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Nova77

Guest
May 12, 2011
337
1
Video decoding on these machines is all about CPU power, and the consensus seems to be that a G4 CPU (even a pair of them) cannot handle 1080p at any reasonable frame rate, with 720p performance being marginal at best, even on the fastest G4s. Even G5s can struggle with HD video playback, particularly 1080p at higher frame rates.

No, no, and no. Bottom line : get CorePlayer. All right I don't know how the thread starter can have good results with Quicktime (that sounds very weird), but what I do know is what you can accomplish with the mighty CorePlayer.

Check my other post about Vimeo on a 733mhz single G4.... 1080p must be a JOKE for a G5, I am pretty sure about that. OK I don't have a G5, but my G4 can handle some HD 1080p (from OK to very very nicely).

Think about it.... Back in 1993 you could edit DVD-like quality (640X480) compressed video on a 40 mhz Quadra and system 7. Damn it. By today's point of view, 40 mhz sounds like the computer doesn't even have enough power to boot.

Apps apps apps.... optimization, coding.... everything is about it. Imho, the hardware made back in the G4 days is still overkill for any 2D 3D video application you see on the market today. I have no doubt a game like Skyrim SHOULD work on a G4. Programmers just don't work hard anymore. When you HAVE to find a trick because the hardware isn't that great, you work hard and get it working. Nowdays there is no need -- computers have more cores every day.
---------------

Now OP, what the f..... is your trick, because I want to know how you manage better results on a computer lower than mine in every aspect.
 

Nova77

Guest
May 12, 2011
337
1
The showstopper isn't resolution, but video bandwidth. 3,5MBit/sec isn't too much. DVDs have around 4MBit/s, typically. A typical 1080p BluRay Rip has around 20-30MBit/sec. So it's quite misleading to interpret a Youtube "1080p" vid as the typical 1080p case. Moreover, the GPU has nothing to do with decoding video. People seem to get Quartz acceleration mixed up with actual GPU decoding. The concept was first implemented in Windows machines in the ATI HD Series (after the X19xx series).

Of course HD on the internet is not like blu-ray. ...and most blu-ray rips have poorer quality than DVDs. I still think there is a way for my G4 to handle "real" HD 1080p. Since I don't have a computer with a blu-ray drive and proper software, it might take a while for me to find a way arround. I'm currently trying to get an uncompressed blu-ray 1080p file, we'll see what happens next.
 

skinniezinho

macrumors 65816
Jan 1, 2009
1,084
91
Portugal
No, no, and no. Bottom line : get CorePlayer. All right I don't know how the thread starter can have good results with Quicktime (that sounds very weird), but what I do know is what you can accomplish with the mighty CorePlayer.

Check my other post about Vimeo on a 733mhz single G4.... 1080p must be a JOKE for a G5, I am pretty sure about that. OK I don't have a G5, but my G4 can handle some HD 1080p (from OK to very very nicely).

Think about it.... Back in 1993 you could edit DVD-like quality (640X480) compressed video on a 40 mhz Quadra and system 7. Damn it. By today's point of view, 40 mhz sounds like the computer doesn't even have enough power to boot.

Apps apps apps.... optimization, coding.... everything is about it. Imho, the hardware made back in the G4 days is still overkill for any 2D 3D video application you see on the market today. I have no doubt a game like Skyrim SHOULD work on a G4. Programmers just don't work hard anymore. When you HAVE to find a trick because the hardware isn't that great, you work hard and get it working. Nowdays there is no need -- computers have more cores every day.
---------------

Now OP, what the f..... is your trick, because I want to know how you manage better results on a computer lower than mine in every aspect.

I like your point of view, I kinda think the same way.
Anyone know of a discount code for coreplayer?that could be awesome :p
When I am @home with my powermac I'll buy a license of it.

edit: found a code that works: MBHD20
 
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adcx64

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Nov 17, 2008
1,270
124
Philadelphia
Now OP, what the f..... is your trick, because I want to know how you manage better results on a computer lower than mine in every aspect.

Not sure! I do have dashboard and spotlight disabled if that makes a difference?

Im at a loss here!
 

Lord Blackadder

macrumors P6
May 7, 2004
15,662
5,496
Sod off
No, no, and no. Bottom line : get CorePlayer. All right I don't know how the thread starter can have good results with Quicktime (that sounds very weird), but what I do know is what you can accomplish with the mighty CorePlayer.

Check my other post about Vimeo on a 733mhz single G4.... 1080p must be a JOKE for a G5, I am pretty sure about that. OK I don't have a G5, but my G4 can handle some HD 1080p (from OK to very very nicely).

I know nothing about CorePlayer - does it use the GPU hardware for video decoding? If that's the case I can see how one might get smooth performance on a G4 - because the G4 isn't doing the decoding. Or does it make use of AltiVec?

Think about it.... Back in 1993 you could edit DVD-like quality (640X480) compressed video on a 40 mhz Quadra and system 7. Damn it. By today's point of view, 40 mhz sounds like the computer doesn't even have enough power to boot.

The legendary Amiga Toaster was a 7Mhz machine initially, and was a mainstay of the video industry. But times have changed. The increasingly higher resolutions demand more and more processing power. Optimization can work wonders (look at the hardware NASA uses - on paper it's many gennerations old, but every piece of software written for it is completely hand-tailored to the hardware), but at some level there is no substitution for raw power.

I love the G4, but it can't hold a candle to the Intel CPUs that Apple has transitioned to.

Apps apps apps.... optimization, coding.... everything is about it. Imho, the hardware made back in the G4 days is still overkill for any 2D 3D video application you see on the market today. I have no doubt a game like Skyrim SHOULD work on a G4. Programmers just don't work hard anymore. When you HAVE to find a trick because the hardware isn't that great, you work hard and get it working. Nowdays there is no need -- computers have more cores every day.

I can see your point, but if the latest from Intel is cheaper, much faster equal or better in energy efficiency than the G4, then those CPUs will outcompete the PPCs in the market.
 

Nova77

Guest
May 12, 2011
337
1
Nope. It gives better performance because it uses the very efficient CoreAVC decoder.

It uses Altivec in a very efficient way, too. (as seen on their website)
Seems to use the GPU in some way too, but IDK how. All I can say is I got better performance by upgrading my GPU. I think it has to do with CoreImage.
 

Lord Blackadder

macrumors P6
May 7, 2004
15,662
5,496
Sod off
Interesting. Too bad nobody figured out how (or bothered) to come up this this optimization until well after Apple EOL'd the entire PPC line.
 

ThunderSnake

macrumors 6502
Jul 23, 2010
310
1
Interesting. Too bad nobody figured out how (or bothered) to come up this this optimization until well after Apple EOL'd the entire PPC line.

Agreed! It's almost sad when you see how well Altivec optimized code runs on these machines. There is a lot out there, to be sure, but there could have been so much more.

...but my G4 can handle some HD 1080p (from OK to very very nicely).

What is your CPU load when running 1080p in CorePlayer, if you don't mind my asking? I've been thinking about getting it--Planning to make my decision after zen's review, but your machine is much closer to mine than zen's is.
 

adcx64

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Nov 17, 2008
1,270
124
Philadelphia
Planning to make my decision after zen's review, but your machine is much closer to mine than zen's is.

Honestly, I wouldnt waste my time reading it. Zen told me that im "stuck in delusion" when I told him I could play 1080p. He is a backward thinker and not open to others findings. Also, our Macs fare better than his. We have a faster bus and DP really makes a difference with symmetrical processing. Our 1100 geekbench scores soar higher than his.

I still want to know why my machine is so capable!?
 

JacaByte

macrumors 6502
Dec 26, 2009
315
0
You guys are far beyond me, I'm not sure if my MDD can handle 1080P video, but it did a great job before I replaced it with a MBP.

Truly, the PPC machines that Apple made have a timeless quality to them. It's fun to boot up my G4 or Performa just to tinker around a bit on them.
 

Nova77

Guest
May 12, 2011
337
1
Agreed! It's almost sad when you see how well Altivec optimized code runs on these machines. There is a lot out there, to be sure, but there could have been so much more.



What is your CPU load when running 1080p in CorePlayer, if you don't mind my asking? I've been thinking about getting it--Planning to make my decision after zen's review, but your machine is much closer to mine than zen's is.

It depends. On youtube HD 1080 content, it's about 100-105% (yeah I know 105% is impossible but thats what activity monitor shows). Thats normal since it cannot play every frame (It can only do it most of the time). However, when encoding is good, I can get a score of as high as 160% playback speed. I will have to check whats the CPU load of these type of files because I don't know it by heart. The best HD 1080p content on my MDD are Apple trailers. Sounds fun heh.... Quicktime can't play them proprely, but CorePlayer plays them absolutely perfect.

If you have any question about CorePlayer performance, feel free to ask, I'm totally addicted to that app. I'm learning every tweak and tricks to use it at its full potential, too.
 
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ThunderSnake

macrumors 6502
Jul 23, 2010
310
1
If you have any question about CorePlayer performance, feel free to ask, I'm totally addicted to that app. I'm learning every tweak and tricks to use it at its full potential, too.

Cool. Thanks. I guess I just want to know if it can play 1080p (any codec, I can convert it to anything that it likes) without dropping frames and without pushing the CPU past 75% (dual MDD like yours). There are only a few things that I really want in 1080p, but it would be worth $20 just for The Bladerunner and Watchmen in 1080p.
 

skinniezinho

macrumors 65816
Jan 1, 2009
1,084
91
Portugal
Cool. Thanks. I guess I just want to know if it can play 1080p (any codec, I can convert it to anything that it likes) without dropping frames and without pushing the CPU past 75% (dual MDD like yours). There are only a few things that I really want in 1080p, but it would be worth $20 just for The Bladerunner and Watchmen in 1080p.

You have a promo code in my earlier post (code: MBHD20) .
I just bought coreplayer, too bad I had to pay VAT because I am from Portugal.
Will try the file that we are talking in this topic and then I will give feedback.

edit:
No luck playing this file:
QT on 10.4.11 - from 0 to 10fps
VLC on 10.4.11 - just black screen
Coreplayer on 10.4.11 - played everything but it wasn't smooth, can't tell what fps

I'm amazed with coreplayer!

edit2:

Today I was playing with a friends pc (Athlon 64 3000+,2Gb DDR400,7800GT,2x160Gb Raid 0) and tried playing this 1080p clip on it:
http://www.digital-digest.com/movies/The_Dictator_1080p_Theatrical_Trailer.html

Only XBMC played it "watchable", well decided to try the same clip on the powermac:

VLC: only the first image of the clip and sound,no fps lol
QT: from 0 to 9 fps
Coreplayer : I don't know the fps but it was moving lol and not bad at all, it lost some frames, but hey it's a 1.2GHz machine, I AM VERY IMPRESSED with coreplayer!
 
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Nova77

Guest
May 12, 2011
337
1
You have a promo code in my earlier post (code: MBHD20) .
I just bought coreplayer, too bad I had to pay VAT because I am from Portugal.
Will try the file that we are talking in this topic and then I will give feedback.

edit:
No luck playing this file:
QT on 10.4.11 - from 0 to 10fps
VLC on 10.4.11 - just black screen
Coreplayer on 10.4.11 - played everything but it wasn't smooth, can't tell what fps

I'm amazed with coreplayer!

edit2:

Today I was playing with a friends pc (Athlon 64 3000+,2Gb DDR400,7800GT,2x160Gb Raid 0) and tried playing this 1080p clip on it:
http://www.digital-digest.com/movies/The_Dictator_1080p_Theatrical_Trailer.html

Only XBMC played it "watchable", well decided to try the same clip on the powermac:

VLC: only the first image of the clip and sound,no fps lol
QT: from 0 to 9 fps
Coreplayer : I don't know the fps but it was moving lol and not bad at all, it lost some frames, but hey it's a 1.2GHz machine, I AM VERY IMPRESSED with coreplayer!

try disabling "AVC deblocking filter" in coreplayer's prefs, lowers quality but speeds things up
 

Cox Orange

macrumors 68000
Jan 1, 2010
1,814
241
(...) The best HD 1080p content on my MDD are Apple trailers. (...)

How do you download Apple trailers, other than watch them via a player (like quicktime) embedded in the browser? Or is this discussion about players embedded in browsers?
 

Nova77

Guest
May 12, 2011
337
1
How do you download Apple trailers, other than watch them via a player (like quicktime) embedded in the browser? Or is this discussion about players embedded in browsers?

-Click on the trailer
-take a look at the embedded quicktime player in your browser, spot the grey bar (shows download status)
-wait for the download to finish
-spot the [>] button at the right of the play bar in the corner
-click and select "save as source (quicktime movie)"

-Open file with CorePlayer and see how nice this is!
 

Cox Orange

macrumors 68000
Jan 1, 2010
1,814
241
-Click on the trailer
-take a look at the embedded quicktime player in your browser, spot the grey bar (shows download status)
-wait for the download to finish
-spot the [>] button at the right of the play bar in the corner
-click and select "save as source (quicktime movie)"

-Open file with CorePlayer and see how nice this is!

I never watched apple movie trailers, so maybe I looked at the wrong webpage, but here is what I found.

a) trailers.apple.com - here I can 1. either watch the video embedded in the browser, but the bar is in a "fancy" piano-black with turquoise progression bar and no "(>)" with dropdown menue or 2. click on a turquoise little bar under the movie-selection-picture and get a drop down menue, where I can read and choose "download: 480p HD, 720pHD, 1080p HD"

b) go to apple.com and watch an information video, but I get the same piano-blackbar under the player without any dropdown menue (like I was used to from these videos, when there was a silver bar with option menue).

c) go to a TV-site, chose "play video in quicktimeplayer", it opens in the browser and I get the familiar silver bar, with a drop-down-menue at the very right of the bar. There I can choose "save as source", but it is a QT Pro feature, so it won't work. I have Pro enabled on my PowerMac G4 with Logic studio on it, but I remember when I once tried to either "download as source" or "download quicktime-movie" it just gave me a small file, that was nothing but acting like a way to automatically open QT-player (the actual application) and stream it from the internet. I even remember I wanted the pro feature to be able to save QT-files, but was very disappointed the profeature only lets you save some sort of link-file.

I guess I am just to stupid for these things :)
 

Nova77

Guest
May 12, 2011
337
1
I never watched apple movie trailers, so maybe I looked at the wrong webpage, but here is what I found.

a) trailers.apple.com - here I can 1. either watch the video embedded in the browser, but the bar is in a "fancy" piano-black with turquoise progression bar and no "(>)" with dropdown menue or 2. click on a turquoise little bar under the movie-selection-picture and get a drop down menue, where I can read and choose "download: 480p HD, 720pHD, 1080p HD"

b) go to apple.com and watch an information video, but I get the same piano-blackbar under the player without any dropdown menue (like I was used to from these videos, when there was a silver bar with option menue).

c) go to a TV-site, chose "play video in quicktimeplayer", it opens in the browser and I get the familiar silver bar, with a drop-down-menue at the very right of the bar. There I can choose "save as source", but it is a QT Pro feature, so it won't work. I have Pro enabled on my PowerMac G4 with Logic studio on it, but I remember when I once tried to either "download as source" or "download quicktime-movie" it just gave me a small file, that was nothing but acting like a way to automatically open QT-player (the actual application) and stream it from the internet. I even remember I wanted the pro feature to be able to save QT-files, but was very disappointed the profeature only lets you save some sort of link-file.

I guess I am just to stupid for these things :)

My bad!! Its not embedded in the browser. The other part was OK though.

Try this : http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/lions_gate/thehungergames/

click on : "view trailers"
click on the arrow near "watch now"
select the HD trailer download of your choice

Now the quicktime window will show up..... wait for the grey bar, and "save as source".
-----
I should have double-checked before posting, sorry!
 
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Cox Orange

macrumors 68000
Jan 1, 2010
1,814
241
Thanks! Now it works :) saved the movie correctly and no little kb-file.

But concerning the embedded browser, what is the "save as source" and "save as quicktime movie" there for? I only get 4kb files, when I do this.
 

Nova77

Guest
May 12, 2011
337
1
Does the OSX CorePlayer decode DTS(-HD)/DD audio?

I don't think so. You can always convert the audio though. Its waaay faster than to convert image. CorePlayer works best with AAC audio (stereo or surround).
 
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