How to trigger VO2 MAX reading?

[MitzEclipse]

On my health app, the vo2 max reading is from 30 April, 5 days old now. I don’t get regular vo2 max readings, is there a way to trigger it so it reads it today? A 5 day old vo2 max reading seems very old…not sure if it needs a certain duration to calculate?

This is on a AW8 and iPhone 15, both latest OS. Thanks

 

[Madonepro]

On my health app, the vo2 max reading is from 30 April, 5 days old now. I don’t get regular vo2 max readings, is there a way to trigger it so it reads it today? A 5 day old vo2 max reading seems very old…not sure if it needs a certain duration to calculate?

This is on a AW8 and iPhone 15, both latest OS. Thanks

I feel you don't really get the point of 'predicted VO2 Max'. A 5 day old reading, you believe is 'old', when in fact it's 'recent'. To get an improvement in predicted VO2 Max, there are physiological and anatomical changes that have to be made to your body. Your lungs and blood vessels need to be more efficient, and small capillaries will need to be grown. As you don't make any more red blood cells when you are fitter, your body's ability to transport them to and from your muscles, is what improvement is made. Bear also in mind, that your VO2 max number may increase by another 10 or 2, as genetically, it is coded, and you will be limited.
Do not get to wrapped up in this, it is not a marker for greatness, it's a theroretical target. Improving your lactate threshold alongside your Max VO2 will allow your aerobic ceiling to increase.

 

[azhava]

Mine updates after I do an outdoor cardio session (i.e., run or walk). You didn't mention anything about workouts, but it won't just update spontaneously in between them.

 

[Night Spring]

Mine updates after I do an outdoor cardio session (i.e., run or walk). You didn't mention anything about workouts, but it won't just update spontaneously in between them.

This. Mine usually updates after a walking workout. However, if I do a running workout, but don't run at a fast enough pace, it doesn't update.

I also think it should update if you do an indoor workout, and run/walk on a treadmill, but I haven't actually tried that.

 

[azhava]

This. Mine usually updates after a walking workout. However, if I do a running workout, but don't run at a fast enough pace, it doesn't update.

I also think it should update if you do an indoor workout, and run/walk on a treadmill, but I haven't actually tried that.

I have. It doesn't do it for me, has to be an outdoor workout. I've tried it with indoor treadmill, stationary biking and strength training, none of them update it.

 

[tcuprof]

It doesn't do it for me, has to be an outdoor workout. I've tried it with indoor treadmill, stationary biking and strength training, none of them update it.

Apple Support indicates that workouts have to be outdoors (though I cannot imagine why):
It can take at least 24 hours of wearing your Apple Watch, followed by several Outdoor Walk, Outdoor Run, or Hiking workouts* and passive measurements with your Apple Watch before you receive an initial estimate.

 

[azhava]

Apple Support indicates that workouts have to be outdoors (though I cannot imagine why):
It can take at least 24 hours of wearing your Apple Watch, followed by several Outdoor Walk, Outdoor Run, or Hiking workouts* and passive measurements with your Apple Watch before you receive an initial estimate.

Most likely because it's taking pace into consideration, and the only way it can (semi-) accurately determine pace is by GPS.

It's all an estimation anyway. A real VO2max test uses a mask to measure oxygen uptake, and there's no way a watch can measure that. It's using an algorithm derived from studies of actual VO2max tests, and correlating your performance with the results of those tests to assign a value to it.

Clinical VO2max tests are done with steady-state cardio on calibrated equipment with known speeds, distances, workloads, temperatures, etc. The further away you get from that level of control, the less accurate the correlations are. If you're running in extraordinarily hot weather over a surface with varied elevation changes, that's going to skew the results. If you're performing HIIT/interval workouts, that's going to skew the results. If you're training at a much higher/lower elevation than whatever was used for the algorithm, that's going to skew the results.

The only useful thing about the VO2max "results" from any training watch (Apple or otherwise) is to take note of the baseline and monitor the changes over time - that will at least give you an idea of whether your cardiovascular fitness is increasing, maintaining, or decreasing. The results themselves may not be clinically accurate, but if it says 32.5 when you start training and 41.7 three months later, you know you've improved your cardio fitness.

 

[Mackilroy]

The only useful thing about the VO2max "results" from any training watch (Apple or otherwise) is to take note of the baseline and monitor the changes over time - that will at least give you an idea of whether your cardiovascular fitness is increasing, maintaining, or decreasing. The results themselves may not be clinically accurate, but if it says 32.5 when you start training and 41.7 three months later, you know you've improved your cardio fitness.

That's my attitude about it. The change over time is the truly valuable information that a watch can provide - and still useful! - but if you want the real value, you have to go be specifically tested.

 

[MitzEclipse]

I have. It doesn't do it for me, has to be an outdoor workout. I've tried it with indoor treadmill, stationary biking and strength training, none of them update it.

Same. I do 2-3 workout tracking during the day. Either with WatchOS Workout app or WorkOutDoors app. VO2 MAX is still not refreshed...now after 6 days.

 

[MitzEclipse]

Apple Support indicates that workouts have to be outdoors (though I cannot imagine why):
It can take at least 24 hours of wearing your Apple Watch, followed by several Outdoor Walk, Outdoor Run, or Hiking workouts* and passive measurements with your Apple Watch before you receive an initial estimate.

I am tracking outdoor workouts as well. Outdoor cycling and outdoor running.

 

[MitzEclipse]

Most likely because it's taking pace into consideration, and the only way it can (semi-) accurately determine pace is by GPS.

It's all an estimation anyway. A real VO2max test uses a mask to measure oxygen uptake, and there's no way a watch can measure that. It's using an algorithm derived from studies of actual VO2max tests, and correlating your performance with the results of those tests to assign a value to it.

Clinical VO2max tests are done with steady-state cardio on calibrated equipment with known speeds, distances, workloads, temperatures, etc. The further away you get from that level of control, the less accurate the correlations are. If you're running in extraordinarily hot weather over a surface with varied elevation changes, that's going to skew the results. If you're performing HIIT/interval workouts, that's going to skew the results. If you're training at a much higher/lower elevation than whatever was used for the algorithm, that's going to skew the results.

The only useful thing about the VO2max "results" from any training watch (Apple or otherwise) is to take note of the baseline and monitor the changes over time - that will at least give you an idea of whether your cardiovascular fitness is increasing, maintaining, or decreasing. The results themselves may not be clinically accurate, but if it says 32.5 when you start training and 41.7 three months later, you know you've improved your cardio fitness.

I get it's an estimation. I just want a refreshed estimation which watchOS should be able to do after an outdoor workout.

 

[Madonepro]

I get it's an estimation. I just want a refreshed estimation which watchOS should be able to do after an outdoor workout.

Only if it changes.

 

[MitzEclipse]

Only if it changes.

Don’t think so. You get other readings that are updated even if they don’t change. Why not vo2 max

 

[smirking]

I feel you don't really get the point of 'predicted VO2 Max'.

Way too harsh of a response, bro. I feel you didn't really understand the question.

The OP was confused why AW wasn't recording any data. How accurate it is or isn't wasn't the issue.

The only time I get a VO2 Max estimate is when I do outdoor runs. It seems to be only for certain types of workouts. I do most of my strength training at high intensity. They're sometimes more cardio than my actual cardio workouts, but it'll never record any readings for those.

I'm not too concerned that it doesn't. I know most of these stats are unreliable, but if I'm using these numbers to gauge progress against myself, it'd be nice if I knew when my watch was actually attempting to give me a reading.

 

[smirking]

Same. I do 2-3 workout tracking during the day. Either with WatchOS Workout app or WorkOutDoors app. VO2 MAX is still not refreshed...now after 6 days.

I get puzzled as to why some readings suddenly stop updating. They'll update after every workout for a month and then they stop and I have no idea what is triggering the behavior. I've found that using a Polar chest strap to get more accurate HR turns off certain readings which is stupid because wrist worn HR has terrible accuracy.

If anything the watch should be doing the opposite and ignore any HR readings when I'm not wearing a chest strap monitor.

 

[MitzEclipse]

my last outdoor run was on April 30, same day as the last vo2 max reading.

I’ve done several outdoor bike rides since then and this should trigger an updated reading.

I still don’t have a technical reason why vo2 max cannot be triggered or why it would need an outdoor run to produce an updated estimate. Makes no sense.

 

[bricktop_at]

I still don’t have a technical reason why vo2 max cannot be triggered or why it would need an outdoor run to produce an updated estimate. Makes no sense.

It does make sense if you do a little research.

 

[smirking]

my last outdoor run was on April 30, same day as the last vo2 max reading.

I’ve done several outdoor bike rides since then and this should trigger an updated reading.

I still don’t have a technical reason why vo2 max cannot be triggered or why it would need an outdoor run to produce an updated estimate. Makes no sense.

My background involves exercise science. I can take a guess. It's probably because the way it's doing the estimate factors in step count and/or stride length for it to produce any usable estimates.

Without doing any research into this, I'd guess all it's doing is cross referencing your HR, stride length, running speed, and step count against a database of runners who've undergone VO2 Max testing.

Doing the same for cycling would be a lot harder. How do you factor in speed as a factor. The kind of bike being ridden and type of terrain will factor in heavily. There's probably some data out there, but it's likely too wildly inconsistent to produce any minimally viable projections of VO2 Max.

UPDATE: Read the answer by @bricktop_at above again. That's probably about right.

 

[bricktop_at]

Without doing any research into this, I'd guess all it's doing is cross referencing your HR, stride length, running speed, and step count against a database of runners who've undergone VO2 Max testing.

Doing the same for cycling would be a lot harder. How do you factor in speed as a factor. The kind of bike being ridden and type of terrain will factor in heavily. There's probably some data out there, but it's likely too wildly inconsistent to produce any minimally viable projections of VO2 Max.

UPDATE: Read the answer by @bricktop_at above again. That's probably about right.

There's an interesting doc regarding this btw: https://www.apple.com/healthcare/do...h_to_Estimate_Cardio_Fitness_with_VO2_max.pdf

 

[Mackilroy]

my last outdoor run was on April 30, same day as the last vo2 max reading.

I’ve done several outdoor bike rides since then and this should trigger an updated reading.

I still don’t have a technical reason why vo2 max cannot be triggered or why it would need an outdoor run to produce an updated estimate. Makes no sense.

Bike rides do not trigger a VO2max update. The only exercises that do are outdoor walks, runs, or hikes. I get one every time I walk. You can also get estimates with third-party apps such as Athlytic.

 

[MarkX]

my last outdoor run was on April 30, same day as the last vo2 max reading.

I’ve done several outdoor bike rides since then and this should trigger an updated reading.

I still don’t have a technical reason why vo2 max cannot be triggered or why it would need an outdoor run to produce an updated estimate. Makes no sense.

Needs to be a walk or a run for at least 20 mins in duration.

Make sure power saving mode is off.

Taken from the Web..

The frequency of updates depends on factors like the type and duration of workouts, the consistency of Apple Watch wear, and the intensity of the workouts.

 

[doogm]

Apple Support indicates that workouts have to be outdoors (though I cannot imagine why):

It has to get as precise as possible a reading of your effort, and any indoor workout is too imprecise to know how much effort you are expending. That's also why bike workouts are not used (at least not yet): when Cardio Fitness was developed as a measure, it was impossible for the watch to know exactly when you were pedaling and with how much effort. That should no longer be the case if you have a compatible power meter that is BT connected to the watch, but as far as I know Apple still does not measure Cardio Fitness on any bike workouts.

FWIW, the outdoor running, hiking, or walking workouts also need to be on relatively flat terrain with enough exertion.

See https://www.apple.com/healthcare/do...h_to_Estimate_Cardio_Fitness_with_VO2_max.pdf

A VO2 max value may be generated after walking, running, or hiking outdoors on relatively flat
ground (that is, a grade of less than 5 percent incline or decline) with adequate GPS, heart rate signal
quality, and exertion (an approximate increase of 30 percent of the range from resting heart rate to max).
A user’s first such workout won’t generate an estimate, and a user needs to have worn Apple Watch for
one day before a first estimate can be generated.

See also https://developer.apple.com/documentation/healthkit/hkquantitytypeidentifier/2867757-vo2max (bolding is me):

Apple Watch Series 3 and later estimates the user’s VO2max by measuring the user’s heart rate response to exercise. The system can generate VO2max samples after an outdoor walk, outdoor run, or hiking workout. During the outdoor activity, the user must cover relatively flat ground (a grade of less than 5% incline or decline) with adequate GPS, heart rate signal quality, and sufficient exertion. The user must maintain a heart rate approximately greater than or equal to 130% of their resting heart rate.

 

[doogm]

Needs to be a walk or a run for at least 20 mins in duration.

For the first workout, yes. For subsequent readings, see my second link in the post above:

However, it can make estimates based on data collected outside a workout session.

I have seen this: I have done a walk outdoors that wasn't a workout (I was walking to a friend's house) and I did get a Cardio Fitness reading from the walk.