how will i install hdapm on optical bay drive?

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by happle, Nov 25, 2011.

  1. happle macrumors 6502a

    Jun 20, 2010
    i will be doing the SSD + HD in optical bay combo. i always install hdapm on my drives to reduce the load cycle count vastly, and to stop clicking sounds from the head parking.

    im just not sure how i will go about installing this for the optical bay drive without the OS on it. any thoughts?
  2. matt94gt macrumors member

    Jul 9, 2011
    Victoria BC Canada
    Im doing this down the road as well, so ill subscribe to this, can you explain this hdapm to me?

    So obviously you are swapping in a SSD and installing the OS on there right, and with the OS on there you can install this 'hdapm'?

    But issue your OEM drive will just be a 'storage' drive correct?

    I think someone (maybe my self or you) should do a complete write up with pics on this MOD as it seems to a popular choice and I still havent found a good write up on here.
  3. happle thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Jun 20, 2010
    hdapm edits the power settings on the drive. when you replace a hard drive, osx likes to unnecessarily park the drive heads every 30 seconds to "save power", but you dont want this as it puts extreme wear on the drive and makes your load cycle counts go out of control. also the clicking of the head parking can be quite annoying. apple puts custom firmware on their hard drives that come from the factory to avoid the clicking and such, but i still notice the load cycle count gets out of control without hdapm...which will kill your drive much faster than with it.

    but, when you install hdapm you do it through terminal and folders that would be on the OS drive in our case the SSD, since thats the whole point of an SSD, to use it as your OS drive. I actually did a write up on how to install hdapm before, but I have no clue how one would go about installing it on a secondary drive in the optical bay.
  4. Satnam1989 macrumors 65816

    Nov 16, 2011
    I Also need this, I already have a SSD+HDD Setup going and yes I can see the HDD head parking every 30seconds cause it makes a clicking noise, it gets really annoying so I just eject the HDD via the two button combo after i select the partition one by one (Commany+E) and remount the partitions when i need them, which lets the drive sleep meantime. Just make sure iStat and spotlight search exclude your HDD(all partitions on it)
  5. matt94gt macrumors member

    Jul 9, 2011
    Victoria BC Canada

    Im putting in my SSD HD into my optical bay tomorrow and would love any suggestions on what to do.

    Should I just follow this guide:

    Anything else, that might help save the life of my new SSD? Do SSDs really burn out faster then standard HDs? Also should I install the HDAPM on my old HD?

    So if I get this right it puts the HD to sleep faster (3 min vs 10) but would that not cause more cycles?
  6. dusk007 macrumors 68040


    Dec 5, 2009
    In theory yes but in practice no.
    Every 120GB and up drive needs more use than almost any consumer achieves. It only matters if you use it as a server drive that has access 24/7 and a lot too. In any othercase the remaining electronics (controller, entire nand chip) will likely fail due to age before you ever reach the maximum delete cycles of your ssd.
    Don't worry about that.

    I wouldn't use hdamp it hurts battery life and if you use the hdd as a data storage drive, for music, videos, pictures and have everythin else on the ssd, the hdd will stay asleep quite often anyway and if active not in a clicking fashion.
    In any normal use wear from head unload cycles should be negligible.
    Just lanuch SpindownHD from spotlight set 2-10 min and make sure there is nothing accessing the HDD folders all the time. Spotlight is sometimes a problem especially if some hdd partitions are in NTFS in my experience.

    With all this wear stuff you always need to keep in mind that it really just has to last for the avg use time. If you never touch the keyboard (and just use an external) it probably last a few decades but in any case the remaining notebook will die just as quickly as before and you gain nothing but inconvenience.

    Same with hdamp if it cannot by you valuable lifetime, which it won't with normal use, it is just wasting battery life.
  7. matt94gt macrumors member

    Jul 9, 2011
    Victoria BC Canada
    Completed SSD Install...Few questions!

    Ok so your saying not to bother with it? And just adjust the sleep time via SpindownHD, is this an app or already on my mac?

    Is there a way to see how many cycles it has made, and how can I tell exactly if things are constantly accessing it? Wouldn't running any app constantly access my SSD if all my apps are on it? (ie iStat Menu, Virus Scan, Chrome/Safari, etc)?

    How I have done my SSD install is put it in the optical bay, re-installed OSX, set it to boot from the SSD, set the permissions so that all files are saved to the mac hd. There are NO users or user files on my SSD just strictly the OS, Libary and Apps. All files are saved to my HD. Is this correct?

    One thing I have noticed after doing all this, is when on my HD, moving files from one folder to another it wants to COPY them not MOVE them...any ideas on that?

    Sorry for all the questions.

  8. GGJstudios macrumors Westmere


    May 16, 2008
    It depends on the app. Some apps are very drive-intensive, others, not so much. You can do things to minimize demands on your system, some of which will result in reduced drive activity, as well:

    Performance tips for Mac OS X

    You definitely don't need any 3rd party antivirus app to keep your Mac malware-free. Macs are not immune to malware, but no true viruses exist in the wild that can run on Mac OS X, and there never have been any since it was released 10 years ago. You cannot infect your Mac simply by visiting a website, unzipping a file, opening an email attachment or clicking on a web link. The only malware in the wild that can affect Mac OS X is a handful of trojans, which cannot infect your Mac unless you actively install them, and they can be easily avoided with some basic education, common sense and care in what software you install. Also, Mac OS X Snow Leopard and Lion have anti-malware protection built in, further reducing the need for 3rd party antivirus apps.
  9. matt94gt macrumors member

    Jul 9, 2011
    Victoria BC Canada
    Thanks. What I am thinking is putting the "apps" that I always use on my mac HD and not the SSD HHD. That way they can run from there. What do you think about that?

    Ill look at those links.
  10. GGJstudios macrumors Westmere


    May 16, 2008
    Many apps will not perform or update properly if they're moved from the /Applications folder. I wouldn't recommend moving apps from their default location.
  11. matt94gt macrumors member

    Jul 9, 2011
    Victoria BC Canada
    What I was meaning is moving apps that run in the background (istat menus, little snitch, lumina, and chrome) from my SSD (Mac HDD) applications folder to my Data HD (mac hd) applications folder.

    Would that make any sense that way there not always running on my SSD?

    ps: I dont appear to have Spindown HD.
  12. GGJstudios macrumors Westmere


    May 16, 2008
    It doesn't make sense to move any apps. When an app is running, it's not just the .app that accesses a drive. There are caches and other library or application support files that are accessed on the primary drive. Moving the .app file has no affect on the other files, and will not prevent activity on the primary drive. I recommend you leave Mac OS X and all your apps/widgets in their default locations. Move only your user data to a secondary drive.
  13. matt94gt macrumors member

    Jul 9, 2011
    Victoria BC Canada
    Ok I will leave it as is then. Right now thats how its setup, there are no user files on my Mac SSD HHD just the apps. All files and data are all on my Data HD (orig. mac hd).

    Thanks again for all the help, so whats this about the Spindown HD, I do not have it I have snow leopard. I want to try to put the least strain on my SSD as possible, so should I try the hdapm since I do not have this spindown?

    Thanks again!
  14. dusk007 macrumors 68040


    Dec 5, 2009
    SpindownHD comes with Snowleopard. You should find it by means of Spotlight. If not is located in Applications/Performance Tools/CHUD/Hardware tools/SpindownHD.
    You can also just use pmset in the terminal to do the same. SpindownHD is just a GUI for the HD Powermanagement and it also monitors what drive sleeps or not.
    It only works for the HDD not the SSD if that was unclear.
    Yes you just need a tool that show all the smart monitoring data. I now many on Windows but none for OSX. If you set up your HDD a bit smarter it really doesn't matter though. The unload cycles used to have a value that grew quite quickly because at some power WD started to unload the head more frequently to save power. The thresholds for SMART still stayed the same which where much older. Now some people thought their drive will die faster because and old threshold with a new power management system collided. I think WD and others would have changed it unless they thought that it wouldn't really matter in the lifetime or the head movement can handle much more unlaods.
    In any case a HDD used as a data drive won't experience much of those anyhow. Only on an OS drive it might ever become a problem not on a data drive.
    iStat not really it doesn't log anything. Once in RAM it doesn't need any disc access ever. Only the smart monitoring keep waking up an hdd if it isn't disabled by just asking it for the temps and stuff.
    Chrome/Safari yes sure but as mentioned only by writing to the cache and nothing else. But so what. You can remove your SSD if you only put the app on the SSD and everything else on the HDD. That is a waste of money. Everything you would ever gain is the launch time. At launch some stuff in the app package is loaded into ram where it stays but from that time on you want your working data on the SSD or else the computer behaves no faster than running of an HDD.
    You launch an application once, you restart maybe once a week. If you don't have any working data on the SSD, try to remove caches and stuff too, why did you buy the thing.
    Much of the snappiness comes from the apps reading small stuff of the ssd at run time. Reading cycles are not a problem it doesn't wear out an ssd ever. But if you move that data so that stuff is read of the hdd what do you gain. Nothing.
    Bad idea.
    Put everything back on the SSD unless it doesn't fit.
    What should go on the HDD is only
    backups, and archived data
    all movies that are meant for watching not editing
    music if the library is big (if it is small it saves battery if it is on the SSD because the HDD can spin down when you only listen in the background)
    pictures (can also be split IphotoLibraryManager can let you work with multiple libraries saved wherever you want. I use one for old photos and one for more recent ones. The latter on the ssd)

    What shouldn't be on the HDD but the ssd
    app data, caches, support folders, almost any kind of working data.
    folders that have are often access but only a little. I also put the download folder on the ssd for battery life reasons. If you only download huge files you can move that to the hdd but if you often download small stuff like pdf, zips, docs, ... you just wake up the hdd for no reason.
    Not really. Maybe it doesn't understand that they are on the same partition, or they really aren't.
    Finder like all file managers copys stuff that lies on different paritions because otherwise it would be a cut and paste operation.
    It moves stuff on the same partition because that only requires to change an address and not "move" any actual data.
    I don't have all my primary sym links on the ssd and cannot test but are you maybe just moving from one of those fake folders to another. The symlinks still are saved on the ssd and that might be the problem.

    In any case just move you User folder back to where it belongs and only relocate the Movies, Pictures, Music libraries and nothing else.
  15. matt94gt, Jan 7, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2012

    matt94gt macrumors member

    Jul 9, 2011
    Victoria BC Canada
    First off wow thanks for the awesome responses. I have put all my apps back on my SSD after your explanation, all of them other then Transmission which I use to download large torrents.

    I have searched and looked I dont even have a Performance Tools Im running OSX 10.6.8.

    How can I do this via terminal then?

    All my data will not fit, I download lots of entertainment which is pretty well the majority of the files on the HDD. The rest of the files are basically archives of my work and stuff I never access.

    I have my "projects" folder (stuff im working on) on the SSD which consists of photoshop, illustrator, and other files. Once I complete I project I put it on the HDD as I will no longer be accessing it.

    I do clean my caches etc all up with Clean My Mac I find it works quite well.

    So your almost saying I should be more concerned with the life of my mac HHD then my SSD?

    Thanks again for all your help.
  16. dusk007 macrumors 68040


    Dec 5, 2009
    MY mistake I forgot the Developer folder.
    It is /Developer/Applications/...
    It only shows if you have xcode and well OSX dev tools installed. It is on the OSX disc.

    Using terminal
    pmset -a disksleep 5
    for 5mins delay (default is 10)

    man pmset
    if you want to display the manual which show all the options that pmset allows.

    might need sudo (just type sudo in front of the command, it will ask for password before execution) to save the settings permanently in case it shows 10 again after restart.
    pmset -g
    to display current settings

    Well you should backup all important data on either drive. It is just with SSDs it is mostly just luck as to how long the controller or enitre nand chips work until they die a sudden death for whatever reason. Actually using up all the nand cycles is quite unlikely for consumer use. Even some heavy user needs a quater decade to manage that and chances are the controller silicon will die long before that without any apperant reason just because that is how electronics often behave and use makes little difference.
    Same goes for the HDD it can always die but the head load cycles are most likely not going to be the problem. There is so little about life expectancy that one can actually influence it is really not worth worrying about.
    Heat is bad but what should you do about it. Work in a 10C colder room? Would likely have a much bigger impact on life span. Maybe you don't use it for more than an hour per month and it still dies just like that after 2 years.

    The only ting one can do is backup data and be prepared when you have bad luck with a failing hdd/ssd which are some 5% and they fail quite erratically. There are server farms which put similar load, similar heat on all the drives yet still some live 7 years some don't make it past the first. Some drive series is just faulty and many fail prematurely but you don't know that when you buy but only a couple years later.
  17. GGJstudios macrumors Westmere


    May 16, 2008
    One app that I would not recommend, based on the number of complaints that have been posted in this forum and elsewhere, is CleanMyMac. As an example: CleanMyMac cleaned too much. While you may not have experienced problems yet, enough people have that it's wise to avoid it, especially since there are free alternatives that have better reputations, such as Onyx.

    You really don't need "cleaner" or "maintenance" apps to keep your Mac running well, and some of these apps can do more harm than good. Most only remove files/folders or unused languages or architectures, which does nothing more than free up some drive space. It will not make your Mac run faster or more efficiently, since having stuff stored on a drive does not impact performance, unless you're running out of drive space.

    Mac OS X does a good job of taking care of itself, without the need for 3rd party software.
  18. jon08 macrumors 68000

    Nov 14, 2008
    Guys, do you have any ideas why my HDD in the Optibay wakes up a couple of mins after ejecting it?

    And I'm only surfing on the internet and chatting on a messenger, not doing anything else.

    Some additional info: only my Downloads folder is on the HDD. I use iStat Menus but have disabled HDD monitoring. Moreover, I've added "HDD" to the Privacy list on Spotlight (hmm, but apparently that won't do because as soon as I eject my HDD it will disappear from the Privacy list - could sb tell me the Terminal command that will prevent Spotlight from indexing the HDD in the optibay?).

    Is there anything else I could do to prevent it from waking up for nothing? By the way, I'm using hdapm - could this be the culprit for its waking up?

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