I'm a sucker for these old videos...but it is fascinating to remember how you could easily browse the web with no compromises on a G3 iBook less than 10 years ago - and a web that didn't look that much different from what we have now....
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How Things Used To Be...
- Thread starter Dronecatcher
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It's a conspiracy. The W3C must be deeply invested in Apple.
Ha ha
And don't get me started on the average web page in 2017 is larger than a full install of Doom running on DOS....
Ha ha
How many times can we get sucked into the endless loops of "10 best things...", "5 reasons why...", "you won't believe how...".
Web devs have felt it necessary to bloat general purpose websites with every possible revenue making, Social media and advertising technique they can code in with no regard for allowing a viewer to "stay on track".
I blame FaceBook for ruining the basic website by creating a user expectation of acceptable feature bloat.
We need a web revolution. Go back to basics. Stop modeling websites as visitor traps.
It's amazing how decent-looking web design that was possible with really basic CSS that didn't take tons of data, and ridiculous amounts or processing power.
Very few modern web developers seem to understand that. Hell, and old massively Flash-laden website that we made fun of and scoffed at would load just fine on those, compared to a supposedly simpler-looking modern website.
Remember, a mere 10 years ago, the *full desktop* version of the Wall Street journal website loaded speedily on an original iPhone! The website itself *LOOKS* nearly the same now, but barely loads on a Core Duo running Snow Leopard.
Very few modern web developers seem to understand that. Hell, and old massively Flash-laden website that we made fun of and scoffed at would load just fine on those, compared to a supposedly simpler-looking modern website.
Remember, a mere 10 years ago, the *full desktop* version of the Wall Street journal website loaded speedily on an original iPhone! The website itself *LOOKS* nearly the same now, but barely loads on a Core Duo running Snow Leopard.
Totally agree, and regarding a web revolution I suggest "bring back the guillotine" at least for those French web developers.
I used to check what was on at my local cinema here by logging on to their website. Was never a problem with a G3 or G4 ppc. It's virtually unreadable now, unless I log on with an Intel Mac, and even then due to all the flash nonsense and other garbage being thrown on screen it's a right pain in the derriere. Only a month ago I mentioned this to the cinema manager, and although he was a little sympathetic, then gave a nonchalant shrug of the shoulders, apologized and said I wasn't the first to complain.
I'm convinced it will get worse rather than improve for us, unless we revolt. Now where did I put that halberd......
I don't think there'll be any stopping now.
More demanding web design>hardware upgrade>more advanced developer tools>more demanding web design....
I remember maybe 12 years ago, the chairman of the company I worked for asked me to look over our new web site before the developers finished it off and it went live. It was Flash based and state of the art but I pointed out that many of our customers wouldn't have state of the art computers, might not have broadband and might be running lower resolutions that wouldn't render the site correctly. His response was the kind of customers that couldn't afford the lastest PCs, weren't the kind of customers he wanted - which I think is how all commercial operations view things.
More demanding web design>hardware upgrade>more advanced developer tools>more demanding web design....
I remember maybe 12 years ago, the chairman of the company I worked for asked me to look over our new web site before the developers finished it off and it went live. It was Flash based and state of the art but I pointed out that many of our customers wouldn't have state of the art computers, might not have broadband and might be running lower resolutions that wouldn't render the site correctly. His response was the kind of customers that couldn't afford the lastest PCs, weren't the kind of customers he wanted - which I think is how all commercial operations view things.
Just had to throw my agreement in with what many have said about the modern web. It's getting out of hand. Im not a luddite but when I'm attempting to read an article and it keeps shifting due to pop up ads, redraws, videos which automatically play, etc. it really becomes annoying. Perhaps if there were some real improvements but you hit the nail squarely on the head with this statement:
"and a web that didn't look that much different from what we have now...."
"and a web that didn't look that much different from what we have now...."
I had one of those ibook G3's 800mhz, and I remember the day in 2009 it suddenly stopped being able to handle even basic web pages. I upgraded to an ibook G4 but that only worked for a couple years....
Our society has moved to a planned obsolescence model for most consumer products. Buy it, use it, throw it away, buy something new. This community is one of the few (Puppy and Peppermint Linux also comes to mind) that fights against the planned obsolescence of computing devices. It's a losing battle but at least someone is doing it.
I like the concept of the eoma68 on Crowd Supply, its fully funded but whether or not it ever comes to production is another matter. Keep the screen, keyboard and case of the laptop and update the card and your done. It's probably too logical, too sensible, too environmentally conscious to ever see the light of day.
https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop
Our society has moved to a planned obsolescence model for most consumer products. Buy it, use it, throw it away, buy something new. This community is one of the few (Puppy and Peppermint Linux also comes to mind) that fights against the planned obsolescence of computing devices. It's a losing battle but at least someone is doing it.
I like the concept of the eoma68 on Crowd Supply, its fully funded but whether or not it ever comes to production is another matter. Keep the screen, keyboard and case of the laptop and update the card and your done. It's probably too logical, too sensible, too environmentally conscious to ever see the light of day.
https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop
That was painful to watch. Everything was so simple and easy.
...Why can't we have the old web back...
(Those were some nice keyboard sounds, though.
)
As many of you know, my profession is Graphic Design. Having worn that hat himself, @Dronecatcher can probably second what I write here now.
I think that designers have become lazy and it's the overwhelming computing power of newer and faster machines that have allowed this.
Designers and coders don't have to take care any more because raw CPU power will make up for it. It's pretty much the same across all aspects of design now. Software, fast processors, etc mean you don't have to pay attention to what format, style or method you design something in. Of course there are variations between industries, but essentially it works out.
This has allowed a generation of designers and coders that don't need to have the fundamentals and can focus simply on visual or UI design. And the basics and the knowledge slowly dies off because it's not being passed on.
And as Dronecatcher has also noted, corporate generally doesn't care. All they want is $$$.
I take professional pride in what I deliver to our printer each week, not solely from the design perspective but from the fact that my PDFs are professionally created within industry norms.
Unfortunately, this does not seem to be anything that's being taught any more with respect to web design.
I think that designers have become lazy and it's the overwhelming computing power of newer and faster machines that have allowed this.
Designers and coders don't have to take care any more because raw CPU power will make up for it. It's pretty much the same across all aspects of design now. Software, fast processors, etc mean you don't have to pay attention to what format, style or method you design something in. Of course there are variations between industries, but essentially it works out.
This has allowed a generation of designers and coders that don't need to have the fundamentals and can focus simply on visual or UI design. And the basics and the knowledge slowly dies off because it's not being passed on.
And as Dronecatcher has also noted, corporate generally doesn't care. All they want is $$$.
I take professional pride in what I deliver to our printer each week, not solely from the design perspective but from the fact that my PDFs are professionally created within industry norms.
Unfortunately, this does not seem to be anything that's being taught any more with respect to web design.
Totally. I've personally witnessed superficial, on trend fluff being produced by self styled designers who haven't got a clue - they copy, repackage and sell it with attitude - any craftsmanship that is required afterwards gets outsourced.
I've also encountered design houses who will not lift a finger to help anyone who isn't on their platform or software version and are blind to fundamentals that new software features hold your hand through.
I got a Photoshop PDF once and I needed embedded fonts.
With later versions of PS it's a guessing game of embedding fonts by determining which kind of PDF you are exporting. With PS7, which I was using at the time there is a setting for it.
The owner of the design shop that had created this PDF went ballistic because to him he was providing a correct and camera ready PDF. Enraged he handed me off to one of his other designers.
She knew what I was talking about and managed to get me a correct PDF with embedded fonts.
My point in bringing this up is that the very people that should know better (owners of design firms) don't. This guy had no f*ing clue and he owns a design firm!
On the bright side...after a lot of dedication from determined enthusiasts and community knowledge banks like this one, we can now browse the web on a G3 if we wanted to with hacks and tools that weren't there 10 years ago. There's a lot we can do now because of this enforced obsolescence - as I've said before, I've had more fun getting my retro computers to do stuff than I ever did when I was throwing money at state of the art hardware years ago
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Yep, it's all familiar territory - those further down the food chain are actually doing the work and know what's what.
[doublepost=1504986355][/doublepost]
Yep, it's all familiar territory - those further down the food chain are actually doing the work and know what's what.
And ironically, I just found an archive of when I created a commercial website for a company I was working for.
I wasn't a "web designer" (that wasn't even a "profession" yet,) wasn't even a graphic designer. I was just a data entry clerk who happened to have a deeper interest in computers (company only had one IT guy, and he managed "the mainframe" and serial terminals. The few Windows PCs were the purview of the individual employees who needed them for their jobs.)
We had a graphic designer, who knew nearly nothing about the web, and barely anything about computers at all.
So I wrote that first website. In Notepad. With pictures either from clipart libraries, scanned versions of what our graphic designer had made for print, and a few I or the graphic designer made in CorelDraw.
Here it is, from a few years after I had left, barely changed. (I made a few updates over the years on a contract basis, having left the company in '96.) Company had just been bought at the time of that update, and was folded in to the new parent company a few years later. Original office closed, almost all people let go within a few more years.
(Link is to the latest Internet Archive version of it, the archive I found is from my very original version of it.)
I wasn't a "web designer" (that wasn't even a "profession" yet,) wasn't even a graphic designer. I was just a data entry clerk who happened to have a deeper interest in computers (company only had one IT guy, and he managed "the mainframe" and serial terminals. The few Windows PCs were the purview of the individual employees who needed them for their jobs.)
We had a graphic designer, who knew nearly nothing about the web, and barely anything about computers at all.
So I wrote that first website. In Notepad. With pictures either from clipart libraries, scanned versions of what our graphic designer had made for print, and a few I or the graphic designer made in CorelDraw.
Here it is, from a few years after I had left, barely changed. (I made a few updates over the years on a contract basis, having left the company in '96.) Company had just been bought at the time of that update, and was folded in to the new parent company a few years later. Original office closed, almost all people let go within a few more years.
(Link is to the latest Internet Archive version of it, the archive I found is from my very original version of it.)
Couple that with the fact that sites have to dedicate so much to adware crap. Without any kind of blocker, it'll slow down even a later system.
Sometime in the future, we'll move away from "OMG, I AM ON A WEBSITE!!!" and will have a the Internet's version of The Wizard of Oz. It'll be that point that the web will fix itself.
There's one website/blog(for lack of a better term) that I read regularly. It's straight out of the late '90s and early '2000s with paragraphs written on a plain yellow or white background. The only thing that has really changed over the years is that the imbedded images have mostly become larger(it's primarily a photography equipment review website, so that's to be expected), but there's nothing fancy in it.
One frequent criticism I see of the site from folks is how antiquated the site looks, but personally I love it. I can get right to the content I care about, with no flash or ads in my way(the website is ad-supported, but it's limited to simple links to Amazon, B&H, and Adorama).
One frequent criticism I see of the site from folks is how antiquated the site looks, but personally I love it. I can get right to the content I care about, with no flash or ads in my way(the website is ad-supported, but it's limited to simple links to Amazon, B&H, and Adorama).
I'll take antiquated looking and usable over modern looking and a hassle to use any day. The one thing that strikes fear in my heart when going to a web site: We've improved our website to make it functional and easier to use. Yeah, right!
Like the awful "improved" Youtube that has really hit single CPU G4s.
But this is the major problem today.
Not your viewpoint, I agree with you. But those who would take modern have the CPU power to deal with the hassle. Because of that, modern and hassle to use is acceptable to a greater majority of people. The end user isn't dealing with the hassle, their CPU is.
Ultimately, it makes it difficult for us PowerPC users because this becomes the accepted norm and over time the holdouts start dropping off.
Plus of course, it is possible to create websites that do look modern and presentable whilst running on low powered hardware - it's all the junk and silent data processing that generates the CPU load.
heres a website that is still frequently updated with new content but has not changed in design since its creation more or less http://www.countrybus.org/
(one of my other hobbies is Old London buses) the website will still render perfectly fine and quickly in IE5 or Omniweb
http://www.countrybus.org/(one of my other hobbies is Old London buses) the website will still render perfectly fine and quickly in IE5 or Omniweb
My first computer I used to really browse the internet was a PowerBook G3 (I think it was 400 MHz), running Panther, then Tiger later. I remember browsing pages fast and effortlessly. One thing that blows my mind to think about is that I used to play Runescape on that PowerBook, with all the bells and whistles, and now you can't play nearly any modern game on these old machines on the web, sadly.