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hajime

macrumors 604
Original poster
Jul 23, 2007
7,855
1,290
I tried the keyboard of the new 13" MBP as the 15" was not available in store. I don't like it. I prefer the one we had before. Since Apple is so obsessive with thinness, do you think they will continue to use the keyboard of the 2016 models or a small variation of it with low travel on the 2017 models?
If not, I may need to choose Lenovo Thinkpad or Surface Book.
 
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DFTU101

macrumors member
May 16, 2008
94
0
I tried the keyboard of the new 13" MBP as the 15" was not available in store. I don't like it. I prefer the one we had before. Since Apple is so obsessive with thinness, do you think they will continue to use the keyboard of the 2016 models or a small variation of it with low travel on the 2017 models?
If not, I may need to choose Lenovo Thinkpad or Surface Book.
[doublepost=1479908240][/doublepost]
Yeah, that's gonna be the keyboard from now on. If you want a new computer your choices are:

-buy a previous model Apple laptop (can probably get a discount from various websites) if you want to stay in the Apple ecosystem

or

go with Windows PC. The thinkpad is truly one of the best laptop keyboards out there. I'd love for Apple to have such a keyboard but I'll put up with the keyboard to stay in the Apple operating system.
[doublepost=1479908371][/doublepost]
Yeah, that's gonna be the keyboard from now on. If you want a new computer your choices are:

-buy a previous model Apple laptop (can probably get a discount from various websites) if you want to stay in the Apple ecosystem

or

go with Windows PC. The thinkpad is truly one of the best laptop keyboards out there. I'd love for Apple to have such a keyboard but I'll put up with the keyboard to stay in the Apple operating system.
 

Obi Wan Kenobi

macrumors 6502a
Mar 9, 2011
504
341
London, UK
I tried the keyboard of the new 13" MBP as the 15" was not available in store. I don't like it. I prefer the one we had before. Since Apple is so obsessive with thinness, do you think they will continue to use the keyboard of the 2016 models or a small variation of it with low travel on the 2017 models?
If not, I may need to choose Lenovo Thinkpad or Surface Book.
Alas No.

We now have the new Apple laptop line up for the forseeable future. And it's the MB, and the MBP.

The MBA had no refresh last month, and is on its way out. I think the current machine will be around for a year or two, but it has essentially been replaced and improved on in every respect by the MB and the MBP save for two factors. 1) The price, and 2) the keyboard. I really like the MBA's keyboard. I much preferred the old prices.

I suspect when the new iMacs come out next year, they too will have a keyboard like that on the MBPs, and probably a touch bar, too.
 

hajime

macrumors 604
Original poster
Jul 23, 2007
7,855
1,290
Alas No.

We now have the new Apple laptop line up for the forseeable future. And it's the MB, and the MBP.

The MBA had no refresh last month, and is on its way out. I think the current machine will be around for a year or two, but it has essentially been replaced and improved on in every respect by the MB and the MBP save for two factors. 1) The price, and 2) the keyboard. I really like the MBA's keyboard. I much preferred the old prices.

I suspect when the new iMacs come out next year, they too will have a keyboard like that on the MBPs, and probably a touch bar, too.


Thanks. Given that Apple does not upgrade the laptop often these days, we are then stuck with this keyboard design for 2-3 years. So, either I have to buy a previous generation of MBP 15" or choose another manufacturer?
 

chabig

macrumors G4
Sep 6, 2002
11,320
9,011
You have two other choices not yet mentioned:

1) Take to time to adjust to the keyboard. Trying it out for a few minutes in the store doesn't count as a serious attempt.
2) Carry an slim external keyboard, like Apple's Magic Keyboard.
 
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Zazoh

macrumors 68000
Jan 4, 2009
1,511
1,118
San Antonio, Texas
Take to time to adjust to the keyboard. Trying it out for a few minutes in the store doesn't count as a serious attempt.

Sage advice. I am used to it 3 weeks in, so much so, an older keyboard seems mushy.

The Apple OS and ecosystem are so different to me and advantageous over any other system, I'd type by blowing through a straw over switching back to Microsoft. And, I was an avid MS user since the beginning.
 

merkinmuffley

macrumors 6502a
Dec 3, 2010
615
582
I wanted to like this keyboard. It might be version 2 of that crappy keyboard in the 12 inch Macbook - but it's still crappy. I tried them side by side with a 2016 MBP and a 2016 12 inch Macbook - I could not feel or see any difference. Apple needs to do better, if they don't want to offer us touch screen with a pen for input - then give us a decent keyboard and stop this "thinner is better" nonsense.
 
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Pupi

macrumors 6502
Apr 12, 2015
406
755
I hope Apple can figure out how to make it better.

Here’s my idea: give the keys more travel by letting them protrude a few millimetres over the top case, and when you close the lid, the display pushes them slightly down (but not enough to activate them).
 

hajime

macrumors 604
Original poster
Jul 23, 2007
7,855
1,290
Apple is not making computers to convenience the users. They are making "thin" computers to cause users troubles and make us to adapt to their products. Personally I don't want to carry an extra keyboard, extra adapters, etc.
 

Skald

macrumors member
Oct 20, 2008
60
2
California
Indecisive about whether or not to buy the 2016 15" rMBP, I tried it at an Apple store, hoping to be convinced one way or the other.

Since the store makes you stand while typing, the unusual orientation might make a test type inaccurate, of course. I was unable to sense whether the touch pad seemed too big (as some here have said) or good.

My question for you: are the keys really wobbly, or was that impression my mistake? I have been using a 2010 MBP for six years, so that is the keyboard I have as an experiential reference. The 2016 keys seemed to have significantly more side-to-side movement than my 2010 keys.
 

SkimPappa

macrumors member
Nov 23, 2016
78
132
I tried one out in Best Buy and didn't like it. I went with a windows laptop with an nvidia 1070 graphics card. Was ~ 1600 and is incredibly fast. After two days with it, windows 10 is driving me nuts, uninstalling all the bloat ware sucked. Although the computer had much better specs for way cheaper, it is much thicker, heavier and really bad battery life. Now I feel like I made a big of a mistake not buying the new MacBook Pro. (My old MacBook Pro stopped booting) I don't game, just felt like it should have had higher end hardware. I'm thinking about giving this one to my son and getting an older model MacBook Pro. - confused
 

Zazoh

macrumors 68000
Jan 4, 2009
1,511
1,118
San Antonio, Texas
Its odd, I just posted in another thread the trend of folks giving up the Apple ecosystem for the sake of hardware. I couldn't fathom switching out of the OS to go to another platform at this point -- and yes I fully understand Apple has me were they want me. ;-)
 

Obi Wan Kenobi

macrumors 6502a
Mar 9, 2011
504
341
London, UK
Thanks. Given that Apple does not upgrade the laptop often these days, we are then stuck with this keyboard design for 2-3 years. So, either I have to buy a previous generation of MBP 15" or choose another manufacturer?

Yes. I'm afraid so.

Apple is not making computers to convenience the users. They are making "thin" computers to cause users troubles and make us to adapt to their products. Personally I don't want to carry an extra keyboard, extra adapters, etc.

I don't like the idea of dongles either. But USB C is a huge improvement over USB B & A. It needs to come. But the transition period is going to be irritating and irksome.
 

nnoble

macrumors 6502
Jun 19, 2011
461
546
I soon got used to a computer keyboard after using a typewriter. Very few of us like change but it's here to stay - or just buy a bluetooth keyboard and choose one that suits you.
 

theluggage

macrumors 604
Jul 29, 2011
7,622
7,745
do you think they will continue to use the keyboard of the 2016 models or a small variation of it with low travel on the 2017 models?

I suspect that we'll see it rolled out across the range, possibly even with new external "magic keyboards"...

I have a long list of gripes about the new machines, but after I tried one in a shop, to my own surprise, I quickly crossed the keyboard off my hate list. So help me I quite liked it. Keyboards are always going to be a personal preference, and a laptop can only have one. I don't think there's going to be a clear "for" or "against" consensus against the keyboard.

I don't like the idea of dongles either. But USB C is a huge improvement over USB B & A. It needs to come. But the transition period is going to be irritating and irksome.

...or Apple could just have taken their existing Air and MacBook Pro ranges (which are already classic, well-liked designs), updated the CPU and GPU, replaced the existing TB2 ports with TB3/USB-C and kept the "legacy" ports (if you can call ports which are still featuring on other makers brand new models "legacy") for another year at least. The only justification for going exclusively USB C was that God had decreed the new models must be thinner.

People love the MacBook Air form factor, in particular. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
 

Obi Wan Kenobi

macrumors 6502a
Mar 9, 2011
504
341
London, UK
...or Apple could just have taken their existing Air and MacBook Pro ranges (which are already classic, well-liked designs), updated the CPU and GPU, replaced the existing TB2 ports with TB3/USB-C and kept the "legacy" ports (if you can call ports which are still featuring on other makers brand new models "legacy") for another year at least. The only justification for going exclusively USB C was that God had decreed the new models must be thinner.

People love the MacBook Air form factor, in particular. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
For my part, my friend, I completely agree with you.

An improved CPU and Retina screen is all the MBA needed. If USB C were to be added, and I can see how that would be a good idea, they could simply have replaced a USB B/A, port with a C port, and everyone would have been happy.
 

zhenya

macrumors 604
Jan 6, 2005
6,929
3,677
This is likely to be the keyboard for the foreseeable future. While I strongly believe that most people can get used to this keyboard, if you aren't willing to, either buy last year's model, which is hardly outdated at the moment, and see what happens in another 3-5 years when it's time to replace that, or buy a Thinkpad, which as you note, has the best keyboard you can get on a laptop. I will note that Lenovo's backlighting implementation is seriously lacking, though.
 

aloshka

macrumors 65816
Aug 30, 2009
1,437
744
Sage advice. I am used to it 3 weeks in, so much so, an older keyboard seems mushy.

Same, I can't stand the old keyboards. They don't have a satisfying click and feel like you are typing against rubber. Feel so mushy. Really hoping they will upgrade the magic keyboard or whatever it's called to the same keys. I spend about 10 hours a day behind the computer though and gone through hundreds of keyboards, a lot of which were mechanical, and I have to admit this and the ornata are my favorite keyboards ever. Loads of people agree. Lots don't.

Apple is not making computers to convenience the users. They are making "thin" computers to cause users troubles and make us to adapt to their products. Personally I don't want to carry an extra keyboard, extra adapters, etc.

I'd really recommend you give your money to a company that does care about your needs. Apple chose a target audience to satisfy and they are doing that. Sounds like you are no longer that audience. I really recommend the surface book btw, really nice keyboard you like if you like that mushy, but low travel keys.

I'm not a big apple advocate and after seeing reviews of the MBP decided to go with the surface. But before so, stopped by the Apple Store and tried the 15. Its lightness and thinness got to me. So easy to carry around, easy to shove into my backpack and ride to work. Fast, screen perfect. Enormous trackpad that can be clicked anywhere. Shallow yet satisfying clicky keyboard. All those things, not just specs and pports made me decide to buy a 15. If I wanted specs, there are really cheap but powerful laptop with numbers off the roof that you can buy.

Then again, I don't really have 50 peripherals to plugin. I use Bluetooth headphones, I don't use slow sd cards anymore, my external drives are USB C SSD, as I like speed and even use one drive to boot windows boot camp externally. Now possible since it's TB3. It has a reversible cable, so I can plug the drive into older computers if needed.

I don't like the idea of dongles either. But USB C is a huge improvement over USB B & A. It needs to come. But the transition period is going to be irritating and irksome.

I think apple in the past eased people in. USB 3 was backward compatible with 2. People truly think that apple came up with USB C. They didn't. But maybe people would not be so angry if they threw in a USB A port in there. But then people would want an SD slot, some would want Ethernet others would want to be able to just hook projectors at work and want a VGA port. Some still think bluray is important because they own libraries of movies and feel apple should change their product line to allow them to watch their movies.

But to your question, the short answer is ... yes the keyboard is sticking around. Based on personal and many many many reviewers views, the keyboard is really really good. Based on others, it sucks. If you hate the keyboard, can't get around that. Probably will have to go to a different manufacturer that uses the squishy style membranes, but if I had to guess, I'd say they will eventually start switching out too, so if you plan on keeping a laptop for 2-3 years, probably get something soon.

Just wondering what bothers you about the keyboard? The clicky sound? The travel? Do you like those huge mechanical keyboards that have 4mm travel? Do those feel more comfortable? Are you a touch typist? How fast do you type? How long did you try the keyboard for?
 

Fishrrman

macrumors Penryn
Feb 20, 2009
28,618
12,744
Prediction:

The 2016-style keyboard is "it" for the foreseeable future.

To make it "more like the old ones" would probably involve making the MacBook Pro -thicker- again, and they're not going to do that...
 

hajime

macrumors 604
Original poster
Jul 23, 2007
7,855
1,290
Same, I can't stand the old keyboards. They don't have a satisfying click and feel like you are typing against rubber. Feel so mushy. Really hoping they will upgrade the magic keyboard or whatever it's called to the same keys. I spend about 10 hours a day behind the computer though and gone through hundreds of keyboards, a lot of which were mechanical, and I have to admit this and the ornata are my favorite keyboards ever. Loads of people agree. Lots don't.



I'd really recommend you give your money to a company that does care about your needs. Apple chose a target audience to satisfy and they are doing that. Sounds like you are no longer that audience. I really recommend the surface book btw, really nice keyboard you like if you like that mushy, but low travel keys.

I'm not a big apple advocate and after seeing reviews of the MBP decided to go with the surface. But before so, stopped by the Apple Store and tried the 15. Its lightness and thinness got to me. So easy to carry around, easy to shove into my backpack and ride to work. Fast, screen perfect. Enormous trackpad that can be clicked anywhere. Shallow yet satisfying clicky keyboard. All those things, not just specs and pports made me decide to buy a 15. If I wanted specs, there are really cheap but powerful laptop with numbers off the roof that you can buy.

Then again, I don't really have 50 peripherals to plugin. I use Bluetooth headphones, I don't use slow sd cards anymore, my external drives are USB C SSD, as I like speed and even use one drive to boot windows boot camp externally. Now possible since it's TB3. It has a reversible cable, so I can plug the drive into older computers if needed.



I think apple in the past eased people in. USB 3 was backward compatible with 2. People truly think that apple came up with USB C. They didn't. But maybe people would not be so angry if they threw in a USB A port in there. But then people would want an SD slot, some would want Ethernet others would want to be able to just hook projectors at work and want a VGA port. Some still think bluray is important because they own libraries of movies and feel apple should change their product line to allow them to watch their movies.

But to your question, the short answer is ... yes the keyboard is sticking around. Based on personal and many many many reviewers views, the keyboard is really really good. Based on others, it sucks. If you hate the keyboard, can't get around that. Probably will have to go to a different manufacturer that uses the squishy style membranes, but if I had to guess, I'd say they will eventually start switching out too, so if you plan on keeping a laptop for 2-3 years, probably get something soon.

Just wondering what bothers you about the keyboard? The clicky sound? The travel? Do you like those huge mechanical keyboards that have 4mm travel? Do those feel more comfortable? Are you a touch typist? How fast do you type? How long did you try the keyboard for?


I heard that in tablet mode, the battery life of the surface book tablet is no more than 3 hours only. That will be a problem.
 

hajime

macrumors 604
Original poster
Jul 23, 2007
7,855
1,290
For over 10 years, I use a keyboard cover from moshi because the finger nails could scratch the keys. How about the keys on the MBP 2016? Are they scratch proof? Does adding a keyboard make it easier or more difficult to type?
 

Woyzeck

macrumors 6502
Nov 2, 2012
441
499
Well, I use the new MBP's keyboard now for a week and I really don't like it. It's hard to anticipate if I'll ever be able to adopt to its mechanics.

More typos and an awful loud sound. You'll be the most hated person in every conference room.

Those chicklet keyboards were worse than their predecessors, but the new Apple keyboards are even worse.

Compare that to the old Thinkpad keyboards - those were lovely.
 

Samuelsan2001

macrumors 604
Oct 24, 2013
7,729
2,153
Indecisive about whether or not to buy the 2016 15" rMBP, I tried it at an Apple store, hoping to be convinced one way or the other.

Since the store makes you stand while typing, the unusual orientation might make a test type inaccurate, of course. I was unable to sense whether the touch pad seemed too big (as some here have said) or good.

My question for you: are the keys really wobbly, or was that impression my mistake? I have been using a 2010 MBP for six years, so that is the keyboard I have as an experiential reference. The 2016 keys seemed to have significantly more side-to-side movement than my 2010 keys.

You are imagining things the new keyboards are specifically designed to have less side to side movement it's all in your head from an engineering point of view that's just not possible.

OP Apple are currently giving you until January to return their computers try one out for a few weeks if you don't like it return it.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,712
do you think they will continue to use the keyboard of the 2016
They will not abandon their baby, they designed and created the butterfly keyboard, they'll be using it every chance they get. So future laptops will have the butterfly keyboard and not the old model.
 

hajime

macrumors 604
Original poster
Jul 23, 2007
7,855
1,290
You are imagining things the new keyboards are specifically designed to have less side to side movement it's all in your head from an engineering point of view that's just not possible.

OP Apple are currently giving you until January to return their computers try one out for a few weeks if you don't like it return it.

When is the deadline for returning in January? Is this a special extended trial period? As far as I recall, people need to return Apple products in 10-14 days in order to get a full refund.
 
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