I agree. Google has made a mess of Android in a very short time. It is the next Symbian - cheap software for cheap phones (sorry, no offense to Symbian). That leaves room for Palm if HP has the resolve to do it right. As much as I don't care for HP as a company, Android's market share is ripe for a takeover. The initial puppy love affair is officially over. Most people who own an Android phone don't even know what software is on it, leaving zero brand loyalty and plenty of room for change.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
HP Considering Licensing WebOS, Samsung Reportedly Interested
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I agree. Google has made a mess of Android in a very short time. It is the next Symbian - cheap software for cheap phones (sorry, no offense to Symbian). That leaves room for Palm if HP has the resolve to do it right. As much as I don't care for HP as a company, Android's market share is ripe for a takeover. The initial puppy love affair is officially over. Most people who own an Android phone don't even know what software is on it, leaving zero brand loyalty and plenty of room for change.
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)
My initial reaction is that this will be bad news for Android. Sanding can only make a donate number of devices, if some of these are going to start using WebOS then it would suggest that the number of their Android devices will fall to make room.
My initial reaction is that this will be bad news for Android. Sanding can only make a donate number of devices, if some of these are going to start using WebOS then it would suggest that the number of their Android devices will fall to make room.
GOOD! More crap products from even more crap companies means more companies that will go bankrupt and get out of the way of Apple's perfection and beauty. This will only be used to further display the glory and majestic splendor of Apple's products by showing how all competitors have no option but utter failure, embarrassment, and bankruptcy.
Not a fanboy.
Not a fanboy.
No way. Samsung is to big. Plus, they would offer it as an option.
This will amount to nothing. Win7 Mobile will gain momentum over the next 2 years. It will also be immune when Apple goes after all the copycat Touch Interfaces with licensing fees.
Microsoft saw this coming, and it is precisely why Win7 is so different in design. I'm no Redmond Fan, but Win7 Mobile has quite a bit of potential.
It's going to be iOS/Android/Win7 Mobile going forward. Samsung is simply doing more pissing and moaning. Quite honestly I'd like to see Apple move as much production out of S. Korea as possible.
Let's bring the 38,000 troops home as well. Reunification should keep Samsung busy for a good 20 years.
I'll have to disagree.
Google isn't going bankrupt anytime soon. There is a place for volume-based commodity-ware. The market exists. Provided Apple's competitors can serve this end (even if it's just a lot of junk), they'll do fine.
Apple is a special case, because they're doing things no one else is doing. However, this does not mean the competition can't move units. Google has captured the horizontal, volume-based market, and even though an Android device is no iPhone, they'll still move units.
Look at Acer. Junk-peddlers. But peddle enough junk and you'll get by.
Well I think both must happen...
Why?
HP target business buyers not individual customers. These business buyers are wary of single vendor hardware solutions. So as much as HP can go and say well it's all HTML5 there is very little lock in to the system. They will still meet resistance if they can't buy hardware from two sources.
So they license the OS two a few select and controlled vendors and check and another box in contract negotiations.
I think its a huge plus for webOS. HP has made a lot of nice improvements with webOS 3.x. The big thing they need to do now is reach critical mass. Even a market share near 10% would be enough.
A second or third company building webOS devices may be enough to reach that level.
I think it will also light a fire under Google to really push harder on Android or risk losing their #2 spot.
I haven't written off Microsoft yet either. They may not be a serious contender yet, but with Nokia, and with a possible "Windows 8 tablet edition" you really can't count them out. Microsoft has a lot of experience with slow starts that eventually build to dominance in a category. (Word, Excel, Windows, XBox)
A second or third company building webOS devices may be enough to reach that level.
I think it will also light a fire under Google to really push harder on Android or risk losing their #2 spot.
I haven't written off Microsoft yet either. They may not be a serious contender yet, but with Nokia, and with a possible "Windows 8 tablet edition" you really can't count them out. Microsoft has a lot of experience with slow starts that eventually build to dominance in a category. (Word, Excel, Windows, XBox)
-- Phil McKinney, president and CTO of HP's Personal Systems Group, June 27th, 2011.
So according to the CTO, when the CEO of HP talks about possibly licensing WebOS to other manufacturers, these companies and HP will lose the "absolutely critical" part that will enable them "to survive."
HP will lose the end-to-end control when Samsung (or whoever) changes the stock WebOS software to suit their ends, and Samsung makes the hardware but doesn't make the software, and thus cannot control the experience from end to end.
So either the CTO is right and end-to-end control is absolutely critical to survival (in which case the CEO is wrong), or the CEO is right that it can be successful for all concerned to split the software and the hardware among partners (in which case the CTO is wrong).
You are so predictable. Why don't you put me on ignore if you don't like my comments ? I wasn't even bashing Apple at all, but here you are trying to turn a perfectly grey conversation into a polarized black or white mess. Either you're with us or against us uh ?
Sometimes I hate this forum, you can never have objective discussions without the "Apple is the only ones that matter!" crowd getting their panties in a bunch.Samsung has a different model of doing business, it's working for them. Nebulaclash was out of line in his claim that only Apple's model works, I corrected that and pointed out the holes in his logic. Apple is a one trick pony. iOS only, 1 phone model only, and it's working out fine for them. Samsung has a different take. They sell more handsets, have hands in more areas of business and make tons more revenue and guess what ? It's working out fine for them too.
No one needs to lose here, everyone can be a winner, HP, Samsung, Apple. No need to make this an us vs them affair.
"Not a fanboy"? That's laughable. You're probably the most severe fanboy I've come across in recent times judging from your post, which also shows a big case of self-deceit, if you yourself actually believe your last sentence.
Fanboy doesn't even need to be a negative word, but you're taking it to new heights.
This is a shot directly @ Google's heart.
Nobody can play the game like Apple does. HP is just cutting its losses and moving into a MUCH more profitable paradigm. They realize they can't beat Apple by copying Apple (like Ballmer/M$ thinks they can?) and are completely shifting strategy. And by that I mean copy the biggest player in the market instead.
The ONLY thing going for Android is its extensibility across multiple hardware vendors and income brackets. THAT IS IT.
I'm tired of dumbsumers/analysts/fanbois saying otherwise - there is absolutely nothing redeeming about Android software itself compared to something along the lines of a jailbroken iOS install. It's like saying you bought the Alienware machine just for the included Windows 7 standard software - Really?
HP is being smart. They didn't buy a hardware company when they bought Palm - they bought a fledgling outfit with over 20 yrs mobile software optimization experience run by the disgraced guy behind the iPod Mini.
There are no ways about it - WebOS is spectacular; and HP made the buy of the year. Now all they have to do is copy Google's models of pervasive positioning in ALL income brackets of the market. Coupled with their superior OS (vs Android) they have a shot @ the next multi-vendor supported 'standard' OS. This isn't desktop anymore; POST-PC moves at least 2x as fast.
If anyone's scared right now, it's Apple.
Nobody can play the game like Apple does. HP is just cutting its losses and moving into a MUCH more profitable paradigm. They realize they can't beat Apple by copying Apple (like Ballmer/M$ thinks they can?) and are completely shifting strategy. And by that I mean copy the biggest player in the market instead.
The ONLY thing going for Android is its extensibility across multiple hardware vendors and income brackets. THAT IS IT.
I'm tired of dumbsumers/analysts/fanbois saying otherwise - there is absolutely nothing redeeming about Android software itself compared to something along the lines of a jailbroken iOS install. It's like saying you bought the Alienware machine just for the included Windows 7 standard software - Really?
HP is being smart. They didn't buy a hardware company when they bought Palm - they bought a fledgling outfit with over 20 yrs mobile software optimization experience run by the disgraced guy behind the iPod Mini.
There are no ways about it - WebOS is spectacular; and HP made the buy of the year. Now all they have to do is copy Google's models of pervasive positioning in ALL income brackets of the market. Coupled with their superior OS (vs Android) they have a shot @ the next multi-vendor supported 'standard' OS. This isn't desktop anymore; POST-PC moves at least 2x as fast.
If anyone's scared right now, it's Apple.
Last edited:
This is yet another example of how the business schools/elite culture consistently underestimates + can not understand technology at all until tech-types show them otherwise. Instead of shooting where the bird is flying to, they shoot directly AT the bird...
End-to-end control is exhausting and needs a specifically designed internal bureaucracy to support it. See Apple and its fans. Licensing WebOS would be the BEST thing for HP. Why would you be stuck building hardware made obsolete in less than a year fighting a losing battle than being a GATEKEEPER like the big G?
I think the one thing that will help HP more than licensing WebOS is putting it on all their notebooks and desktops, which is in the works. They're actively working to create a non-Microsoft ecosystem that can co-exist with MS but which doesn't rely on it. If a user wants a WebOS-only notebook/netbook, they can have it.
QuickWeb and QuickLook on some of their notebook lines was the beginning of this initiative, but with WebOS it becomes much easier.
QuickWeb and QuickLook on some of their notebook lines was the beginning of this initiative, but with WebOS it becomes much easier.
I think you're mistaken. What you just said will be the statement that really amounts to nothing. Apple definitely gambled and made too big of a reach in this situation, and the fans/press have definitely made that known.
And C'mon, was anybody really surprised?
Woah - it definitely sounds like you are a fan though! Let's take a step back and look at some context. M$ is only now PREVIEWING their next revision of the software w/ multi-tasking. WebOS had a multi-tasking implementation that was critically acclaimed RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX. Ballmer yells WAY TOO MUCH to see anything coming let alone the incentives they'll have to place on 2009-class Nokia/Win7 products. Get real; a licensed WebOS model has way more potential than even Android.
No, they're being pretty smart.
Perhaps you should spend some time on the tech industry a little more before you start tackling geopolitics.
You assume HP would be as stupid as Google. Licensing is not the same as giving people a free open source OS, which is what Google did inviting people to tinker with it. You don't see your argument being made for Windows Phones.
Android fragmentation occurred in part to too many releases and compatibility issues (as many phones couldn't be updated, or weren't) and tweaks to the OS itself. Google, as always, just released something without really looking forward.
Not likely. Android is a proven platform, Web OS (in sales) is not. Samsung and all the other phone makers are making a variety. Some companies have Windows Phones, Android, and phones running custom software in the market place.
The real issue is these companies try to make each device look unique. They could just slap an OS on a phone and release it with a choice of OS-es, which is not what has been done thus far. It wold be a painless thing to do and reduce the investment a company would need to make. Though, they wouldn't do that.
Samsung, HTC, Sony-Ericson, Moto... they exist to sell devices. They could care less about the OS as long as they are selling devices.
Why are you being so so sensible? This is a Mac forum and we all want every company in the world to go out of business except Apple. We dream of the day when the entire world only uses Apple products. We do not want competition. We only want Apple.
I'm pretty sure Apple has even more fanboys. Have you been reading this thread?
Finally, someone who really gets it! We want Apple to be the only company in the world. No competition! If Apple doesn't make it, we don't need it. Apple is as close to perfection as humanely possible. And Steve is perfect.
Terrible move, IMO, but all is not lost.
I hope HP realizes that potential WebOS OEMs (e.g. Samsung) make hardware for two different OSs already, WP7 and Android. IMO, from the OEMs' point of view, Android is the best value proposition. First of all, OEMs don't pay for an Android "license" like they do with WP7 and WebOS. Also, by putting their own skins on Android devices, OEMs can make their devices stand out against competitors, something which they cannot do with WP7. Lastly, Android has enjoyed tremendous growth over the past few years while WP7 sales have been very anemic. Unless OEMs see potential for WebOS devices, they're not very likely to back them.
Also, if HP chooses to go the licensing route, it should completely shut down its smartphone business and sell it off to a competitor. Unless HP imposes hardware requirements (like Microsoft) for WebOS devices, licensing out WebOS will squeeze HP's margins. What's to stop a competitor from putting out a substandard device running WebOS just to undercut HP's devices on price? It either has to be HP and no one else making WebOS devices or HP should quit producing phones and concentrate on WebOS itself. It's simple as that. IMO, if HP continues to make WebOS devices and chooses to license it out, that will amount to financial suicide for HP.
With that said, I'm trying to understand why HP wants to do this. I can understand Microsoft or Google doing that. Microsoft doesn't make Windows hardware. The only hardware it makes is related to the Xbox. It used to make related hardware for the Zune. Google doesn't make any hardware and it has never been about hardware. But HP has been making hardware for years. What does HP hope to gain from licensing WebOS?
I hope HP realizes that potential WebOS OEMs (e.g. Samsung) make hardware for two different OSs already, WP7 and Android. IMO, from the OEMs' point of view, Android is the best value proposition. First of all, OEMs don't pay for an Android "license" like they do with WP7 and WebOS. Also, by putting their own skins on Android devices, OEMs can make their devices stand out against competitors, something which they cannot do with WP7. Lastly, Android has enjoyed tremendous growth over the past few years while WP7 sales have been very anemic. Unless OEMs see potential for WebOS devices, they're not very likely to back them.
Also, if HP chooses to go the licensing route, it should completely shut down its smartphone business and sell it off to a competitor. Unless HP imposes hardware requirements (like Microsoft) for WebOS devices, licensing out WebOS will squeeze HP's margins. What's to stop a competitor from putting out a substandard device running WebOS just to undercut HP's devices on price? It either has to be HP and no one else making WebOS devices or HP should quit producing phones and concentrate on WebOS itself. It's simple as that. IMO, if HP continues to make WebOS devices and chooses to license it out, that will amount to financial suicide for HP.
With that said, I'm trying to understand why HP wants to do this. I can understand Microsoft or Google doing that. Microsoft doesn't make Windows hardware. The only hardware it makes is related to the Xbox. It used to make related hardware for the Zune. Google doesn't make any hardware and it has never been about hardware. But HP has been making hardware for years. What does HP hope to gain from licensing WebOS?
As others have noted, competition benefits everyone. A third major player would be great news, although this is an awfully premature report. I'm sure lots of companies have made inquiries; but that doesn't mean any significant percentage of those will end up adopting the OS.
Yup, Android, iOS, and maybe WebOS - three major players.
More seriously... I don't care how good some people claim WP7 is, it's probably too late. Microsoft had the chance to own this market long ago, and simply blew it because they were more focused on using phones to drive their Windows brand than in actually understanding mobile devices.