photoshop to be one of the most important apps for graphic design, back in the late 80's and early 90's Illustrator was the killer app of the time. And where video and multimedia are primary areas today, back in the late 80's and early 90's desktop publishing was the first area to be revolutionized by GUI computers.





* To Microsoft's credit, they did respond to the Mac communities out cries and started selling Word 5.1a again shortly after the release of Word 6.

 

[chairguru22]

My most powerful computer is almost 28 years old and should be good for another 30. No plans on changing it any time soon.

mine's 21 years old. i waited a couple years for the price to go down

 

[Killyp]

I consider a computer old when a newer one comes out which is worth buying from my point of view to replace the current one...

 

[MacsRgr8]

Yeah, it al depends on what you use it for.

A hardcore gamer would consider a computer old after about 6 months. If it doesn't run the newest FPS @ 100 fps on the max. settings it will be considered a retro-machine
He probably won't replace the whole computer, but most of its parts will only have a life expectancy of about half a year.

Home users who use internet, mail, alot of iLife etc. will consider their Mac old if the latest version of iLife cannot be installed due to the hardware specs.
Many (iMac-)G3 owners would have felt that way when seeing the requirements for iLife '06.

Personally I'd say about 3 years.... if there haven't been too many changes.
A G4 which was bought in 1999 wasn't considered old in 2002 because the specs weren't upgraded that much those 3 years later.
But a G4 bought in 2002 is considered vintage after the G5 was introdiced!

You get the picture...

 

[GimmeSlack12]

it's incapable of running the newest software I use, it's time to go

That is exactly what I think as well.

 

[CoMpX]

Hint: most people have one too.

I gotcha. Mines only 15 years old.

 

[RacerX]

I have noticed you have not one modern computer. Why?

Cost.

In order of importance, my income goes to:

1. rent
2. food
3. bills (utilities, sometimes car stuff)
4. entertainment (movies, DVDs, books)
5. education (needs to be moved up)
6. computers

In 2006 I have spent (so far) on computer related items about $300. That include shipping for one of the 8600s and some parts, replacement power supply for my SGI Indy, replacement DVD player for video capture, books (on Acrobat, WebObjects, Flash, LiveMotion, InDesign, Photoshop, Illustrator and Painter) and Quicktime 7 Pro. In 2005 I spent about $150 (mainly on books as I recall, and some Rhapsody stuff and older apps on ebay).

Basically I don't have the disposable income to buy what I don't absolutely need. And because I know how to get things done with combinations of older hardware and software, the need for new hardware and software hasn't been pressing enough to put those funds towards that.

Of the hardware I've acquired in the last few years, my cost have been for each of these systems:

Beige G3 Mini Tower with display and all upgrades... Free
PowerBook 3400c... Free (paid $20 for replacement keyboard)
PowerMac 8600/300 with upgrades... Free (about $50 for shipping)
PowerMac 8600/300... Free (trade for 8500 with G3/300 upgrade, which I had also gotten for free)
PowerBook Duo 2300c... $75 (both the PowerBook and memory upgrade)
PowerMac 7500 and upgrades... Free​

Which comes to about $145. Add in things like operating systems (Mac OS X Server 1.2 was $50, Mac OS X Server 1.2v3 was $35, Mac OS X v10.3 was $130, additional copies of Mac OS 8.5 were $19 a piece) and it has cost me about $400 for all these systems over a period of about three years (Mac OS X Server 1.2 was actually bought back in 2001).

Other than Mac OS X v10.3, the newest software titles I own are:

Stone Design Suite (free upgrades for life) -2006 for $290 (bought in 2002)
OmniWeb 5.1.3 -upgraded in 2005 for $19 (bought 2002 for $29)
QuickTime 7 Pro -2006 for $30
Quicken 2003 -2003 for $60
Photoshop/ImageReady 7.0.1 -2002 upgrade for $140
GoLive 6.0.1 -2002 upgrade for $100
LiveMotion 2.0 -2002 upgrade for $100
TIFFany 3 Professional 3.5 -2002 for $99 (discount from developer)
Watson 1.7 -2001 for $20
Acrobat 5 -2001 upgrade $100
Sound Studio -2001 for $50
AppleWorks 6 -2000 for $70​

And between those and free software titles I've been able to do most anything I could want in Mac OS X. When I find I need the ability to do more, I have older systems running older operating systems and older software that can provide that functionality. In the end there is very little I can't do with a computer that can be done with computers.

Besides, as a computer consultant my primary job is finding solutions for my clients. Those solutions need to be the best fit of functionality and cost. New hardware and software doesn't usually fit those parameters unless speed or features can only be found in them.

In my case, I only need to be as fast as the average user of the internet. When I'm making Flash or QuickTime content for web sites, if it works good on my systems (where the top of the line is a G4/533) then it should be fine for most computers made after about 2001. Otherwise, HTML is HTML and PDF is PDF, and are pretty hardware independent. Images are images and text is text, and are also hardware independent.

So in the end I can't really think of anything I need (for myself or that I provide for my clients) that requires a modern computer. Specially not enough to divert funds from other areas of our budget to pay for it.

 

[MacsRgr8]

I love your posts, RacerX.

They are always so complete and detailed!

 

[RacerX]

I love your posts, RacerX.

Thanks!

 

[dornoforpyros]

my powerbook is 5 years old, the only thing that makes it feel old at this point is the lack of a DVD drive. It's got 1gb of ram and handles photoshop just fine, not as great as my g5, but better than other computers I've used.

 

[YS2003]

Sadly it's not one of mine. That's how Linux people talk!

I had blessed my old Compaq with this holly liquid of Linux as it was running Windows ME .
Once I determine my computer is getting old, I use it for some experimentations.
My 5 year old Ti PB is running well even though I don't do the heavy duty graphic works. I use it more for the iTune juke box, ripping DVD with MacTheRipper to the external HD, and other grunt works so that I don't put too much wear and tear on my newer machines.

 

[whocares]

Cost.

In order of importance, my income goes to:

1. rent
2. food
3. bills (utilities, sometimes car stuff)
4. entertainment (movies, DVDs, books)
5. education (needs to be moved up)
6. computers

IMO education should come a least 4th, if not earlier. Nice to see you have your priorities responsibly laid out.

 

[TEG]

In the Mac World Anything 6 years or newer is good, 8 years is old, beyond that, they are only of any value if running older software.

In the PC world, anything older than 3 years is almost useless, unless you run Linux or older software.

TEG

 

[bradc]

Insurance companies declare that a computer should last three years. For me, I just upgrade when I think it's right. I will definitely be buying a 'Mac Pro' because the ability to have virtualization is HUGE for me. But, that doesn't make my G5 old. I love my G5, there's something about 9 fans, water-cooling and a lot of aluminum that's appealing! Haha it's a bond.

 

[iBunny]

If I dont get a new computer every year, I feel behind. So , every year

 

[iBookG4user]

To me I think of a 2 year old computer as old and 5+ as ancient. My iBook G4 is going to be my backup system in a few months when I get the money for a macbook pro or mac pro . My iBook G4 14" 1.33GHz I got about 7 months ago but it was a special deal I got so the model is 2 years old. So that means it's time for an upgrade. I think that 2 years is old because I run faster and faster software and OSes so it feels old. And I try to be on the bleeding edge of technology .

 

[mishi]

3-5 years

I say 3 years is old for a laptop and 5 years is old for a desktop

 

[d wade]

You can never be too old to have a computer!

haha! i love play on words