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HomeKit How to change primary Home Hub?

GIZBUG

GIZBUG

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Oct 28, 2006
2,459
1,625
Chicago, IL
I have 3 Home Hubs; Kitchen HomePod, Main Apple TV, Upstairs Apple TV.

Currently the HomePod is connected, and the Main Apple TV is standby, and I disabled the upstairs Apple Tv.

How do I make the Main Apple TV primary (connected) and the Kitchen HomePod on standby? This is for range issues with some devices.
 
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Has this continued to keep the one Apple TV as the hub? I just tried putting in a yale smart lock on my detached garage door and as soon as I had it installed realized it was bluetooth and therefore will not have the range necessary. I have an "extra" Apple TV that I can put in the garage and potentially run cat6 cable to it. Dont want to start that project if its not going to help the issue though. Kinda dumb you can't specify which device you want to use as the hub permanently.
 
It's probably mentioned in the above link but...

"Connected" hub is the hub with the best reception and performance to the router if the router based on algorithm baked into HomeKit. If the difference in reception and performance to the network between a "Connected" hub and non "Connected" hub (standby) is marginal they won't switch. However if its performance difference substantial (and meets HomeKits requirements) the "Connected" hub will switch.

So for example if you have an AppleTV with a wireless connection has throughput of 800mb/s with RSSI -40 and a HomePod has a throughput of 800mb/s with an RSSI of -50. They probably won't switch because both are excellent. However if you have a "Connected" home with a throughput of 400mb/s and plug in an AppleTV right next to router and its 800mb/s with RSSI -20 they will almost certainly switch automatically.

"Standby" hubs are acting as repeaters to communicate with devices in close proximity (bluetooth). This makes them effectively network extenders.

For example, with my front door lock which is bluetooth it doesn't work reliably when I disconnect the HomePod that is closest too it. That HomePod is always in standby due to its range from the router.

"Standby" hubs are in standby because they will become "Connected" if something causes the "Connected" hub to disconnect or throughput and reception become very poor.

The exception in my experience is the iPad, I can't force that to become the connected device with other hubs plugged in, presumably due to conversing battery as much as possible.

I made a video of my Home Hubs switching the connected around after I disconnect the connected HomePod Right from the network and then reconnect it. First it goes to the AppleTV 4k, then to the AppleTV then puts everything in standby than switches to the HomePod Left and stays that way. It will likely be using the HomePod Right later on as it seems that has the best connection to the router.

 
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cynics said:
It's probably mentioned in the above link but...

"Connected" hub is the hub with the best reception and performance to the router if the router based on algorithm baked into HomeKit. If the difference in reception and performance to the network between a "Connected" hub and non "Connected" hub (standby) is marginal they won't switch. However if its performance difference substantial (and meets HomeKits requirements) the "Connected" hub will switch.

So for example if you have an AppleTV with a wireless connection has throughput of 800mb/s with RSSI -40 and a HomePod has a throughput of 800mb/s with an RSSI of -50. They probably won't switch because both are excellent. However if you have a "Connected" home with a throughput of 400mb/s and plug in an AppleTV right next to router and its 800mb/s with RSSI -20 they will almost certainly switch automatically.

"Standby" hubs are acting as repeaters to communicate with devices in close proximity (bluetooth). This makes them effectively network extenders.

For example, with my front door lock which is bluetooth it doesn't work reliably when I disconnect the HomePod that is closest too it. That HomePod is always in standby due to its range from the router.

"Standby" hubs are in standby because they will become "Connected" if something causes the "Connected" hub to disconnect or throughput and reception become very poor.

The exception in my experience is the iPad, I can't force that to become the connected device with other hubs plugged in, presumably due to conversing battery as much as possible.

I made a video of my Home Hubs switching the connected around after I disconnect the connected HomePod Right from the network and then reconnect it. First it goes to the AppleTV 4k, then to the AppleTV then puts everything in standby than switches to the HomePod Left and stays that way. It will likely be using the HomePod Right later on as it seems that has the best connection to the router.

Click to expand...
Thanks for this post. Very informative but it seems to not work in my case. I have two ATV 4Ks and an Eero Pro Mesh network. One of the ATVs is hardwired to the Eero router which is hardwired to my FiOS modem with GB speed. The other Eero router is using a wireless backhaul and the ATV connected to that one is running wireless. For some reason, HomeKit always wants to use the Wireless ATV as the connected Hub. No way are they getting similar speeds.
 
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cynics said:
It's probably mentioned in the above link but...

"Connected" hub is the hub with the best reception and performance to the router if the router based on algorithm baked into HomeKit. If the difference in reception and performance to the network between a "Connected" hub and non "Connected" hub (standby) is marginal they won't switch. However if its performance difference substantial (and meets HomeKits requirements) the "Connected" hub will switch.

So for example if you have an AppleTV with a wireless connection has throughput of 800mb/s with RSSI -40 and a HomePod has a throughput of 800mb/s with an RSSI of -50. They probably won't switch because both are excellent. However if you have a "Connected" home with a throughput of 400mb/s and plug in an AppleTV right next to router and its 800mb/s with RSSI -20 they will almost certainly switch automatically.

"Standby" hubs are acting as repeaters to communicate with devices in close proximity (bluetooth). This makes them effectively network extenders.

For example, with my front door lock which is bluetooth it doesn't work reliably when I disconnect the HomePod that is closest too it. That HomePod is always in standby due to its range from the router.

"Standby" hubs are in standby because they will become "Connected" if something causes the "Connected" hub to disconnect or throughput and reception become very poor.

The exception in my experience is the iPad, I can't force that to become the connected device with other hubs plugged in, presumably due to conversing battery as much as possible.

I made a video of my Home Hubs switching the connected around after I disconnect the connected HomePod Right from the network and then reconnect it. First it goes to the AppleTV 4k, then to the AppleTV then puts everything in standby than switches to the HomePod Left and stays that way. It will likely be using the HomePod Right later on as it seems that has the best connection to the router.

Click to expand...
Thanks for this. Once this heat wave is over I'm gonna move my extra tv/Apple TV out to the garage to get that new lock working on HomeKit.

Wish they wouldn't even use this language for it. Just have them all read as connected and eliminate the confusion. Is seems to not even matter which one is actually 'Connected', so why not just make them all read as connected unless something is disconnected.
 
Itinj24 said:
Thanks for this post. Very informative but it seems to not work in my case. I have two ATV 4Ks and an Eero Pro Mesh network. One of the ATVs is hardwired to the Eero router which is hardwired to my FiOS modem with GB speed. The other Eero router is using a wireless backhaul and the ATV connected to that one is running wireless. For some reason, HomeKit always wants to use the Wireless ATV as the connected Hub. No way are they getting similar speeds.
Click to expand...

I was a bit vague and honestly I don't know the metrics and algorithms Apple uses for determining the connected Home Hub (HMHomeHubState). I have a couple guesses though....

Nearly all accessories are wifi or bluetooth (switches plugs lights etc) using Apples HomeKit Accessory Protocol (HAP) via a peer to peer connection. So when you are home your phone is communicating directly to the accessory, when you are away your Home Hub is communicating directly to the accessory. Using ethernet on an AppleTV disables wifi, so while it does work as a connected home hub (tested it real quick) it might not be a preferred metric due to delays in the transport.

Another metric might be connection strength to accessories from Home Hubs. So a Home Hub with an acceptable internet connection with better accessory communication may be preferred over raw speed to the internet.

Network speed may have a limit that once exceeded that metric isn't used for determining connected home hub.

Like I said though...guesses, I don't know for sure.

In the end it shouldn't matter as long as it's working.
 
cynics said:
It's probably mentioned in the above link but...

"Connected" hub is the hub with the best reception and performance to the router if the router based on algorithm baked into HomeKit. If the difference in reception and performance to the network between a "Connected" hub and non "Connected" hub (standby) is marginal they won't switch. However if its performance difference substantial (and meets HomeKits requirements) the "Connected" hub will switch.
Click to expand...

The problem for me seems to be that the algorithm does not prioritize Ethernet-connected AppleTVs over WiFi-connected HomePods. :(

I can get it to choose the AppleTV for a while if I disconnect my HomePods. But eventually it picks the HomePods again. And while I can choose to disable AppleTV as Home Hub, I cannot turn it off for my HomePods.

There's a noticeable response time difference when I try to unlock my August Smart Lock when a HomePod is the hub. It can sometimes take over 30s vs within ~5s. I don’t think it's just the WiFi vs Ethernet difference—my AppleTV is very close to the lock, while my HomePods are probably within Bluetooth range but maybe at the very edge of it.
[doublepost=1563727631][/doublepost]
cynics said:
Nearly all accessories are wifi or bluetooth (switches plugs lights etc) using Apples HomeKit Accessory Protocol (HAP) via a peer to peer connection. So when you are home your phone is communicating directly to the accessory, when you are away your Home Hub is communicating directly to the accessory. Using ethernet on an AppleTV disables wifi, so while it does work as a connected home hub (tested it real quick) it might not be a preferred metric due to delays in the transport.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure it's trying to use peer-to-peer WiFi when the devices have established infrastructure WiFi connections. I know it establishes end to end encrypted connections, but I would guess it would use whatever transport is available.

In my case, I don’t think any of my HomeKit devices are WiFi anyway. My August Lock is definitely Bluetooth. My Lutron Caseta and Philips Hue Hubs are connected only via Ethernet.
 
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So I just noticed some odd behavior and now that I think of it, it’s been doing it for a while...

Please reference my setup above

I have most of my sensors set to notify me only when nobody is home. This generally works as it should until I started getting a bunch of motion sensor notifications today while I was home. I checked my Hubs in the Home app and it switched itself to using the wireless ATV as the connected hub. I manually switched it back to where my hardwired ATV is the hub and boom, the notifications stopped. Would love to disable the wireless ATV as a hub but I kinda wanted it on standby as a backup. The hardwired definitely performs better, more noticeably with the Logitech Circle 2’s
 
gildorn said:
The problem for me seems to be that the algorithm does not prioritize Ethernet-connected AppleTVs over WiFi-connected HomePods. :(

I can get it to choose the AppleTV for a while if I disconnect my HomePods. But eventually it picks the HomePods again. And while I can choose to disable AppleTV as Home Hub, I cannot turn it off for my HomePods.

There's a noticeable response time difference when I try to unlock my August Smart Lock when a HomePod is the hub. It can sometimes take over 30s vs within ~5s. I don’t think it's just the WiFi vs Ethernet difference—my AppleTV is very close to the lock, while my HomePods are probably within Bluetooth range but maybe at the very edge of it.
[doublepost=1563727631][/doublepost]

I'm not sure it's trying to use peer-to-peer WiFi when the devices have established infrastructure WiFi connections. I know it establishes end to end encrypted connections, but I would guess it would use whatever transport is available.

In my case, I don’t think any of my HomeKit devices are WiFi anyway. My August Lock is definitely Bluetooth. My Lutron Caseta and Philips Hue Hubs are connected only via Ethernet.
Click to expand...

Sorry, peer to peer isn't the best term in its traditional sense. Apples HomeKit Accessory Protocol is running on top of the BT and Wifi network stacks.

Care to explain the exact circumstances and features you are using with the August lock? For example are you unlocking the as you walk up to it as your iPhone is just entering network range (aka not using the hubs)? You will see no "No Response" in the Home app if has a bad connection when you are away.

The August lock biggest complaint is its slow response time. However keep in mind its a battery device so it needs to wake up, establish connection, authenticate, etc etc. so there will be a slight delay.

Also A LOT of home automation issues are misdiagnosed due to the user having the their phone on them when diagnosing. So make sure if you test different variables your precisely simulating your routine or your phones bluetooth and wifi are off.

I would try unplugging the HomePod or moving it next to the lock for a week or so. Also check on it throughout the day in the Home app and see if it says "No Response" and if that state is temporary try timing it.
 
I wouldn’t usually care which device is the main hub, but using “hey Siri” recently seems to keep using the farthest HomePod mini in a corner of the apartment. So asking, “what’s my update” or “how’s the weather” results in a response I can’t hear because the farthest HomePod mini is responding and usually too quietly. Unplugging it and plugging it back in later seems to change the hub to a closer HomePod mini, but it switches back on its own sometimes? We also have an Apple TV 4K wired to the router (newest but discontinued Apple airport express) but it never gets picked as the hub for whatever reason.
 
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cynics said:
It's probably mentioned in the above link but...

"Connected" hub is the hub with the best reception and performance to the router if the router based on algorithm baked into HomeKit. If the difference in reception and performance to the network between a "Connected" hub and non "Connected" hub (standby) is marginal they won't switch. However if its performance difference substantial (and meets HomeKits requirements) the "Connected" hub will switch.

So for example if you have an AppleTV with a wireless connection has throughput of 800mb/s with RSSI -40 and a HomePod has a throughput of 800mb/s with an RSSI of -50. They probably won't switch because both are excellent. However if you have a "Connected" home with a throughput of 400mb/s and plug in an AppleTV right next to router and its 800mb/s with RSSI -20 they will almost certainly switch automatically.

"Standby" hubs are acting as repeaters to communicate with devices in close proximity (bluetooth). This makes them effectively network extenders.

For example, with my front door lock which is bluetooth it doesn't work reliably when I disconnect the HomePod that is closest too it. That HomePod is always in standby due to its range from the router.

"Standby" hubs are in standby because they will become "Connected" if something causes the "Connected" hub to disconnect or throughput and reception become very poor.

The exception in my experience is the iPad, I can't force that to become the connected device with other hubs plugged in, presumably due to conversing battery as much as possible.

I made a video of my Home Hubs switching the connected around after I disconnect the connected HomePod Right from the network and then reconnect it. First it goes to the AppleTV 4k, then to the AppleTV then puts everything in standby than switches to the HomePod Left and stays that way. It will likely be using the HomePod Right later on as it seems that has the best connection to the router.

Click to expand...
🤔, I don't think this always works as intended. My Classroom Apple TV (I teach high school) in another state, became my connected hub and totally broke my ability to use Siri to control anything when I was at home. I finally figured out my classroom Apple TV had somehow become my connected hub. When I unplugged it, one of the HomePod minis in my bedroom become my connected hub, even though my router is in the Living Room with an Apple TV 4K and two full size HomePods.
 
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kiehtan said:
🤔, I don't think this always works as intended. My Classroom Apple TV (I teach high school) in another state, became my connected hub and totally broke my ability to use Siri to control anything when I was at home. I finally figured out my classroom Apple TV had somehow become my connected hub. When I unplugged it, one of the HomePod minis in my bedroom become my connected hub, even though my router is in the Living Room with an Apple TV 4K and two full size HomePods.
Click to expand...
Wow that’s insanity how an Apple TV in another state would be your connected hub. I thought they had to be on the same Wi-Fi as your phone and everything else to act as the hub, like an iPad that has to stay home to be a hub. The good thing about the AppleTV though is that you have the ability to disconnect it from being a home hub. I also think you don’t even have to add it to HomeKit.
 
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I have a similar problem. My iPad, which stays with me, is the connected hub whenever it is turned on and logged into iCloud (which is always). Some accessories don't respond when the iPad is remote from the home. The AppleTV, which is always located in the home and stays on so that it can act as a hub, will only take over hub duties if I turn the iPad off. When the AppleTV is the connected hub, all accessories respond correctly. This problem has happened occasionally in the past, but I think that it is MUCH worse with iOS 15. Any ideas? Thanks
 
Just go to Settings—>Home on the iPad and turn off the home hub. There’s no reason to have more than one hub if it has a good network connection (preferably wired). Having multiple hubs is fine in theory but in practice just causes headaches. I’d only do it if, like above, I needed a Bluetooth device in a remote location.
 
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pup said:
Just go to Settings—>Home on the iPad and turn off the home hub. There’s no reason to have more than one hub if it has a good network connection (preferably wired). Having multiple hubs is fine in theory but in practice just causes headaches. I’d only do it if, like above, I needed a Bluetooth device in a remote location.
Click to expand...
That’s absolutely an issue and why Apple should let us disable the HomePod as a hub. If you have multiple HomePods, it causes headaches with random switching
 
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Itinj24 said:
Disable the HomePod as a Hub. The Apple TV should pick up the slack and connect. Then reconnect the HomePod and it should stay on standby from there.

I have two Apple TVs and one is hardwired to my router. I did the above to get the hardwired Apple TV to be the main Hub.
Click to expand...
I don’t see a way to do this in Home settings. Can you explain how to “Disable the Homepod as a Hub?”
 
Itinj24 said:
Disable the HomePod as a Hub. The Apple TV should pick up the slack and connect. Then reconnect the HomePod and it should stay on standby from there.

I have two Apple TVs and one is hardwired to my router. I did the above to get the hardwired Apple TV to be the main Hub.
Click to expand...
I'm fairly new to this, how do you disable the HomePod as a hub? Thanks.
 
Itinj24 said:
Oh my goodness I can’t believe I typed that. You can’t disable it. That was almost four years ago so I might’ve meant unplug it. My bad for the misunderstanding.
Click to expand...
LOL it's all good. I've been messing around as I do and as I restarted the Apple TV I wanted as the hub, I restarted it. I also, restarted the HomePod Mini and somehow that fixed my issue. Now I only have 5 devices that are "No Responses" as opposed to the 35 I had before posting. Thank you.
 
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