hyperpad any good?

Discussion in 'iOS Programming' started by Palidindrome, Feb 3, 2016.

  1. Palidindrome macrumors newbie

    Palidindrome

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    #1
    Was lurking through the iOS app forum and saw hyperpad.

    Any one try it? Is it any good? I want to make a game like Argo.io but with powerups and boobytraps.
     
  2. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

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    #2
    So for the same cost of the Apple developer account, you get something that writes the code for you and you submit it thru your own account.

    Sounds interesting, but it really depends on if it's any better than PlayGround and if you actually need to know how to code.

    Another option is to get the code for a ready made game and start there.

    Looks like a product for people that don't want to learn to code. It's hard to create a worthwhile game without knowing how to code.
     
  3. VPrime macrumors 68000

    VPrime

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    #3
    One of the founders of hyperPad here. Happy to answer any questions.

    The gameplay of Agar.io is really simple to create on hyperPad. You could be up and running very quickly! However, what makes Agar.io special is the online multiplayer elements. Currently hyperPad doesn't have any built in multiplayer/networking features. So you would have to develop that part your self once you export your game as an XCode project.

    In the next update we'll be implementing some networking features like HTTP requests, and the support for sockets. So you can create networked based games. These features will still require a bit of technical knowledge (you need to set up your own servers) but a great starting point.

    So for now, you could definitely get started on the gameplay part of it, then once the next update is out focus on the multiplayer parts.

    It's always interesting to hear how other people perceive us. You're right that hyperPad is mainly targeted towards people who can't code but you can still create great games with out programming. Our behaviour system is turing complete and is always improving. You can do a lot of powerful things with it.

    But, that's not where hyperPad stops! If you export your project you'll have access to the code as well. hyperPad is built off of cocos2d, so you automatically get all the power of cocos2d when you export your Xcode project. You can get each object in your game and it will be a subclass of a CCNode so you can do what ever you want with it at that point. Each object also has a scripting ability where you can do onEnter, onExit, onUpdate and on Fixed Update using blocks.

    Additionally, we're working on a behaviour that can trigger a block of code outside of hyperPad. So if there is a behaviour or functionality that doesn't exist in the behaviour editor you can write that code in swift or objective C then execute it like any other behaviour (due to Apple restrictions, this can only be executed when your export on xcode. These won't work in our in-app community)

    I like to think hyperPad grows with the user. You can start off knowing nothing about programming, but as you learn more and expand your knowledge you can take advantage of the more powerful features.. You can go as far as using hyperPad only as your editor to put your graphics together, then code everything in Xcode manually.
     
  4. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

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    #4
    For the price, you could give it a run and maybe post an eval back up here.

    I've seen code generators before. Usually that end up bloated, but some you can work with. Others work well out of the box. Really need to jump in and evaluate your own project needs.
     
  5. Palidindrome thread starter macrumors newbie

    Palidindrome

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    #5
    @VPrime thanks for for the info, I had chance to play around with hyperpad and I think that I'll try doing my gameplay first and wait for your networking features before submitting to the App Store.

    One quick question... When I submit to the App Store, do I submit it under my account or under your account? Also what do I need to get it in the App Store?

    @KarlJay I had a chance to play with it for a few minutes and so far I can see the potential. It has a lot of tools that I'm familiar with from photoshop and illustrator. I was able to import some graphics pretty easily and build a level quickly.

    I used some of their downloadable graphics and was able to throw together a quick game. I was surprised that physics and collisions were handled for me. I'll have to play with it a bit more and I'll update this thread as I go along.
     
  6. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

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    #6
    According to what I read on the site, you submit thru your account.

    I'd like to see the code it puts out. Both ObjC and Swift.
     
  7. Palidindrome thread starter macrumors newbie

    Palidindrome

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    #7
    So I was playing with it a bit more and I'm really liking the Behavior system but I feel like there are way too many behaviors to sort through. A search would be nice.

    I made a little demo of a pet fish simulator to test things out. It uses waypoints to move the fish to the closest piece of randomly generated food. There was enough low level behaviors to create my AI with basic building blocks.

    Here is a gif of my "game":
    https://gfycat.com/DistantDefenselessAndeancondor

    Here's a screenshot of my behaviors:
    [​IMG]

    I also open sourced it on the community:
    https://www.hyperpad.com/projects/nxscp6rm/versions/my-pet-fish
     
  8. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

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    #8
    Ok, I couldn't see the source code in that 'open sourced' link.

    Do you have the ability to make that fish more life like or is it just moving a pic around? In other words, how advanced can you go?
     
  9. VPrime macrumors 68000

    VPrime

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    #9
    @Palidindrome as KarlJay mentioned, you submit under your own developer account. When you export, you're given you an Xcode project where you can submit your self.
    All you need is a hyperPad PRO account, Apple Developer Account, and a Mac with Xcode to compile and submit to Apple.

    @KarlJay the Xcode project you're given is a static library with your project files. What you get access to is the hyperPad View and an API to access objects.

    So for example you want to add a motion streak to a specific object you would do something like this in objc or swift:
    Code:
    HPGraphicObject *myGameObject = [HPObjectManager objectWithName:"myObject"];
    myGameObject.onEnter[@"AddCCMotionStreakToObject"] = ^(HPGraphicObject *gameObject) {
      CCMotionStreak *motionStreak = [[CCMotionStreak alloc] streakWithFade:5 minSeg:10 width:10 color:[CCColor whiteColor] texture:gameObject.sprite.texture];
      [gameObject addChild:motionStreak];
    }
    
    As you can see, you can add "scripts" to any object. You can add scripts to onEnter, onExit, onUpdate, onFixedUpdate.

    Also, since each object subclasses cocos2d's CCNode, you automatically get all of their features as well.


    You can definitely make the fish more life like. @Palidindrome is using one of our downloadable assets, which are not the greatest. It only has a 2 frame animation. You can import animation sequences with as many frames as you need. You can also import sprite sheets as well (using Dropbox)
     
  10. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

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    #10
    So this is primarily for 2D games? Is it mostly interactive, non role playing types? Things like interactive quiz games?

    Does it have all the social media / back end server stuff built in like turn based or multi player interactive?
     
  11. VPrime macrumors 68000

    VPrime

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    #11
    Primarily 2D games. We're working on adding more UI related items, but our focus is media rich applications like games. The graphics engine (cocos2D) powers a large number of top App Store games already. You can make a wide variety of games, ranging from quiz games to full on action/adventure games. Your only limitation is that it's 2D only. In hyperPad some games are easier to make than others.

    For example, you can make a platformer game (Mario), shooter games, endless runnings, games like angry birds, flappy birds etc. all really easily. However, traditional RPG games are a bit more tricky. This is mainly due to you having to do things manually, or the editor lacking in a few areas.

    For RPGs to be easier in hyperPad 2 areas need updating:
    1) Better handling of saving/loading large amounts of data. Currently you need to save each piece of data individually. We're working on a new save system that works like a table where you have a key/value that you can save data across your entire project. This change will make things a lot easier.

    2) Better tools for creating your levels. RPGs typically use repeatable tiles to construct their levels. In hyperPad you have to place each tile by hand, or use the duplicate tool. This can get a bit tedious for RPG games. We're working on adding a new "Tiled" object type, where a graphic will tile inside a desired shape, this should help create your levels much much quicker.


    We have some social media behaviours, so you can post to facebook, twitter etc. However we don't have any pre-made behaviours for integrating with social media (like facebook log in). In the next update we'll be adding support for HTTP requests. So you can use
    POST, GET, Update/Patch, Destroy, and return or sends JSON data. You can use this system for connecting to 3rd party APIs like facebook, twitter etc, or turn based multiplayer.
    For realtime multiplayer we're working on adding support for sockets.
     
  12. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

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    #12
    Ok, that actually sounds pretty cool.
    Can you tell me about the current turn based system it offers?

    Can you build a turn based game where you would have a list of people on a server queued up waiting to play and have them do are fairly quick back and forth like a tic-tac-toe type speed and have a ranking system for that?

    In other words, can I use this system for a player ranking, queued tic-tac-toe game?

    Does it use any 3rd party and can you change it from Parse to iCloud or AWS? Do you have choices for the back end or at least have the code so you can insert your own back end?
     
  13. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

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    #13
    One other thing, if you don't mind.

    I'd like to see an example of a turn based game that has high end graphics and multiple levels. Maybe you have a link to a video or something, I think we'd all like to see just how nice of a project it can create.
     
  14. VPrime macrumors 68000

    VPrime

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    #14
    Well, there is no built in turn based system. We give you the building blocks so you can build your own. Our behaviour system is robust enough that you can create unique gameplay like that without relying on what we give you.

    You can't do your tic-tac-toe game just yet. You will in the next update. Right now there is no networking behaviours so you can't connect to a server. But once we introduce http requests and sockets you can connect to any server :).

    The http requests will be for 3rd party servers. We don't have the resources right now to offer included cloud solutions just yet (it is planned though). So you will most definitely be able to connect to Parse, AWS.. iCloud I'm not sure, since we haven't had a chance to play with Apples new cloud features. But any thing that has an API you should be able to connect to.

    We're still a fairly new start up, so most of our examples lack in the graphics department. However, some of our users have created some really polished games! I'll take a few videos tonight and share them here.
    Once we have the next update out we'll be making a few examples to show multiplayer. Most likely a chess game, your tic-tac-toe game also sounds like a good idea for an example;)
     
  15. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

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    #15
    I look forward to seeing the update. IMO, the tic-tac-toe would be a great simple example that people can relate to and shouldn't be too hard to do.

    Is there any time frame on the finishing the turn based support?
     
  16. VPrime macrumors 68000

    VPrime

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    #16
    Not ETA just yet. Most of our larger updates take about 2-3 months and we just released a big one. I'm hoping we'll be beta testing some of the major features of the next update by the end of February. Hopefully have the updated finished by mid-end March.
     
  17. VPrime macrumors 68000

    VPrime

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    #17
    One of my colleagues is doing a live stream right now on using hyperPad. He's remaking the hit iOS game Stick hero. You can see how the platform works, or ask questions.

    View the stream here:
    http://www.twitch.tv/killerhamed
     
  18. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

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    #18
    I checked it out for a while but TBH, it's hard to tell what's going on without knowing the program. I see a bunch of boxes and he typing some stuff.

    It looks interesting, but someone would need to start with a "how to" intro 1st.
     
  19. VPrime macrumors 68000

    VPrime

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    #19
    Very true. He did start off by explaining some things early on. But he's mainly assuming people have an idea of the app.

    We'll do another stream in the future that explains things a bit better. II'll also post the video here when he's done for the day.
     
  20. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

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    #20
    IDK if you ever seen the Lynda video training, but they are pretty good examples of how to do a video. I didn't hear the sound, but with something like this, some popups showing what he's doing might help as well.

    It looks like a program control flow chart with boxes that have control elements in it. That seems like a good idea.

    Once you get more of the network communications and other things in there, you could have a pretty cool system.

    How many active users do you have?
     
  21. VPrime macrumors 68000

    VPrime

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    #21
    Video tutorials are something a bit different We'll definitely be doing those! The live stream is more for off the cuff, watch someone make something live and ask questions :).

    Active users, well we went through a bit of a re-brand and pivot over the past year. We were originally called GamePress, had over 500,000 downloads with around ~30,000 monthly active users. However GamePress was never meant to handle that many users, it was more of an MVP. So the codebase was very bad and we couldn't make updates to it with out breaking more things.
    So we rewrote the entire platform to make it easier for us to work on, and made it a lot more powerful. We relaunched with the new name in September, haven't done any marketing just yet. So the new user base is quite small, and we're fine with that. We'd love to get back to 30,000 active users, but we're in no rush. We'd much rather do things properly and make sure everyone is happy by building a good product first.
     
  22. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

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    #22
    I can see a market for a product like this, but I also see how that market can change as some will choose templates in Swift and other options. One concern I would have is that games tend to become more advanced and customers tend to demand more from them. It'll be interesting to see what the life span of something like this would be.

    Marketing for apps is real tough, the whole industry has been shifting around. There's all kinds of spam and rip-offs and those that are good usually want top dollar.

    it's not so easy for a smaller funded or limited market app to get ahead. It's too bad the AppStore is so flooded, discovery is going to be a huge issue for quite a while.
     
  23. VPrime macrumors 68000

    VPrime

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    #23
    You're right that the market changes very rapidly, and we will have to keep up. We've been part of the games industry for a while, so we're not to worried about keeping up with the rate that games are changing. Our roadmap already includes for things like advanced lighting and shaders.

    Plus we're not pushing away users choosing something like swift. That's encouraged! We grow with the user. You can use our platform solely as an editor (think interface builder for media rich apps like games) then do everything else in Xcode with swift of objective C.
     
  24. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

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    #24
    Really? Your doing lighting and shaders?
    Isn't that pretty high end stuff? I'm no expert on game dev, only did a few tutorials, but those sound like advance stuff.

    Do you get user feed back on what they'd like to see? I didn't dig into the product, but I was thinking it was a quick way to make simple custom games.

    However, I can see that simple custom games would need to become more flashy over time. Users expect more and more all the time, and that's a good thing.
     
  25. VPrime macrumors 68000

    VPrime

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    #25
    Yup! We definitely get feedback from our users and we try to implement their feedback as quickly as possible.

    You can make way more than simple custom games! We've designed our platform to be as powerful as coding so you're not really limited in what you can make. Think Unity but for the iPad.

    The only limitation that we set is that we don't support 3D and thats partially because the iPad can't handle it, and we want to make sure our platform is ironed out for one use case first.

    Like I said before, since we give the XCode project so you're not limited to just our interface. You can access features of the game engine directly if you need to.

    Additionally, on our roadmap we have a planned feature that allows you to execute code from within hyperads behaviour system. This essentially allows you to use the simplicity of our behaviours to execute any block of code. Keep in mind, due to apple limitations the code will have to be written in Xcode and can't be brought back into hyperPad. This is a super powerful feature, but our behaviour system is robust no one has really needed it yet.
     

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