How to best use Time Machine?

[Clonetrooper]

Excuse me, I've never used Time Machine before and I'm looking at my best storage options and set ups for a Mac mini. I'm thinking of either buying a DAC as I have a few spare hard drives kicking around and connect via usb c. Or similar price, buy another 2TB SSD and use that as a time machine back up.

I already have the other usb c port on the mini using a 2TB SSD which I use as my main storage.

So my questions are will time machine work the same with a DAC or SSD, wake from sleep to back up? Can I use Time Machine to back up both the internal Mini storage and the SSD with all my files on?

I can either buy a DAC for £150 and chuck in my spare HDDs x4 or another SSD for £200

 

[Reggaenald]

I don’t know about using a DAC, but in Time Machine Settings, you can select drives and volumes to back up, your 2TB main drive should be listed there, too.
I don’t think that you can use multiple drives via a DAC as “one” TM drive, but I never tried it.

 

[Clonetrooper]

So with a connected SSD or DAC does time machine wake a Mac up from sleep to back up?

 

[Reggaenald]

Uff, that I can’t really answer. I usually just connect my drive when I need something from a partition on it or want to make a backup, but I believe that it doesn’t wake the display and makes the backup discretely, like iCloud backups on iPhones.

 

[elvisimprsntr]

Most, if not all, consumer NAS appliances support TM.

Or install open source enterprise class NAS software from https://www.truenas.com on almost any x86 HW.

Just don't directly expose any NAS to the internet.

 

[Fishrrman]

(warning: Fishrrman's usual rant follows)

The "best use" of time machine is... don't use it AT ALL.

Instead, use either CarbonCopyCloner or SuperDuper.
Either of these will serve you much better in that "moment of extreme need".
Both are free to download and try out for 30 days.

 

[Clonetrooper]

(warning: Fishrrman's usual rant follows)

The "best use" of time machine is... don't use it AT ALL.

Instead, use either CarbonCopyCloner or SuperDuper.
Either of these will serve you much better in that "moment of extreme need".
Both are free to download and try out for 30 days.

Thanks all for the comments, on the above can you expand on that or a link where you elaborated further. I've not used Mac back up software before as a MacOS noob. Previously I used Acronis on PC and just forgot about it.

 

[gilby101]

Thanks all for the comments, on the above can you expand on that or a link where you elaborated further. I've not used Mac back up software before as a MacOS noob. Previously I used Acronis on PC and just forgot about it.

That was Fishrrman's usual rant (many of us know it by heart). It is just an invitation to fill up this thread with TM vs (CCC or SD) arguments. I don't think Fishrrman has used TM in recent times.

Time Machine does not require a high speed drive - a single suitable sized HDD (5 Gb/s USB) is cost effective for most of us. In terms of reliability, easy setup and easy disaster recovery a directly attached disk has advantages over network storage.

TM can backup all your directly attached disks (except for itself) - just size it to meet your needs. Avoid backing up highly volatile files (e.g. virtual machines) with TM.

I never use wake from sleep, but the Power Nap (in Energy Preferences) includes waking up sufficiently to do a TM backup.

 

[mwidjaya]

use either CarbonCopyCloner or SuperDuper.

Nah, the age of backup clones is over...

 

[DrCC]

I am still trying to understand what is the advantage of a 3rd party backup app like CarbonCopyCloner.

If your Mac completely crashes and you need to reinstall macOS, Time Machine can be used to transfer everything over once the Mac is operational again.

If your Mac breaks and you use a new one, Time Machine can also be used to bring the files back even if the recovery is not on the same Mac the backup was originally made on.

What would be a scenario when CarbonCopyCloner would be useful and Time Machine can't be used. I am not denying the usefulness of a 3rd party backup app, but I am trying to understand what am I am missing of all the disaster recovery scenarios that would make me use a 3rd party app instead of Time Machine.

P.S. I have used Windows for years and I hated the way backups were done, I was forced to use a 3rd party app (Macrium Reflect). For a non-techie person a Windows failure would be a disaster and even restoring files needed quiet of bit of tech knowledge, Time Machine seems so effortless in comparison.

 

[gilby101]

but I am trying to understand what am I am missing of all the disaster recovery scenarios that would make me use a 3rd party app instead of Time Machine.

Fast continuing operation in the event that the internal boot disk fails suddenly.

Up to the last few years, you could use CCC/PD to create a clone (on an external SSD) of your boot disk. This allows you to boot from the clone in the event that your boot disk hardware fails suddenly. So get up and running in a few minutes. Of course, you would need future downtime to repair the Mac and to clone back from the external to a replacement internal SSD.

In the above I deliberately say fails suddenly. A more gradual failure is likely to lead to a corrupt clone - which is not much use.

Apart from Apple making this difficult (e.g. M1 Macs require the internal disk for booting), the benefit is moot now that internal SSDs are highly reliable and other things are more likely to break.

IMHO those that need such fast recovery are better served by having standby Macs available. This mitigates all sorts of hardware and software failures.

 

[cynics]

I am still trying to understand what is the advantage of a 3rd party backup app like CarbonCopyCloner.

If your Mac completely crashes and you need to reinstall macOS, Time Machine can be used to transfer everything over once the Mac is operational again.

If your Mac breaks and you use a new one, Time Machine can also be used to bring the files back even if the recovery is not on the same Mac the backup was originally made on.

What would be a scenario when CarbonCopyCloner would be useful and Time Machine can't be used. I am not denying the usefulness of a 3rd party backup app, but I am trying to understand what am I am missing of all the disaster recovery scenarios that would make me use a 3rd party app instead of Time Machine.

P.S. I have used Windows for years and I hated the way backups were done, I was forced to use a 3rd party app (Macrium Reflect). For a non-techie person a Windows failure would be a disaster and even restoring files needed quiet of bit of tech knowledge, Time Machine seems so effortless in comparison.

People get pretty emotional about this subject because one or the other let them down which would be incredibly frustrating.

I guess this might not be 'allowed' and its going to sound insane but.... I use both. I know I know I hate myself for it.

TM specifically on a NAS. And while no where near as up to date I have a CCC backup I could use in the event Time Machine fails me. And with iCloud+ I have most everything backed up there too. I actually just wanted to make sure everyone hated me because I'm using a backup method they hate.

Overall I do prefer Time Machine though, mostly because of the ease of dipping into it and grabbing a file you deleted a few weeks ago. Or remember something 6 months later and recovering a file. Its no harder then just going into finder and right click and recover.

And if you restore from Time Machine you can pick specific things. Makes SSD/Mac/Whatever replacements fairly painless.

I would recommend TM, its already on the Mac and free and you can always try CCC later. Its not like data can't be copied more than once.

 

[Clonetrooper]

Sorry for the bump but I've finally purchased the drives to get this up and running.

I have my Mac mini internal drive backing up to an external SSD just for time machine.

I also have another external drive with all my photo's and years of data on. Yet I don't seem to be able to select this to back up to the Time Machine drive. It's greyed out. Is this something to do with the file format I have the drive in? I have it in a FAT format so I could use it between PC and MAC if I needed to. Does that mean I cannot use Time Machine to back it up?

Any options around this?

 

[gilby101]

I would not want to use FAT for something important (like your photos) - it is not very robust. Better to use either a) NTFS, backup on Windows, use Paragon to read/write on the Mac, b) use APFS, backup with TM, use network share for read/write on Windows.

 

[Clonetrooper]

I would not want to use FAT for something important (like your photos) - it is not very robust. Better to use either a) NTFS, backup on Windows, use Paragon to read/write on the Mac, b) use APFS, backup with TM, use network share for read/write on Windows.

Ah ok, so even if I used Paragon on the MAC that still wouldn't help me. I couldn't use time machine to back up the drive and then move it to the PC. I might be better to convert my External MAC drive to APFS and then use time machine to back up those photo's etc to the time machine drive. If I ever need to move the files to PC just pull them off the onedrive back up.

Or put software on the PC to read the APFS files, might be better I suppose?

 

[gilby101]

If the Mac is your primary machine, use APFS and backup with Time Machine. When you need photos on the PC, either as you say share via Onedrive (or similar cloud sync service) or use https://www.paragon-software.com/home/apfs-windows/ if you want to physically connect the disk to Windows or a network share.

 

[Madhatter32]

Ah ok, so even if I used Paragon on the MAC that still wouldn't help me. I couldn't use time machine to back up the drive and then move it to the PC. I might be better to convert my External MAC drive to APFS and then use time machine to back up those photo's etc to the time machine drive. If I ever need to move the files to PC just pull them off the onedrive back up.

Or put software on the PC to read the APFS files, might be better I suppose?

My practice is to use one external for TM and another for CCC. Redundancy is key in data recovery. An external SSD is best formated as APFS. I think MacOS extended journal is best for hard drives still. I think you can transfer files using an intermediary like a FAT flash drive if necessary to get on PC.

 

[Clonetrooper]

So I've started using time machine on the back up external SSD2. I noticed it set it up as APFS case sensitive. I don't remember selecting case sensitive.

I now want to change the other external SSD1 from FAT system to APFS to back the pictures onto SSD2 using time machine. Do I have to format that as case sensitive too or just APFS?

 

[gilby101]

I noticed it set it up as APFS case sensitive.

Time Machine does this when it reformats the volume you have selected.

Do I have to format that as case sensitive too or just APFS?

Just create a new volume formatted APFS. Time Machine does the rest.

Depending on your risk profile, it is generally good to tell TM to encrypt the volume. If you want to do this just create an unencrypted APFS volume and let TM initiate the encryption when you select the volume for TM.