I can't seem to warm up to OS X

strollin

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 28, 2009
2
0
I have been a Windows user since Win 1.0 and until June of this year I had never used Macs or OS X. Over the years, I have seen many testimonials from people that rave about their Mac and OS X and, since I was totally ignorant of either, decided to buy a Mac to find out what all the raving was about. I wasn't unhappy using Windows or having any major problems causing me to want to switch, I was simply curious about OS X and why Mac users rave about it so much.

I bought a 2009 2Ghz C2D Mac Mini and used it pretty extensively for a few months and I have to say that I don't understand what is so great about OS X.

I hear people say that OS X is much more stable than Windows but I have no stability issues with my Win machines so that is a moot point to me. Of course there is the virus potential but I use the free AV software, AVG, and don't have any virus issues to speak of so, again, it's a moot point for me.

There's things I really don't care for in OS X. I don't like having the menu bar for every application at the top of the screen instead of the top of the application's window. I don't like that clicking on the red 'X' hides the window but doesn't close the app. I don't like that I can only resize a window from the bottom right corner of the window.

For the longest time I didn't like the Finder but couldn't put my finger on why until I finally realized it's because Finder lacks a Tree view which makes it harder to use than Windows Explorer. Without a Tree view I find it necessary to open a 2nd copy of Finder in order to copy files from a folder on a drive to another folder on the same drive or a different drive using drag & drop. If there is a Tree view option for Finder, please tell me how to invoke it!

I don't care for the Dock. I think it is ugly and intrusive, taking up too much screen real estate. I know it can be resized but I still don't like it. BTW, I chuckle when people say Win 7 copied the Dock. How is that? Win 7 uses Quick Launch which has been around in Windows since at least Win 2000. MS did make the mistake of making the default icon size in Win 7 huge and ugly like the Dock but thankfully it can be customized. Quick launch is off to the side and much less intrusive, IMO, than the Dock so I like it better.

Now, I realize that my main "problem" is that I am used to the way I have been doing things in Windows all these years and I'm set in my ways. I am not looking to start a fight or an argument of which OS is better. I am trying to state my honest opinion of some reasons why I don't think OS X is a good fit for ME.
 

cmvsm

macrumors 6502a
Nov 12, 2004
784
0
Hmm..thought this was going to be a constructive post, but turns out that it could go into either the 'Who Cares' or 'Go back to Windows' basket.
 

epmatsw

macrumors member
Jun 18, 2007
78
1
For the tree view at least, I think there's an option in Finder (along with the default, list and coverflow views). There's 4 connected buttons in the toolbar, and if you click on the one that looks like a divided rectangle [||], it gives you what I think you're looking for.
 

Corrode

macrumors 6502a
Dec 26, 2008
988
2,111
Calgary, AB
You're not gonna get any sympathy on this board.

Go back to Windows then. (Says me and 100 others. Watch...)
 

GoCubsGo

macrumors Nehalem
Feb 19, 2005
35,741
146
Then turn on a heater.

But really, I get the reasons people cannot adapt to Windows or OS X (linux etc), but what is the point of this post if not to start some sort of debate? The OS debate seems like one of the oldest debates of all time and really all your post says to me is that OS X isn't for you (because you say so) and that you're bored. Move on, it's ok. OS X is not for everyone, I know it was weird for me but I adapted quickly and frankly I use windows at work and often wonder why completing some tasks is like taking three trains to cross the street.

An alternative is you can start a blog and hope people subscribe to it.
 

striatedglutes

macrumors 6502
Feb 22, 2009
414
0
USA
If you don't like it, you simply don't like it. No big deal.

In simplest terms, the dock is a combination of the pre-win7 quick launch and task bar running application panels (I don't know what else to call them?). The reason people say windows 7 copied the dock is because it got rid of the running application panels and merged them into the quick launch icons just like the dock does. They behave relatively the same way now for launching apps and keeping track of open apps (excluding expose and peek and stuff like that).

I think docks have been around since NeXTSTEP, but don't quote me.
 

CTSxViper

macrumors regular
Mar 8, 2005
106
0
Hanover PA
Well it's an honest opinion. But you won't sway me. I love my new IMac 27" Core I5 and OSX to me is simply the best. Good luck!
 

flopticalcube

macrumors G4
Some of your criticisms are valid, others are simply due to the fact that you are used to doing things a certain way for a very long time and a lot of that takes time to get undone. If you are not willing to invest the time, then you should return to what you know.
 

applelicious

macrumors member
Nov 17, 2009
73
0
New York, NY
I hear people say that OS X is much more stable than Windows but I have no stability issues with my Win machines so that is a moot point to me. Of course there is the virus potential but I use the free AV software, AVG, and don't have any virus issues to speak of so, again, it's a moot point for me.
These points are exactly why I switched from Win. If my Win crashes/freezes to the point where I am getting a bit frustrated, this is enough for me to switch so I don't get frustrated and enjoy computing. I do not want to download additional software to pretect me from viruses. If OS can do it and do it well, then it is worth it for me. I guess it just comes down to preferrence. If you don't mind these things or they don't bother you or just simply don't happen on your PCs then yes, I can see how you can't find value in Mac OS
 

Faalkor

macrumors newbie
Nov 24, 2009
17
0
I was an exclusive Windows user until June or July of this year and I still use Windows at work. I agree with 2 of your complaints, the X to minimize and re-size are poorly designed. Why isn't there a maximize button??? Is it wrong to want an application to take up the entire screen?

Over time I have grown to appreciate OSX and don't foresee myself going back to Windows.
 

strollin

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 28, 2009
2
0
For the tree view at least, I think there's an option in Finder (along with the default, list and coverflow views). There's 4 connected buttons in the toolbar, and if you click on the one that looks like a divided rectangle [||], it gives you what I think you're looking for.
I've tried every one of those buttons but they only change the view on the right hand side of the Finder. The Tree view I'm looking for would need to apply to the left hand side of the Finder so you could grab a file from a folder on the right side and drag it over to a folder listed on the left side. The left side of the Finder only lists available drives and doesn't allow drilling down into folders within those drives.
 

Gov98

macrumors newbie
Aug 27, 2009
27
0
I can relate to the OP here, my wife got a MacBook Air, which admittedly is a beautiful piece of machinery, but in terms of using OSX, I haven't found a benefit.

I think that the Imacs look great and would love to get one, but the more I use OSX the more I think that I would just wipe OSX and load up Windows 7.

It's also humorous to me, because you read so much "It just works" and then you see everyone say you need applecare, the other issues. Look Apple makes great products we have 2 iphones and a MacBook Air, but there's no need to make them those who can do no wrong.

My wife and I did buy Snow Leopard for the Air after released, and I didn't (although didn't use 10.5 much before as we got the air about the time 10.6 was released) notice much if any difference.
 

Pressure

macrumors 601
May 30, 2006
4,034
284
Denmark
#1 rule of switching: Forget everything you know about Windows.

Everything else is force of habit of how you used to work. You don't like, good for you. You like it, good for you. Either way, it is about what you prefer, not what we think.
 

applelicious

macrumors member
Nov 17, 2009
73
0
New York, NY
It's also humorous to me, because you read so much "It just works" and then you see everyone say you need applecare, the other issues.
I beleive people get AppleCare mainly for hardware related issues since fixing them is what drives the cost. When you hear a saying "it just works" I am pretty sure it relates to OS just working without any hick-ups, but I might be wrong. This is just what I thought everytime I heard that phrase.
 

knewsom

macrumors 6502a
Jun 9, 2005
949
0
There's things I really don't care for in OS X. I don't like having the menu bar for every application at the top of the screen instead of the top of the application's window. I don't like that clicking on the red 'X' hides the window but doesn't close the app. I don't like that I can only resize a window from the bottom right corner of the window.
Often in Windows, in order to close an app, you have to use Task Manager to actually end the process. There is no sort of indication in the GUI that the program has not closed, even if the window is gone. At least in OSX you DO have said indication, in the dock, and in the app-switcher. There are differences to get used to - like hitting "quit" or command-q. One of the biggest hurdles most Windows users have when they migrate to OSX is getting used to using the KEYBOARD to do things rather than just the mouse. Once you get used to using keyboard commands, it's MUCH more productive. If you're used to using them in Windows, generally just replace the "control" key with the "command" key, which is conveniently located under your left thumb, making it very easy and ergonomic to use. Having the menu bar on top of the screen increases window real-estate, eliminates redundancy, and increases consistency across the user experience. This is simply better, though you are not used to it. Give it time, you will be.

For the longest time I didn't like the Finder but couldn't put my finger on why until I finally realized it's because Finder lacks a Tree view which makes it harder to use than Windows Explorer. Without a Tree view I find it necessary to open a 2nd copy of Finder in order to copy files from a folder on a drive to another folder on the same drive or a different drive using drag & drop. If there is a Tree view option for Finder, please tell me how to invoke it!
You can also copy and paste in the Finder, just like in Windows Explorer. Use the Columns view, or drag and drop to the locations on the left. Holding it in place will open the new location allowing you to navigate through the file system without using the columns view. But I like the columns view. Awesome feature. Being ABLE to open a new window in the finder, and easily, is a nice feature, IMHO. Makes managing files much easier.

I don't care for the Dock. I think it is ugly and intrusive, taking up too much screen real estate. I know it can be resized but I still don't like it. BTW, I chuckle when people say Win 7 copied the Dock. How is that? Win 7 uses Quick Launch which has been around in Windows since at least Win 2000. MS did make the mistake of making the default icon size in Win 7 huge and ugly like the Dock but thankfully it can be customized. Quick launch is off to the side and much less intrusive, IMO, than the Dock so I like it better.
In addition to being able to resize and reposition it, at least you can hide the dock, recovering your screen real-estate.

Now, I realize that my main "problem" is that I am used to the way I have been doing things in Windows all these years and I'm set in my ways. I am not looking to start a fight or an argument of which OS is better. I am trying to state my honest opinion of some reasons why I don't think OS X is a good fit for ME.
I think that most of your problems are because A, you're not used to it yet, and B, because you haven't yet learned to make the OS work for you. Try the things I've mentioned, and give it some more time. You'll come around just fine.

FWIW, I've just installed Win7 on my Hack, and have actually been pretty pleased with it, but I haven't needed to do any real WORK yet. For basic stuff, windows is fine. There are the nagging annoyances, like I've mentioned, but when you look at total user experience, consistency across applications, and accessibility of apps, utilities, etc, OSX clearly shines. Like I said, give it time. If a lifelong Mac User (Since 1986), if I can figure out how to use windows and not be utterly miserable, surely you can do the reverse.
 

jonwd7

macrumors member
Nov 19, 2009
58
0
There's things I really don't care for in OS X. I don't like having the menu bar for every application at the top of the screen instead of the top of the application's window. I don't like that clicking on the red 'X' hides the window but doesn't close the app.
It's called "application-centric" look it up. The concept is much more pleasing to me than "window-centric" which Windows currently is, but are currently changing (more on that lower down)...

EDIT: Also, there is a great article comparing the differences between application-centric and window-centric, and why Windows basically loses. It also shows where the concept can break down, like in Microsoft's OWN PRODUCT (Office)... And how Office treats windows vs applications. I'm trying to find it, but it's hard to remember where... :)

For the longest time I didn't like the Finder but couldn't put my finger on why until I finally realized it's because Finder lacks a Tree view which makes it harder to use than Windows Explorer. Without a Tree view I find it necessary to open a 2nd copy of Finder in order to copy files from a folder on a drive to another folder on the same drive or a different drive using drag & drop. If there is a Tree view option for Finder, please tell me how to invoke it!
List view has trees you can expand. You can expand them as much as you want. Not sure why you don't see this. Column view can work for this too. Two windows works great too. What works best is getting Path Finder from CocoaTech. It's an amazing piece of software. There is also Finder's very simple-to-use Copy/Paste... Then delete the source.

EDIT: Also, if you right click on the top of the Finder window and click "Customize Toolbar" it's a nice option to have the "Path" button there. It doesn't help in your Cut/Paste case exactly but it makes Finder slightly more functional. I would still suggest to try out Path Finder though. I use it 95% of the time now.

I don't care for the Dock. I think it is ugly and intrusive, taking up too much screen real estate. I know it can be resized but I still don't like it. BTW, I chuckle when people say Win 7 copied the Dock. How is that? Win 7 uses Quick Launch which has been around in Windows since at least Win 2000. MS did make the mistake of making the default icon size in Win 7 huge and ugly like the Dock but thankfully it can be customized. Quick launch is off to the side and much less intrusive, IMO, than the Dock so I like it better.
Windows 7 did copy the Dock. I'll tell you why. They've made a vital shift to make Windows application-centric for the very first time. You will notice that it is NOT a "Quick Launch" at all, as in previous versions. It has application options upon right-click, notifications (IE 8 shows file progress, when files are complete, etc), and thumbnail previews sure seems to be a lot like the Dock Exposé if you ask me. ALSO, you will note that clicking on the IE 8 or Firefox icon again, for instance, does not open up a second window. These things all contribute to a pretty key shift from the Quick Launch of previous generations, because the icon is now treated like an application.

And these changes most definitely show how Windows 7 has ended up replicating the Dock inside windows.
 

dsnort

macrumors 68000
Jan 28, 2006
1,904
68
In persona non grata
I agree with 2 of your complaints, the X to minimize and re-size are poorly designed. Why isn't there a maximize button??? Is it wrong to want an application to take up the entire screen?
This bothered me as well when I first switched. Now, however, when I go back to a windows machine, I find full screen apps to be annoying.

Go figure.
 

kate-willbury

macrumors 6502a
Feb 14, 2009
684
0
tons of things annoy on me on mac osx. the dock is definitely one. its the most rudimentary and useless task switcher/app launcher ever. i also find expose to be a poor mans solution to real task / program management.

finder is the worst file viewing system as well. i can't believe theres no actual way to CUT and paste without having to drag and drop files between windows. i guess this is good for newbie computer users but by god is it ever annoying to anyone that actually does real work on a computer.

i still haven't found any real use for things like 'stacks' and other random eye candy that serve no productive purpose whatsoever.

i'm also generally pretty underwhelmed with the whole 'mac experience'. my macbook pro is now just my general internet surfing machine for menial low-brow computer tasks. my pc is still my real workhorse.

i started off in dos shell 5.0/win 3.1 days and love trying out new things. i warmed up to red hat/ubuntu no problem. for some reason mac osx just doesn't do anything for me at all and is incredibly overhyped. for now i boot into windows 7 via bootcamp more than snow leopard for sure.
 

chrono1081

macrumors 604
Jan 26, 2008
7,658
1,778
Isla Nublar
Its not for everyone. Some people have a hard time getting used to different things.

That being said I could never go back to windows but maybe thats because I'm a PC technician and see many many problems daily.
 

topmounter

macrumors 68020
Jun 18, 2009
2,261
430
FEMA Region VIII
I switched almost two years ago and it did take me a few days to get competent in OS X and a few months to get as comfortable as I was in WinXP (I never got comfortable with Vista Edition). I switched because of Ve and while Win7 is a definite improvement, it wasn't anything that would get me to consider going back to Windows as my OS of choice. I still maintain a WinXP box for occasional gaming and run XP in Parallels for the Zune Software.
 

Kebabselector

macrumors 68030
May 25, 2007
2,839
1,167
Birmingham, UK
After 3 years I still hate finder*, but I'm very happy with the rest of the OS X/Mac package.

At least the OP has tried it and it seems as if it's not for him. One advantage you have is you'll loose less money selling a 2nd hand Mac than you would with a PC.



*It just doesn't seem to work like XP Explorer does.
 

epmatsw

macrumors member
Jun 18, 2007
78
1
I've tried every one of those buttons but they only change the view on the right hand side of the Finder. The Tree view I'm looking for would need to apply to the left hand side of the Finder so you could grab a file from a folder on the right side and drag it over to a folder listed on the left side. The left side of the Finder only lists available drives and doesn't allow drilling down into folders within those drives.
In Columns view (the one I mentioned before), you can drill down into drives or folders in the left area. Or at least you can in Snow Leopard, can't confirm in Leopard or Tiger.
 

ljonesj

macrumors 6502a
Oct 20, 2009
944
63
Kingsport TN
i adapted over fairly quickly from my windows machine and customized how my mini opened files its taken awhile to get use to it but i love it.
 

mrsir2009

macrumors 604
Sep 17, 2009
7,505
156
Melbourne, Australia
You're not gonna get any sympathy on this board.

Go back to Windows then. (Says me and 100 others. Watch...)
Yes, if you don't like Mac OSX you can go back to Windows. Some of us like OSX and some of us don't. I personally like OSX better, but if you don't like it you can go back to Windows.... Simple:

I like Mac OSX = I stay with Mac OSX
I don't like Mac OSX = I go back to Windows and stay with Windows
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.