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Instead of trying to compare pictures that were taken on 2 different days of subjects that were in different places and you taking the pics from different spots, could you have both phones with you next time and take pics that are almost the same.(no zoom etc) That would make for a better comparison.
 
I'm really impressed with the iPhone's camera. Thing's really improved with the iPhone 7 & the X & Xs have always given me great results.

Low light has always been the weak point with any iPhone but the Xs has given me some impressive shots & videos at things like concerts. Daytime shots have been nothing short of exceptional.

If people upload their photos to social media then they are compressed & have the life sucked out of them which is why they always look terrible, especially on any platform Facebook owns.
 
My photos on my max look okay (sometimes impressive) until I zoom-in or view on my tv. At some point it all goes to s*** and looks like it came from a budget lens. I think iPhones have high end looks/build with midrange specification tbh.
 
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It's all down to the awful auto processing IMO, Use Halide like I said and compare the default auto processed image to the unprocessed RAW file...SO MUCH more detail, no horrible painting like effect, no skin smoothing etc!
 
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I'm really impressed with the iPhone's camera. Thing's really improved with the iPhone 7 & the X & Xs have always given me great results.

Low light has always been the weak point with any iPhone but the Xs has given me some impressive shots & videos at things like concerts. Daytime shots have been nothing short of exceptional.

If people upload their photos to social media then they are compressed & have the life sucked out of them which is why they always look terrible, especially on any platform Facebook owns.

Daytime/outdoor shots on my xs max are really super nice, even with lots of motion. This is definitely the cameras strong point. For all of you trying to justify the camera with outdoor shots, from my very first post I said this was not the issue. My issue is with moderate to low lighting situations. It's not like this is the only bad picture, I probably have dozens of crappy, grainy pictures from my iphone just like this.

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Instead of trying to compare pictures that were taken on 2 different days of subjects that were in different places and you taking the pics from different spots, could you have both phones with you next time and take pics that are almost the same.(no zoom etc) That would make for a better comparison.

I will try to do this over the weekend, but my instructor is already eyeing me from taking so many pictures lol. It will be good to get 2 pictures with 100% the same conditions.
 
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Cut the crap, stop trying to make a deceptive overlay. You simply need to count the mats. In the iphone picture the center of the subjects is on the 3rd mat, in the pixel picture the center of the subjects is right where the 3rd and 4th mat meet. If you'd like I can measure this next time I'm in class, but I'd estimate it's probably about 2-3 feet at the most, or 1/2 to 3/4 of a mat. Subjects were also closer to the far wall, giving them less light as well in the pixel picture, as well as being farther away from the side bay windows where I was taking the picture, and being more hidden behind a solid wall further blocking light from those side bay windows. As noted the pixel camera was farther back, zooming more (approx 19% more zoom) and had less light (approx 11% less light), giving the iphone multiple advantages. You are just grasping at straws now to prove your point when in reality the distance is "negligible" as you say. I've roughly drawn where the mats are, you can see the seams so there is no cheating. I also can't see why I can't rely on the exif data if that was the data representing what the brightness was at the moment the picture was taken, not sure what 10-20 minutes has to do with it.

As for viewing the pictures as negligible I can't argue with you there, I'll simply let those cropped pictures I posted before speak for themselves. If they were "negligible" then you would not be able to tell them apart, which is painfully and obviously not the case. Your relying on a smartphone camera for good pictures has nothing to do with this, simply put for $1000+ the iphones pictures should AT LEAST be as good as the pixel's, and arguably better since the pixel is cheaper. That is subjective and how I perceive the value for my purchase and I don't blame you if you disagree as we are entitled to our own perception of value. How you cannot see that insane level of graininess is beyond me, although the pixel does have some blur on close inspection there is very little graininess. Heck you can barely make out the instructors hand or my daughters head because of the graininess.

Look, I understand you are trying to "educate" me, but you are incorrect. Not for what you are describing, I'm not arguing that and am not disagreeing, but you are dead wrong in the difference in quality of the pictures. If you want to say both pictures are not good then I can't argue with your opinion, and yes most likely both pictures are "bad", but to say there is negligible difference in quality is just sheer dishonesty, you just need to open your eyes. What's most telling is that your 2 arguments strangely cancel each other out. If the lighting makes one picture better then it's not a negligible difference, you are perceiving a difference in quality, and vice versa. I don't have an issue laying a bit of blame on the lighting, but I could also lay blame for a lot of other things like the pixel having more of a zoom, less light, farther away, etc. If I were to go in and stage everything 100% to your satisfaction I'll bet the pixel picture would STILL trounce the iphone picture, but then you would concoct some theory about the position of the moon or how the angle of the feet changes the lighting. But it all boils down to just nitpicking little things to make your point. Conversely instead of throwing minutiae and excuses I simply have posted the pictures and let them speak for themselves, no argument really required.

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My overlay is not "deceptive." I literally lined the mats up on the back wall, the floor, and matched the logo on the side wall. And then I reduced the opacity of the iphone image slightly to show how it lined up. You want to hate the iPhone camera? Fine. But you also asked how you could make the iPhone images better, and there have been lots of suggestions for you, but you don't want to learn to shoot raw. Fine. But don't blame it ALL on the camera, when the fault is not ALL from the camera. That's all I'm saying.
 
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My overlay is not "deceptive." I literally lined the mats up on the back wall, the floor, and matched the logo on the side wall. And then I reduced the opacity of the iphone image slightly to show how it lined up. You want to hate the iPhone camera? Fine. But you also asked how you could make the iPhone images better, and there have been lots of suggestions for you, but you don't want to learn to shoot raw. Fine. But don't blame it ALL on the camera, when the fault is not ALL from the camera. That's all I'm saying.

No I didn't initially ask how I could make the iphone images better, I asked why a $1000+ phone takes such crappy pictures in moderate to low light conditions. It's really difficult in many impromptu situations to do any kind of setup, and this is where it's nice to just pop out my phone and take a picture. If I tried to setup the shot, play with settings, etc then I would lose the picture and end up with nothing. I fully understand that if I just point and shoot the results will not be great, but the reality is that many times that's the only choice we have. With all that said it's clear how much better the pixel pictures are and my one and only evolving point was that for $1000+ I would expect at least that same level of quality, but am not seeing it in my pictures. When conditions are almost identical it's not difficult to come to the conclusion that it IS the camera. Sure other factors definitely affect the image quality, I'm definitely not arguing with you on that, but once again both pictures were point and shoot so those factors were equal.
 
The problem is physics. The sensors are so tiny in these phone cameras that you can't escape noise. Only thing you could do is some noise reduction in post.
 
As the title is such a "cry baby" I will address it as such. As others mentioned here - don't blame the gear, blame the photographer. That is valid in your case also. You are using smartphone that is very capable of great pictures. It won't be DSLR quality but it will produce amazing pictures if you know what to do.
You shouldn't come here with that title blaming the gear. First and foremost blame yourself.
Why don't you instead go to photography section and ask how to improve your skill or what you could have done better instead of this?
You are 70s 80s kids so you should be the one to blame yourself as 'us' grew up in that mentality (unlike millennials).
So, watch and learn. Try new things etc. Just don't blame the gear as the rule is - amazing photographer will take amazing picture with any gear. Its really that simple.



Sorry in advance for the rant here, but I'm just really disappointed in the cameras on the iphones. This isn't a recent complaint, but it seems like they are taking worse pictures every generation. I'm used to iphones taking horrendous pictures if lighting is even a little bit dim. But I've been noticing poorer quality even with pictures taken with optimal conditions. This picture is my daughter at practice, there are bay windows all around her and it's a perfect day outside, lighting couldn't be much better. You can see how grainy the picture is, it's a shame that these memories will be forever captured in a terrible picture. It's not only this picture, I took a bunch of them as she was promoted and I wanted to capture the moment. Every single picture came out grainy like this, the faces would be overexposed and have detail washed out, among other issues. I feel comfortable in saying a point and shoot crappy mini digital camera from 15 years ago would have taken better pictures.

I have downloaded a few apps such as Night Camera and others and have been playing around with shutter speeds, light sensor, etc. These apps are fairly complicated and I really don't want to have to figure out how to use them, and preliminary results show these apps don't make much of a difference anyway. What burns me is that I have a Pixel 3 XL sitting at home that I don't use because I highly prefer iOS, but I always kick myself for not taking the Pixel to events where I want good pictures.

I've read a few unsubstantiated rumors that Apple is finally releasing a camera for the 11 series that functions well in low light. But seeing how crappy their pictures are even in good lighting I have my doubts that Apple can pull it off, or that there will be any improvement with optimal pictures much less low light ones. Don't get me wrong, I've taken really good pictures with iphones in perfect lighting conditions, but that's the exception not the rule. For reference this is on a XS Max and I have swapped it out to make sure it wasn't a hardware issue.


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As the title is such a "cry baby" I will address it as such. As others mentioned here - don't blame the gear, blame the photographer. That is valid in your case also. You are using smartphone that is very capable of great pictures. It won't be DSLR quality but it will produce amazing pictures if you know what to do.
You shouldn't come here with that title blaming the gear. First and foremost blame yourself.
Why don't you instead go to photography section and ask how to improve your skill or what you could have done better instead of this?
You are 70s 80s kids so you should be the one to blame yourself as 'us' grew up in that mentality (unlike millennials).
So, watch and learn. Try new things etc. Just don't blame the gear as the rule is - amazing photographer will take amazing picture with any gear. Its really that simple.

Nope, I'll blame the gear and have posted proof to that effect. I have greatly improved my photography skills by simply taking the Pixel with me when I need to get good indoor pictures, problem solved. I'm also not sure how a title can be a "cry baby", but oh well. Anyway thank you, even though the advice is useless.
 
Watch the product vs sales people interview with Steve Jobs. He explains it. Making a better product/camera isnt going to increase the number of sales of iPhones if the company is already number 1 in sales. It explains why Jony left and Phil is still at apple.

 
Distance, lighting (direction and intensity), point of focus, etc. all affect the quality of a photo.
Some important rules:
1) NEVER ZOOM.
2) Use the Telephoto lens only when there's enough lighting.
3) The built-in flash has a distance limit. If you are too far, it becomes useless and sometimes negatively affects the quality of your photos. Use a portable light source when taking photos in a low light environment.
 
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Nope, I'll blame the gear and have posted proof to that effect. I have greatly improved my photography skills by simply taking the Pixel with me when I need to get good indoor pictures, problem solved. I'm also not sure how a title can be a "cry baby", but oh well. Anyway thank you, even though the advice is useless.
Well, in that case its ok. You won't understand - but please do listen to others if I am no good and maybe try to pick up a theme. Then from that theme try to analyze whether or not there is a point to be made.
Also, you are old enough to understand that the title text is a "cry baby" one. Regardless, good luck improving your skills as that is what you need the most to take better pictures. The rest is just excuses
 
Well, in that case its ok. You won't understand - but please do listen to others if I am no good and maybe try to pick up a theme. Then from that theme try to analyze whether or not there is a point to be made.
Also, you are old enough to understand that the title text is a "cry baby" one. Regardless, good luck improving your skills as that is what you need the most to take better pictures. The rest is just excuses

Thanks, but still continued useless advice or should I say excuses from you, but knock yourself out. I haven't stated any excuses, I simply put the pictures up and let them speak for themselves. As for improving skills I've already done that by choosing the right tool for the job. All this talk of improving skills for taking pictures goes right out the window when it's your kid and you have half a second to capture the moment or lose it forever, we're not talking about posing pictures in a studio. Otherwise no disrespect intended if English isn't your first language, but I'm having difficulty figuring out what you are trying to say.
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Watch the product vs sales people interview with Steve Jobs. He explains it. Making a better product/camera isnt going to increase the number of sales of iPhones if the company is already number 1 in sales. It explains why Jony left and Phil is still at apple.


I can't deny financial motivations for sure and this makes a ton of sense.
 
All this talk of improving skills for taking pictures goes right out the window when it's your kid and you have half a second to capture the moment or lose it forever, we're not talking about posing pictures in a studio.

Photography knowledge, skill, and planning can go a long way in taking pics of moving objects, not just portrait photos. Do you think professional sports photographers just buy the best camera and snap away?
 
All this talk of improving skills for taking pictures goes right out the window when it's your kid and you have half a second to capture the moment or lose it forever, we're not talking about posing pictures in a studio.

I have thousands of photos of my kids that are not blurry or blown out because I took the time to learn photography and how to use my gear. That includes my iPhone.

In fact I learned photography BECAUSE I didn’t want to lose it forever.

You seem to have everything backwards and still are arguing with people who are giving you good, solid advice.
 
Photography knowledge, skill, and planning can go a long way in taking pics of moving objects, not just portrait photos. Do you think professional sports photographers just buy the best camera and snap away?

If they need to take an impromptu picture of their kid doing something and only have a split second to do it, then YES I do think that's EXACTLY what they do.
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I have thousands of photos of my kids that are not blurry or blown out because I took the time to learn photography and how to use my gear. That includes my iPhone.

In fact I learned photography BECAUSE I didn’t want to lose it forever.

You seem to have everything backwards and still are arguing with people who are giving you good, solid advice.

And I have dozens and dozens of pictures from my iphone that look horrendous, mainly indoor pictures. I'm glad that you learned to take good pictures on your iphone, I went another route and just use my Pixel 3 and get much better pictures in those conditions. I never disagreed that learning how to take good pictures wasn't a bad thing at all, simply that the point and shoot capabilities of the iphone are terrible in certain conditions (and excellent in others). I've never eschewed your advice, we are just talking about 2 different scenarios and you keep trying to push your scenario onto my use case. I actually have nothing backwards, the pictures are there for you to view again. I still don't understand why it's so difficult to admit that a non iphone camera does a better job in some circumstances, it's like you are clinging to this "learn skills" argument like your life depended on Apple's approval.
 
Thanks, but still continued useless advice or should I say excuses from you, but knock yourself out. I haven't stated any excuses, I simply put the pictures up and let them speak for themselves. As for improving skills I've already done that by choosing the right tool for the job. All this talk of improving skills for taking pictures goes right out the window when it's your kid and you have half a second to capture the moment or lose it forever, we're not talking about posing pictures in a studio. Otherwise no disrespect intended if English isn't your first language, but I'm having difficulty figuring out what you are trying to say.
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I can't deny financial motivations for sure and this makes a ton of sense.
Its ok. And no, english is not my first language (nor second), its actually my 3rd language to be precise.
Regardless, I think I (or mostly others) told you what is the best so no need to repeat it. I wish we could be in a pub having a drink and I would explain to you the rest :)
 
The iPhone 6s was the last major leap in picture quality. Everything since has just been a marginal improvement year after year.
False. The A12 brings another leap with smart HDR. It’s a huge improvement over the A9-A11.

Hopefully the next thing Apple tackles is low light.
 
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