How to Install Bootcamp (Not a partition, just the acutal application itself!)

Discussion in 'Mac Apps and Mac App Store' started by ardesigns, Nov 6, 2008.

  1. ardesigns macrumors member

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    Mar 20, 2008
    #1
    Hi. I have a MacBook that came preinstalled with OS X Leopard. It seems stupid, but I have the 2 install discs that came with the computer, now how do I install bootcamp?!

    Thanks,
    ARDesigns
     
  2. Cromulent macrumors 603

    Cromulent

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    #2
    It is already installed. Just do a spotlight search for Bootcamp Assistant and it will run you through the process of installing Windows.
     
  3. sickmacdoc macrumors 68020

    sickmacdoc

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    New Hampshire
    #3
    As per the previous post, you don't install it since it is already there- it should be in your Utilities folder (within your Applications folder).

    Be sure to look through Apple's Boot Camp Support section before installing- and download and follow the Boot Camp Installation guide they have there to insure a smooth Windows installation process. It gives a lot more information than is provided in the Boot Camp Assistant application itself. You can find it all at Boot Camp Support.
     
  4. ardesigns thread starter macrumors member

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    Mar 20, 2008
    #4
    Thanks for the help! I found it, ran it, and it started partitioning my disk and I accidentally closed the lid of my MacBook. I was stupid enough to quit out the program and now it won't partition! What should I do? I have a 500GB hard drive that I could back up my files on, but time machine isn't working with it (it always says there's a problem, then I click ok, then it goes a little more, and it says it has another problem, etc.). Also, I'd rather not partition the external hard drive, as I don't really know how to install an OS on an external drive. Also, repairing both the disk and the disk permissions do nothing to solve the problem with partitioning my internal HDD.

    So, how do I fix this partitioning problem without wiping my entire internal disk and reinstalling OS X?

    Thanks,
    ARDesigns
     
  5. ardesigns thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    #5
    After looking over my options of defragmentation, I have decided that I may want to either partition my external HDD or backup my internal HDD and reinstall OS X. Which would you recommend? Also, if I partition my, can I remove the partition without having to reformat the entire hard drive?

    Thanks again,
    ARDesigns
     
  6. Enigmafan420 macrumors 6502a

    Enigmafan420

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    Location:
    Puget Sound, U.S.A.
    #6
    I actually have done both-I have an ministack that is partitioned approximately 470 GB for MAC OS and 30 GB for Windows.

    You can (ususally) change Mac Partition sizes without data loss-but not the windows partition. So, in my case, I could adjust the 470GB Mac side of the external without data loss, but if I mess with the windows part, I would loose my windows data.

    Also, not sure why you want to reinstall OS-X? Are you having problems with it?

    Hope this helps.
     
  7. ardesigns thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    #7
    Well I was told that to get rid of fragmented files I had to reinstall OS X...I'm not sure if that's right or not. I have also read that I need to erase the entire internal drive, but wouldn't that render it useless? Can anyone walk through how to do this with me? Also, I was told that I would need to back up my drive to keep my files after the erase, but if I restored the drive using that disk image, wouldn't the fragmented files come back?

    Also, when I plugged in my external hard drive (it's USB 2.0, with GUID Partition Table and Mac OS Extended (Journaled) Formatting), and open the Boot Camp Assistant, and press continue, it brings me right to the option of partitioning my internal hard drive, but there's no way to make it target my external hard drive. Any thoughts?

    Thanks,
    ARDesigns
     
  8. sickmacdoc macrumors 68020

    sickmacdoc

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    New Hampshire
    #8
    WARNING: Read the following only after a couple of cups of strong coffee to keep you awake! Sorry!

    OK, let's deal with the second question first (it's easier ;)). You cannot install Windows on an external drive because Windows is not designed to be booted from external drives- hence the BootCamp Assistant installer will not allow you to select your external drive as a valid destination. Boot Camp will only allow for internal drive selection- either your boot drive if a single drive system or any internal drive if you have multiple drives (as in Mac Pro).
    I'm sure there are probably ways to hack it to work from external drives but I will leave that to others to fill you in on. I just stick with the standard Apple supported BootCamp usage. ;)

    Now the first part- there is a little confusion apparently in your idea of what fragmented files are, so will try to make sense of it for you as I think you are confusing fragmented with the term corrupted.

    NOTE: This is a highly simplified version of fragmentation. Mac OSX has several internal routines to minimize the effect I am going to describe, but it does not apply those routines to files over a certain size (most commonly reported as 20MB) so they can get scattered as in the example below.

    When a file is written to the hard disk it is going to take up X number of sectors of the disk depending on its size. So, if you have three files (A, B and C and with x representing free sectors on your disk) that have been written to your disk one time they might appear like this on your disk:
    AAAABBBBBBCCCxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Now the problem with fragmentation comes in when, using this example, you do some work on file B and increase its size. To store the additional data in file B when you resave it to disk, the OS looks for the next avaiable open sectors on the disk and saves the file in the original space plus the additional sectors. So assuming A and C have not changed, the new disk map might look like:
    AAAABBBBBBCCCBBxxxxxxxxxx
    And finally let's say first C and then A change but B does not- then the mess might look like:
    AAAABBBBBBCCCBBCCCCCCAAxx
    BUT- there is one more possibility which is what is affecting you. Let's say that file C is now deleted. The map will look like this- and the free space will no longer be consecutive- which Boot Camp needs the size of free space you have chosen for your BC partition to be:
    AAAABBBBBBxxxBBxxxxxxAAxx

    Anyhow, anytime a file is stored in two or more non-consecutive sections of the disk it is referred to as fragmented. Now think of the huge number of files on your hard drive and how often they are changed (especially system files in the background) and combine with large files that the system does not do an efficient job defragmenting and you can see the basic problem of fragmentation.

    On the other hand, corruption refers to a file that is written to a disk and has an error in the write, rendering it unusable since the info contained is not what was intended to be there. Other ways a file can get corrupted is by shutting down the computer while files are still being written, and a program accidentally writing a file using some of an existing file's space on the drive.

    Since there is nothing wrong with a fragmented file per se, if you back it up and restore it it will no longer be fragmented since the restore file writes a single file at a time on a blank disk- so when first restored each file will be consecutive on the disk and the example above on the restored disk would look like the following and all free space would be in one big block again- and the Boot Camp Assistant would be happy again:
    AAAAAABBBBBBBBxxxxxxxxxxxx

    Now backing up and restoring a corrupted file will not change or fix anything- the file's corruption will be backed up as such and will be restored as a corrupted file, so no joy! :(

    So, the simple answer to your question after a far too long answer is that one real way to regain the unfragmented space that BC requires is to backup the files on your OSX disk (with Carbon Copy Cloner, SuperDuper, Time Machine, etc.) reformat the disk and restore the backup. Or just reformat the disk and reinstall OSX if you have nothing you want to save (which I really doubt! ;))

    The second way is to use the commercial product iDefrag, but without a full backup ahead of time for insurance, any program that moves files and rewrites them is a real gamble. If a program like iDefrag is partially through running and there is a power loss, etc. etc. etc. you could wind up with a disk that is unusable until reformatted with your data gone, so keep that in mind.
     
  9. ardesigns thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    #9
    Thanks for the thorough response! I think I'll backup and reformat, but how do I do that? What settings should I choose in Disk Utility, and do I have to unmount my internal HDD?

    Thanks again,
    ARDesigns
     
  10. illegallydead macrumors 6502a

    illegallydead

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    Location:
    Colorado!!!
    #10
    You can back up either using time machine or just drag the entire contents of your hard drive to that external disk of yours. Once you are re-installed, you can drag and drop back the files you want/need.

    To reformat / reinstall, restart your computer with the Leopard DVD in the disk drive. If it doesn't automatically boot into the DVD on restart, then reboot again and hold the "option" key once your computer makes the "bong" noise. Scroll over to the DVD and you will boot into it. From there, it will bring up the standard Aurora background and will prompt you with some options. I believe you will want to go the the menu bar at the top, and find disk utility. From there I believe you can re-format and then install Leopard all squeaky clean :D

    It has been a while since I have been through this process, so if anything is out of whack, I'm sure someone will correct me :p

    Good luck with all this!
     
  11. Enigmafan420 macrumors 6502a

    Enigmafan420

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    Apr 18, 2008
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    Puget Sound, U.S.A.
    #11
    I loved the explanation above-very CLEAR and Simple discussion of what happens when disks become fragmented.

    The problem is, yeah, you can defragment your HD-but just by using the thing, it will get fragmented again. It is a NORMAL part of operating your computer and I am not so sure I am a defrag believer.

    Maybe in extreme cases it is warranted, but IMHO, it is an over diagnosed issue, and in my former Windoze daze, (15 years as the neighborhood geek, though no formal IT training), I have seen only one HD that truly was experiencing performance issues due to fragmentation problems. I am not all that familiar with how much of an issue it is in OS-X, but I guess what I am trying to say, is that it is unlikely that your HD is really THAT fragmented, you may be disappointed with the results if you do defrag, and even if you do defrag it, it will be come (somewhat) fragmented again just from normal use.
     
  12. sickmacdoc macrumors 68020

    sickmacdoc

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2008
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    #12
    Just wanted to add one quick note, as under normal circumstances I totally agree and just let OSX do its thing and have never bothered defragmenting- particularly after reviewing Apple's docs like Mac OSX Disk Optimization (and in spite of the fact that it mentions 10.3 specifically in the doc, the Products affected list at the top does include 10.4 and 10.5. Guess they missed the 10.3 reference when they updated the doc 6/23/08!).

    Oh and BTW- that is a good point about it starting all over again right after defragmenting is complete! A totally fragment free disk is indeed a momentary thing.

    Unfortunately the OP ran into one of those "not normal" circumstances when attempting to repartition his disk for BootCamp- that being that some large (probably system) files were so scattered that there was no solid block of free space left on the hard drive large enough to hold his BC partition. When BootCamp goes to set up a partition for Windows it simply cannot do it without one big chunk of uninterrrupted free space on the disk at least as large as the partition size that the user requests in the initial BC setup. :eek: This not the first time this has happened either- there have been other threads in the past dealing with this issue regarding BootCamp. :(

    BTW- Your point about the fragmentation starting again right after a defrag is well taken! A 100% non-fragmented disk is indeed a momentary thing.
     
  13. ardesigns thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    #13
    Thanks for all the help guys! One more thing though: If I reformat the disk and reinstall Leopard, when I restore my files by copying them back from an external HDD, won't I lose preferences, and programs that have been registered or downloaded and installed? Would a disk image be more appropriate? I tried unmounted the drive and saving a disk image by booting to the install disk, opening disk utility, unmounting the drive and saving a disk image but something went wrong, it stopped after saving about 5gb :(.
    Are there any ways to fully restore my computer after a reformat?

    Thanks,
    ARDesigns
     
  14. sickmacdoc macrumors 68020

    sickmacdoc

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    Jun 14, 2008
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    #14
    Yeah me again! ;)

    Whether or not you will lose prefs or installed programs registrations and such just depends on how you do your backup in the first place really.

    I would not recommend trying to do the backup with a disk image, and especially would not personally recommend one note above that told you to just drag the entire contents of your hard drive to your external. If you do that you can run into some serious problems with successfully restoring files into your newly installed OSX on your internal drive due to permissions issues, etc.- and using one of the methods below will eliminate that concern as well as making the restoration process far easier.

    The simplest and most secure way to back up your drive completely (and it will preserve your prefs, app registrations, etc. 100%) is to use one of the methods I mentioned in a previous post- either using Time Machine in Leopard, the free program Carbon Copy Cloner or the full registered version of SuperDuper.

    Any of these three will do the job right- with the bonus that in restoring the backup they each would create, everything will be restored and the internal drive will be back to exactly as it was when it was backed up. No other installations or restorations will be necessary. Personally I would recommend Carbon Copy Cloner for simplicity. Using a couple of the advanced options you can clone your drive to your external without disturbing existing files (see questions below) very simply and reliably- and the price is right!

    I will quit there to give you some time to look at the software and in the meantime tell us more about your external drive- are there files already on it that you want to keep, if so how much free space is on it, how does it connect to your Mac and most importantly what is the current "format" and "partition map scheme" (which can be found by going into Disk Utility and clicking on the drive in the list on the left- then look at the info at the bottom of the page to get the answers please).
     
  15. ardesigns thread starter macrumors member

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    Mar 20, 2008
    #15
    First of all, thanks for all of your help, I really appreciate it. My external hard drive is a 500gb Lacie USB 2.0 Drive (only USB 2.0, no other options for connecting it). I currently have about 20gb of files on there that I want to keep. So, I have about 480gb free. My internal hard drive has a capacity of 120gb, and is about 103gb/120gb, so I think I have the space issue covered.

    The external drive is "GUID" partition scheme, with Mac OS Extended (Journaled) Formatting.

    Thanks,
    ARDesigns

    EDIT: P.S. What would the best settings be for me using Carbon Copy Cloner?
     

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