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Discussion in 'Alternatives to Mac Hardware' started by esk, Apr 23, 2017.
what a shame
The only 'shame' is the piss-poor writing and wild conclusion jumps on that PC World article which you cite. I honestly don't know where to start; it's like reading a review written by a child. It's unbelievable that such an incompetent understanding of technology from that writer made its way to being published. That's PC World for you, I suppose.
Not to mention it's an HP laptop. That piece of crap will be throttling and overheating before you could even say CUDA.
Not being facetious but can you grab me a source to back all that up for THAT laptop?
I agree that it's a poor, clickbait article. However, your response is pretty much in the same vein (unless you have a source for your claim that the HP will throttle and overheat). If you didn't notice, that machine is as thick as a brick, so it should be able to cope with high-powered components c.f. Apple's new MBPs which have compromised power for the sake thinness.
There's a niche in the market for high-powered "desktop replacement" portables with large screens and internal space for decent GPUs and lots of storage that are portable enough to easily commute between desks. Apple used to offer a partial solution - the 17" MBP - although that was (is) still thinner and lighter than these PC "mobile workstations" (but at least you could replace the optical drive with a second HD). Apple used to offer a lot more choice - including the classic (and completely versatile) MacPro tower and quad core Mac Minis with dual internal HD or SSD drives. Now, well, they've finally admitted that the nMP was a dead end that they were unable to keep up-to-date, the quad-core Minis were dumped, and the 2 core one is hopelessly out of date (Intel had quad core/Iris Pro NUC systems, so the chips have been available for ages), the hugely popular entry-level Airs have been left to stagnate and the MacBook Pros, well, enough has been written on that subject (if you want an overpowered Ultrabook with more super-fast i/o than it can use but nowhere to plug in a USB stick... fine).
Its worth noting that HP do have a nMP-a-like (ish) SFF workstation: http://store.hp.com/UkStore/Merch/Offer.aspx?p=b-hp-z2-mini-workstation&jumpid=va_ytc34m85ex - but what they haven't done is thrown their boring old ATX tower workstations under a bus and forced everybody to use it.
This article is 100 percent sponsored content. If a 2017 laptop is faster than a 2013 mac pro - fine - totally understandable. But the article is just poor advertising.
i don't think that's a niche market at all..
ok, yeah.. probably a bit more niche_y then.
add- i don't really think you need 'large' internal space for decent GPUs.
also, i definitely wouldn't describe 17" screen as being 'large'... maybe large enough to make a portable more unwieldily (or, not able to fit in more standard sized backpacks).. but almost laughably small if trying to substitute for desktop monitors (me personally using 2x 27".. but even if compared to 1@ 24", the 17" screen is still rather small.. certainly not 'large').
I like this article, not judged by the quality of the review/journalism. But the more stuff like this that gets written in the press the better as it will put pressure on Apple to do something about the pro market situation for real. Keep 'em coming.
Yes you do - decent CPUs and GPUs generate a lot of heat and you need space for the cooling system & airflow. Ultra thin'n'crispy systems have to throttle back when things start getting hot. The Achilles heel on the MBP17" (which is still relatively thin) was thermal expansion/contraction cracking the solder on the GPU.
...17" is about as large as you can go and still have some semblence of being a laptop. I have a 17" MBP and when its on a desk I mostly use it plugged in to a 24" or 27" external - but 17" is still big enough to be really useful as a second screen, or to demo something to a small group etc. The screen is actually the same resolution as a 24" 1200p display.
Actually, I've got a very nice 17"-compatible backpack for when I have a fit of energy and cycle to work (OK, admission, power-assisted bike, but hey, I'm horribly unfit and old enough to remember when we thought PowerBook G3s were thin and light...)
i guess this boils down to what we personally consider 'decent'.
the gpus in apple laptops (or imac) are something i'd consider as being decent.. or good even
i had a 17" PowerBook.
and got it for the specific reason of 'desktop replacement'... a year or two later, i had to get a mac pro because the PB wasn't doing it for me..
since then, i've had two 15" laptops*, each one shrinking in thickness/weight compared to the last, and for me, it's been a much better size.. or, even if they still sold a 17", i personally wouldn't be interested. (i understand, other people would 'love' for apple to do 17" laptops again.. I'm just speaking my own experiences/opinion).
i've had a look at 12/13" a couple of times and the screen just isn't big enough for what i need..15" is a good compromise between portability & screen real estate (again, at least for me)..
but i'd really like a 15" that's about as thick and light as an iphone. would be sweet..
i totally don't understand people asking for thicker and heavier and wider laptops.. would not be sweet.
* and coming up on a 3rd.. considered the 2016 MBP but decided against.. maybe (hopefully) the next model works for me.
Have 2 Zbook 17's and their predecessors the Elitebook 8740W and 8770W, can run them at 100% CPU and GPU for days and never crack 80c. they are not the HP consumer garbage I love to bitch about.
I agree the article does suck ... and to be honest in many things my 2012 8740W actually is faster than my 2013 mac Pro.
I switched from a Mac Pro tower to a 17" MBP because I periodically needed to relocate it, or take it in to work. If I was continually flying with it or carrying it around during the day, I'd get something smaller - but for taking it into work or the occasional trip, its fine. I use video for research/demonstration purposes - enough SSD to carry around what I need would cost a packet, but the 17" let me replace the system drive with a 256GB SSD and the optical drive can be replaced with up to 2TB of spinning rust.
Now its getting to the end of its life I'm debating whether to go for another powerful laptop or go back to a desktop + a cheaper, lighter laptop and, frankly, the current Apple range isn't offering me what I want and I'm kicking myself for not buying a 2015 15" rMBP with dGPU 18 months ago. If I was prepared to switch to Windows I'd see a far, far wider choice of hardware. I prefer MacOS but I know from experience that I could get the job done on Windows - I'm lucky that I have the money to indulge myself with Macs (I might stop worrying and buy a tricked-out 2016 MBP + a dock for every desk but, strewth, the cost!) - if finances were tighter I'd have switched to Windows.
...that's what happens when you bet the farm on multi-core, multi-GPU optimisation: you get a one-trick FCPX appliance like the nMP instead of a versatile, general-purpose workhorse.
PCWorld appreciates your ad traffic. "Mission accomplished " as far as they're concerned.
heh, this pretty much sums up our personal differences in laptop wants..
because i'd estimate that i walk with a laptop for ~450 miles/year.. and fly with one at least 10 times per year.
maybe apple should make a 'MBP - new yorkers edition' (because everyone seemingly has one around here anyway).. then a 17" for the rest of the world.
It's just a blurb announcing a new portable and gives an underhanded jab to Apple nothing out of the ordinary.
The reality is it'll probably compare pretty favorably to the MacPro or any older quad workstations if you're willing to listen to it. The nMP get pretty loud when it's all hot and bothered this thing will be jet in the same circumstances
Perhaps if Apple opted to upgrade its Mac Pro, this wouldn't have occurred, but 3 years later people only have a promise of something different in 2018 or 2019.
PC world would just find something else Apple to take a jab at though. I like PC world but Gordon has acts like Steve stole his first born.
Totally agree the article is pure click bait, equally the "Auto Defender's of Apple" need to wake up and realise that that some of the competitions hardware puts Apple to shame in many professorial environments. My own experience of HP's professional notebook lineup mirrors yours. The EliteBooks and now Zbooks are solid performers designed and built for professional use, not FaceBook...
The real problem is that Apple is producing consumer grade notebook's that many want to be far more than it is, including myself...
Perhaps but in this case Apple made its bed and they now need to deal with an aging desktop that cannot be upgraded. I have little sympathy for their short-sidedness.
Regardless of the performance, we started deploying the Gen 3 Zbook here at work about 4 months ago. The machines are stable (now that the imaging team finally fixed their failures) but the DOCK, the $200+ Dock of this machine is an utter piece of garbage. We've had at least 8 completely stop functioning in the last 2 months, I have a pile of them at my desk. Utter crap.
Looks like making Thunderbolt docks isn't as easy as it should be.
Dell dropped their TB3 dock for the XPS series, and I think that only one of the multiple TB3 docks announced for the Mac is actually shipping - or 2 if you count the LG display, but that hasn't had a smooth run either...
I actually just bought a Zbook 15 G3 (i7-6820HQ/32GB 2133mhz/M2000M/512GB NVMe SSD) mainly becuase my Mid 2012 rMBP was not cutting it in the graphics compartment for 3d cad. I did a render the other day that pegged the CPU at 100% for almost 3 hours and no issues and no throttling. The Zbooks are fantastic workstation laptops, the NVMe SSD absolutely blows away my SSD in my rMBP, not to mention the quadro M2000M is a monster for CAD. The only thing I miss is the form factor, it's ugly.