How the EU allow Apple to get away with this?

[((=]

Commission welcomes new EU standards for common mobile phone charger

Following a mandate from the European Commission, the European Standardisation Bodies CEN-CENELEC and ETSI have now made available the harmonised standards needed for the manufacture of data-enabled mobile phones compatible with a new common charger. This is the most recent development in the process towards a global common mobile phone charger initiated by the European Commission. It follows the June 2009 agreement of fourteen leading mobile phone producers to harmonise chargers for data-enabled mobile phones (i.e. that can be connected to a computer) sold in the European Union.

European Commission Vice-President Antonio Tajani, Commissioner for Industry and Entrepreneurship, said: “I am very happy that the European Standardisation Bodies have met our request to develop within a short space of time the technical standards necessary for a common mobile phone charger based on the work done by industry. Now it is time for industry to show its commitment to sell mobile phones for the new charger. The common charger will make life easier for consumers, reduce waste and benefit businesses. It is a true win-win situation.”

Incompatibility of chargers for mobile phones is not only a major inconvenience for users, but also a considerable environmental problem. Users who want to change their mobile phones must usually acquire a new charger and dispose of the old one, even if it is in good condition. In response to citizens’ demand for a common charger, the Commission invited manufacturers to agree on a technical solution making compatible the chargers of different brands.

As a result, world leading mobile phone producers committed themselves to ensure compatibility of data-enabled mobile phones, expected to be predominant in the market within two years, on the basis of the Micro-USB connector. The agreement was established in June 2009 and signed by Apple, Emblaze Mobile, Huawei Technologies, LGE, Motorola Mobility, NEC, Nokia, Qualcomm, Research In Motion (RIM), Samsung, Sony Ericsson, TCT Mobile (ALCATEL), Texas Instruments and Atmel (IP/09/1049).

The Commission then issued a mandate to the European Standardisation Organisations CEN-CENELEC and ETSI in December 2009, requesting the development of European standards for the common charger. The two organisations have now delivered. The standards allow for interoperability, i.e. the common charger is compatible with data-enabled mobile telephones of different brands. They also take account of safety risks and electro-magnetic emissions and ensure that common chargers have sufficient immunity to external interference.

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They should give the adapter free with EU devices IMO...

 

[zhenya]

USB can support the same things as the lightning cable. It is USB for Christ's sake. How many different types of devices use USB with all sorts of special functions? A **** ton. So the arguments about it only being for power and not being able to do special things is pure bull.

With that said - I couldn't care less what Apple uses. Lots of devices use special cables. Nothing new.

No it can't.

USB devices rely on a host controller. It's part of the baked-in standard. What that means is that a USB device like a phone requires the host to have a built in controller chip and driver support for that specific device. This means the host has to effectively have a computer chip inside, which adds significant expense. The genius of Apple's dock connector is that it allows for driverless control by the host device. This and this alone are why there are literally thousands of cheap clock radios for idevices, and virtually none for Android (and those require use of the headphone jack).

You and BIGAW shouldn't bitch about things you don't understand.

 

[BiggAW]

I think the warranty thing is even worse. A lot of countries state any selling product company MUST offer a two year warranty and Apples keeps giving one like if they could do whatever they wanted. Well... Apparently they can as no one seems to tell them anything...

It's good to protect consumers by forcing companies to stand behind their products. I got royally screwed over on a Palm that broke after like 95 days of use. It had a 90 day warranty in the US, because they didn't stand behind their product. In the EU it had a 2 year warranty, and I would have gotten a new one free of charge there.

Lightning is a connector designed to meet the demands of products designed ten years from now. MHL was designed to solve one specific problem that exists today: do video with a low pin-count plug (MHL does not actually specify a plug, so you're going to see incompatible MHL implementations*) so manufacturers can either multiplex an existing port (like Micro-USB) or can at least avoid having to add a regular and costly (micro)-HDMI port to their products. I guarantee you it will not be around even five years from now. Lightning will. The 30-pin connector did the same back in 2003 and it lasted 9 years.

So what? They could have made some bizarre proprietary connection that uses a micro-USB cable, and senses when it's plugged into a regular USB port, and then has some other signaling when plugged into a mate for it's own weird protocol. Or they could have put Lightning AND Micro-USB on the device, and then let Lightning be dead from day 1, since everyone would have a better alternative, instead of forcing people to use Lightning.

Although with LTE and the bigger screen and iOS, everyone might need a Mophie anyways, and those have the industry standard micro-USB, so it might all be a moot point...

 

[CyBeRino]

So what? They could have made some bizarre proprietary connection that uses a micro-USB cable, and senses when it's plugged into a regular USB port, and then has some other signaling when plugged into a mate for it's own weird protocol. Or they could have put Lightning AND Micro-USB on the device, and then let Lightning be dead from day 1, since everyone would have a better alternative, instead of forcing people to use Lightning.

I think that'd be fun because instead you'd see everyone use Lightning instead, because it is better than micro-usb. It being better than micro-usb is its sole reason for existing; if micro-usb did everything apple wanted, they wouldn't have spent so much time and effort developing lightning. (And they spent a lot of time and effort on that.)

Anyway the reason they don't do that first thing is first and foremost a lack of pins, as I've explained already. Micro-USB only has five. I suppose if you're using a proprietary signalling scheme then it doesn't much matter what you use them for, except you need a ground (technical necessity) so you can only use four in reality. Micro-USB isn't going to last ten years. The second is that it's just not durable enough. Compare a micro-USB cable, a 30-pin cable and a lightning cable and their associated ports, and then from how they are designed, try to figure out which one will break first. Hint: it isn't lightning. In terms of hardware design, lightning is incredibly elegantly done.

 

[dasx]

It's good to protect consumers by forcing companies to stand behind their products. I got royally screwed over on a Palm that broke after like 95 days of use. It had a 90 day warranty in the US, because they didn't stand behind their product. In the EU it had a 2 year warranty, and I would have gotten a new one free of charge there.

Exactly. As a customer it's pretty f-cked up:
You buy an iPhone. You check the law and it says you have a right that states that companies must give you a 2 year warranty. Apple gives you 1. If you want what a right gives you, you gotta pay. Disgusting tbh. But... We all keep buying their products so it's kind of our fault too...

BUT. There are also stores that sell iPhones and are not official Apple Stores. (Such as Best Buy there in the US). If you buy an iPhone to them, and it breaks after a year and a half, you can go to the store and demand either a repair or a new phone. They got their centrals here, so you can much more easily sue them to the Customer Protector (just made a literal translation, dunno how it's called over there) so they don't have a choice but comply.

 

[BiggAW]

I think that'd be fun because instead you'd see everyone use Lightning instead, because it is better than micro-usb. It being better than micro-usb is its sole reason for existing; if micro-usb did everything apple wanted, they wouldn't have spent so much time and effort developing lightning. (And they spent a lot of time and effort on that.)

Anyway the reason they don't do that first thing is first and foremost a lack of pins, as I've explained already. Micro-USB only has five. I suppose if you're using a proprietary signalling scheme then it doesn't much matter what you use them for, except you need a ground (technical necessity) so you can only use four in reality. Micro-USB isn't going to last ten years. The second is that it's just not durable enough. Compare a micro-USB cable, a 30-pin cable and a lightning cable and their associated ports, and then from how they are designed, try to figure out which one will break first. Hint: it isn't lightning. In terms of hardware design, lightning is incredibly elegantly done.

Just because some engineer figured out the thing will last longer or has some other electrical/computer advantage doesn't mean that it has an advantage in the real work. The proven standard that has been proven to work OVER AND OVER is the best.

 

[ThisIsNotMe]

The better question is how the voters in the EU allow the EU to get away with innovation killing mandates telling tech companies what features a product can/cannot have.

 

[CyBeRino]

Just because some engineer figured out the thing will last longer or has some other electrical/computer advantage doesn't mean that it has an advantage in the real work. The proven standard that has been proven to work OVER AND OVER is the best.

It's mostly just been proven to break over and over again. I want the best product. Not the most-used product. That product tends to be inferior because it's the cheapest product.



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Exactly. As a customer it's pretty f-cked up:
You buy an iPhone. You check the law and it says you have a right that states that companies must give you a 2 year warranty. Apple gives you 1.

*BEEP* wrong.

Apple complies with every law relevant to them.

This "one year" thing is the manufacturer warranty. This "two year" thing you speak of is the seller's warranty.

If Apple sold you the device directly, they will give you the two-year warranty. If someone else, for instance a telco or a store that isn't the Apple Store, sold it to you, they will still give you a one-year warranty even though there is no requirement to do so.

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The better question is how the voters in the EU allow the EU to get away with innovation killing mandates telling tech companies what features a product can/cannot have.

Except there is no such mandate. It is an agreement between manufacturers that they offer a way for their phones to be charged using a micro-usb cable.

This agreement came to be because the European Commission wanted to reduce costs for consumers by allowing them to use the same adapters for multiple devices, and at the same time prevent a bit of pollution by the same.

But again this is entirely an agreement between the manufacturers. There is no regulation, and if any of these companies want to make a phone that only takes firewire, no one is going to stop them. Apple complies with this agreement with their micro-usb to 30-pin adapter and with the micro-usb to lightning adapter.

 

[zhenya]

Just because some engineer figured out the thing will last longer or has some other electrical/computer advantage doesn't mean that it has an advantage in the real work. The proven standard that has been proven to work OVER AND OVER is the best.

It's far from the best.

Why is there virtually no market for Android accessories despite having more overall market share? It's because there is no standard in place that makes it feasible.

 

[teejaysyke]

Just because some engineer figured out the thing will last longer or has some other electrical/computer advantage doesn't mean that it has an advantage in the real work. The proven standard that has been proven to work OVER AND OVER is the best.

Better return your Macbook, because Windows was the standard a long time ago

Also, how is lightning a POS because you can't buy them and they're expensive? That has nothing to do with the quality of the product. Also, there's this weird little thing about cables. They are easily portable, you can put them in your pocket and take them EVERYWHERE YOU WANT. Shocking I know.

 

[BiggAW]

Better return your Macbook, because Windows was the standard a long time ago

Also, how is lightning a POS because you can't buy them and they're expensive? That has nothing to do with the quality of the product. Also, there's this weird little thing about cables. They are easily portable, you can put them in your pocket and take them EVERYWHERE YOU WANT. Shocking I know.

They are a POS because they are another stupid proprietary connector that no one asked for.

 

[teejaysyke]

They are a POS because they are another stupid proprietary connector that no one asked for.

Once again, that has nothing to do with the quality of the item. Just your opinion, which I must say, is pretty dumb.

 

[darster]

I find it more disturbing that the EU sticks their nose so deep into a private enterprise that they can dictate micro usb. Really? Is that what people want government to do? Are people so helpless in Europe that they need government to order companies to include micro usb?

 

[forty2j]

Something no one's mentioned yet is that Apple will use the same connector across all iOS devices, and Micro-USB simply isn't capable of providing the power needed to charge an iPad.

I like the Lightning connector. It's strong, and I don't have to turn it over 5 times to get it in right like I did the 30 pin or anything I have that uses Micro-USB. I also really don't get the argument... the device comes with the cable it needs. More are for sale. At no point have I ever said, "Gee, since my Nook takes Micro-USB, instead of using my Nook charger tonight, I'll use my old Blackjack charger!"

 

[BiggAW]

Once again, that has nothing to do with the quality of the item. Just your opinion, which I must say, is pretty dumb.

It affects the usefulness of the item due to a lack of interoperability with existing standards or de-facto standards (like 30-pin).

I find it more disturbing that the EU sticks their nose so deep into a private enterprise that they can dictate micro usb. Really? Is that what people want government to do? Are people so helpless in Europe that they need government to order companies to include micro usb?

It's called consumer protection. Our [US] government doesn't really know what it is, because they are owned by the big corporate interests.

 

[CyBeRino]

It affects the usefulness of the item due to a lack of interoperability with existing standards or de-facto standards (like 30-pin).

Lightning is the new de-facto standard.

In ten years you're going to make this tread again and complain how lightning was great because so many devices had it, and that new thing is a proprietary POS and why can't they use nanousb, or whatever other usb is the flavour of the month then (because we all know it won't be micro-usb-- that'll be long gone.)

 

[jeffg819]

It affects the usefulness of the item due to a lack of interoperability with existing standards or de-facto standards (like 30-pin).



It's called consumer protection. Our [US] government doesn't really know what it is, because they are owned by the big corporate interests.

Lowest common denominator thinking at its finest. In case you've not noticed this about Apple, they don't tend to stick to tried and true. They have this silly notion of 'better' being a good strategy. Don't like the new connector, don't buy it. But don't even think about making that choice for me.

 

[FieldingMellish]

Because the EU is bankrupt and they need the VAT from Apple sales more than Apple needs the EU?

So cold, but true.

 

[Minhimalism]

Wow everyone is so angry. Just wanted to say that adapter looks so much better than the stupid traditional -> lightning one.

 

[throAU]

SCSI and USB were both STANDARDS.

Lol.

SCSI, wide scsi, fast scsi, fast wide scsi, ultra scsi, serial attached scsi?


USB1? USB2? USB3?

USB A?
USB B?
Mini USB A?
Micro USB?


Maybe we should mandate that all cars should be 4 cylinder and run on diesel. They all need to be yellow, because that is visible on the road best.



If people don't like lightning, or whatever - DON'T BUY IT.

I for one am glad apple have the balls to release lightning which finally gets such a simple thing - reversable plug orientation - correct.

 

[BiggAW]

Lightning is the new de-facto standard.

In ten years you're going to make this tread again and complain how lightning was great because so many devices had it, and that new thing is a proprietary POS and why can't they use nanousb, or whatever other usb is the flavour of the month then (because we all know it won't be micro-usb-- that'll be long gone.)

It won't be if Apple doesn't let other companies make cables. For example, my car charger is a coiled dock connector- will Apple ever let anyone make one of those?

I don't want to buy into a system I don't already have, unless it is an industry standard. I had tons of dock connectors before the iPhone because of iPod. Now this is just BS.

I definitely won't buy anything with Lightning until cheap third-party cables are available. Looks like a few weeks for that given how fast the Chinese are hacking them!

 

[B's iPhone]

I definitely won't buy anything with Lightning until cheap third-party cables are available. Looks like a few weeks for that given how fast the Chinese are hacking them!

Fair enough. Any chance you'll stop complaining now?
It's an EU agreement, Apple is an American company.

 

[CyBeRino]

It won't be if Apple doesn't let other companies make cables. For example, my car charger is a coiled dock connector- will Apple ever let anyone make one of those?

Yes, why wouldn't they?

 

[BiggAW]

Yes, why wouldn't they?

They aren't right now. It's a money grab. If they had used micro-USB, they would have very limited power to sell cables when Monoprice is selling them for $1.50. A proprietary interface with no chip would have been produced within days in China and air freighted to the US, so they resorted to playing dirty and using active chips in their cables. That, in an of itself, is another reason to hate the cables, just like Thunderbolt... cables should have not have active chips in them.

 

[r.j.s]

Since this is going in circles: closed.