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humans smart because of genetic defect?
- Thread starter zimv20
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Makosuke said:
Darwin specifically asked that his theory of evolution never be used to deny the existence of God.
I believe we were created, but I've got no religious quarrel with the concept of evolution... it's not my business to tell God how to make us!
Makosuke said:
Here's my favorite explanation of christianity+evolution over at the "Real Live Preacher" blog.
And as for the toothpick thing, try this:
Drop a bunch of toothpicks on the table. Pick up the ones that don't make a pattern. Leave the ones that do. Repeat a few billion times.
I believe 100% in evolution. I believe that we are a higher form of primate. I mean come on, look at the way we act.
iindigo said:
Go read a good book, like "The Blind Watchmaker" by Richard Dawkins. He specifically deals with this area of contention.
iindigo said:
While the details might be disputed, evolution is unquestionably - from a scientific point of view - fact. Too much evidence. It is what has happened. To believe differently is to deny the same type of science that, say, allows your CD player, computer, microwave, etc. to work.
I'm not a religious person, but I'm not going to dispute your right to be one. I would suggest, however, that you spend your efforts more towards deciding that a supreme being or beings shaped the initial rules of the universe so as to allow us to develop. There's really no way to deny that argument. However, that is a different one than saying the supreme being(s) currently, on a whim, alter species. Evolution is what happens. But maybe someone set up the game a long time ago. Look at the game of Life (the cellular automata version, not the Milton-Bradley one). Very simple rules, very simple setup, very interesting results. Look at the much-maligned "A New Kind of Science" by Wolfram. Self-promoting, yes. Old ideas rebundled? Yes. But very interesting look at how simple rules create complex things.
So now we have the idea of evolution evolving:
Take one now-identified rogue gene, add some well-meaning or otherwise motivated scientists, mix well with a few primate embryos = Planet of the Apes
Take one now-identified rogue gene, add some well-meaning or otherwise motivated scientists, mix well with a few primate embryos = Planet of the Apes
Frohickey said:Your post does not explain why my big sister is the devil incarnate.
Sorry, man. You'll have to take it up with Wolfram. He'll come up with a 1000-page explanation, with no footnotes, using automata. "A New Kind of Sister".
Frohickey said:Your post does not explain why my big sister is the devil incarnate.
Your sister only gets to you because you actually love her. You will look fondly on your memories of her as you get older. My brother also used to bother me greatly. There was about 6 years difference.
Originally Posted by iindigo
Forgive me but I had to say this - evolution is a bunch of donkey poo. I mean seriously, how on earth could everything fit together so well BY CHANCE? Test this by randomly dropping a bunch of toothpics on a table. Do they line up to make something? Of course not. Same goes here.
just because you cant see order in chaos doesnt mean it isnt there. stare at the static on a television set......eventually you will see a pattern.
Forgive me but I had to say this - evolution is a bunch of donkey poo. I mean seriously, how on earth could everything fit together so well BY CHANCE? Test this by randomly dropping a bunch of toothpics on a table. Do they line up to make something? Of course not. Same goes here.
just because you cant see order in chaos doesnt mean it isnt there. stare at the static on a television set......eventually you will see a pattern.
jsw said:
just because we have found a reasonable explanation of how we came to be doesnt mean "It is what has happened". it could very well be just a logical explanation. it very well could be GOD (the catholic version) who made it very easy for us to find evolution as an answer to test our faith. point is, just because it could have happened through evolution doesnt mean it did.
beatle888 said:
Yeah, there you go. While not religious, I'm not exactly atheistic, either, and if there is a God (or gods) - which I can't prove or disprove - I would assume that he/she/they wouldn't give us brains that work just to deceive us. "Here's a clue. Figure it out. Follow the leads. Yes, it all makes sense, but... ha ha ha. Joke's on you!"
You might believe in a malicious, prankster God who would prefer that we all have faith in nonsense than that we believe what we see and deduce. I don't. I don't think it's a sin to think, to reason, to conjecture and deduce. I don't choose to believe that clues were left as a false path, just to ensure that we don't listen to our logic but instead to stories. I think that science and religion are not supposed to be opposites. I think that there is more than enough room for God(s) in our world and lives. Science just helps us figure out his/her/its/their plan, that's all. You mention a Catholic God. Well, the Church has for some time - not forever, but in recent decades - been quite an advocate of scientific research.
I don't know if there's a God. But I choose not to believe in one who would prefer that we remain dumb sheep who refuse to open our eyes.
beatle888 said:
But, after further thought, yeah, I have to conceed your point. It could, theoretically, all be a setup.
jsw said:
my original intent in reponding was to say that just because there is a very logical explanation (evolution) doesnt mean that its how it went down. thats all.and im not saying god is a trickster, im just saying that in respects to the garden of eden, we ate from the tree of knowledge...now its up to us to make sense of the world unless we just choose blind faith. so if one goes on to try and find the answers instead of just excepting the word of god we might encounter lots of false avenues. maybe i shouldnt of said GOD tempted us with evolution...maybe the "evil" side of existence created the very good explanation in order to pull us away from the story of god.
i dont know. i think about it all the time and im sure all of us do. but who really can say for sure?
"dont believe in yourself, dont deceive with belief. knowledge comes with deaths release"
"im not a profit or a stone age man, just a mortal with potential of a superman"
dbowie, quicksand
beatle888 said:
and im not saying god is a trickster, im just saying that in respects to the garden of eden, we ate from the tree of knowledge...
I don't know, man. There's good reason to believe that a lot of that "tree of knowledge"/concept of hell/etc. stuff was made up to keep the masses - no pun intended - in line. Made up by those in power at the time. "Don't think - we'll tell you what to believe." Once you get people to stop thinking, they make excellent pawns/slaves/etc. Witness 9/11. Those guys were very intelligent about what they did. They just never thought about why - they were told it'd get them into heaven. And they believed it.
well, the word of god actually brought a lot of comfort to unhappy and confused people. it was actually the people in power that were threatened by the word. if men in power fabricated jesus than they would have to live up to their own fabricated values and morals. it would put too much pressure on them. men of power (when corrupt) would rather just create a police state or worse...a militant government much like saddam hussein. im sure religions were started with the best intentions. its human nature that screws us every time. our dog eat dog greed and selfishness. or maybe lack of compassion for people in need or maybe laziness. thats probably it. working so hard for survival makes us greedy and selfish. the ones that can overcome laziness make it while the lazy souls either become criminals or remain poverty stricken.
anyhow, enjoy your weekend.
anyhow, enjoy your weekend.