I don't think the Type-C port is making things easier

[1096bimu]

Theoretically type-c will be one port for everything, so you can also use one (or at least a bunch of one type) cable for everything.
But after upgrading from a 2013 MBP to an all-type-c machine, I don't see that ideal future happening any time soon. I'm not hating on the port I still think it simply looks way better than a bunch of ports with different shapes.

No we don't have one port since some ports don't support anything beyond USB2 (most Android phones), some ports support USB2 and video out (some Android phones), some support USB 3.0 only (some dongles), some support USB3.1 (good dongles) and other support TB3.
And then there are cables, they can support any of the above plus variable power capabilities ranging from 1A to 5A. So for cables you have 5x4=20 different possible combinations of data and power delivery capabilities.

Yes you've now got 4 different ports plus 20 different cables most of which are indistinguishable from each other unless you read the fine print on the package, some of which don't even have that fine print.

In fact I've simplified that a lot because for example it would seem that type-C with video out also has two different modes. You can have 2 data pairs for video and data each, or 4 data pairs all for video, the latter of which is required to support 4k@60hz. So for an USB type-C 3.1 GEN2 device you cannot have USB 3.0 data with 4k@60hz video, you only get USB2 data. But the dongle can have the other mode which gives USB 3.0 data plus 4k@30hz video. But if you have a TB3 dongle then it will support 4k@60hz x2 AND USB3.1 data.

And of course there is also the distinction between USB3.0 USB3.1 GEN1 and USB3.1GEN2

Did I mention all of the above have identical looking hardware? I mean at least I can see that an USB cable looks different from a DP cable and deduce that they are probably incompatible.

 

[turbineseaplane]

"It just works***"

*** usually, sometimes, maybe - depending on what unlabelled hardware port and cable you are using

 

[jerryk]

My experience with power delivery is it works well. The amount of power a device would like is communicated. The power source will adjust to give the required power or reject the request.

I was also worried about usb-c and cables but so far it has been a non-issue for me. I have one adapter and it meets 90% of my needs. I have second adapter the does 60hz 4K, but I have not yet needed it.

 

[LogicalApex]

USB C is the future and that's a good thing. As much as I find the transition we're in to be messy to navigate OEMs like Apple pushing USB C either exclusively or as a primary port gives accessory manufacturers more incentive to make USB C devices.

USB C is some complicated as it is aiming to radically simplify the mess the industry allowed USB to become. USB started out as a simple universal port (hence the name Universal Serial Bus) and it was on a solid path with the USB port on computers largely looking the same since its inception. But USB was developed before mobile devices became popular so you had a million hacks to USB to add support... Mini-USB, Micro-USB, Type-A, Type-B, etc. Then ultimate insanity was the connector for the first USB 3 supporting phones.

There will be a bit more pain in this transition as we're finally getting back to a universal connector. USB will never support all features everywhere, and really never has, but it will offer some support everywhere. Such as, you can still plug a MacBook Pro with USB C ports into a "normal" USB port and get standard USB power even though you can't get power delivery.

In 5 years, we'll be happy this transition was made and hopefully this ends up a lot like Ethernet where the connector stays the same for decades and we're able improve without needing new cables, chargers, and accessories all the time.

 

[upandown]

I think you're making it more complicated than it is. Buy an adapter and be done with it. I have a teeny tiny adapter I can plug in to any USB A cord. It works with everything. It's completely backwards compatible. If you only get USB2 out of it it's the device and not the macbook. Just buy the latest cables out there and you won't have a problem.

 

[1096bimu]

My experience with power delivery is it works well. The amount of power a device would like is communicated. The power source will adjust to give the required power or reject the request.

I was also worried about usb-c and cables but so far it has been a non-issue for me. I have one adapter and it meets 90% of my needs. I have second adapter the does 60hz 4K, but I have not yet needed it.

Yes the cables won't melt, I guess that's a plus. It's just that if you have a 2A cable and you don't know it, it can't even maintain the charge level on a 13" MBP at full power. And it's not like you can open a window to see the capabilities of the cable currently plugged in. You will have no idea why it's not charging properly.

I think you're making it more complicated than it is. Buy an adapter and be done with it. I have a teeny tiny adapter I can plug in to any USB A cord. It works with everything. It's completely backwards compatible. If you only get USB2 out of it it's the device and not the macbook. Just buy the latest cables out there and you won't have a problem.

I did, and it doesn't support 4k@60hz, the USB connections were unstable and even causes the system to freeze up.
Sure you can just buy ONLY TB3 cables, they support everything but cost 10x as much as a power only or 3.1 data only cable.

 

[AppleHaterLover]

"It just works***"

*** usually, sometimes, maybe - depending on what unlabelled hardware port and cable you are using

New slogan: Apple! It might work.
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Yes the cables won't melt, I guess that's a plus. It's just that if you have a 2A cable and you don't know it, it can't even maintain the charge level on a 13" MBP at full power. And it's not like you can open a window to see the capabilities of the cable currently plugged in. You will have no idea why it's not charging properly.


I did, and it doesn't support 4k@60hz, the USB connections were unstable and even causes the system to freeze up.
Sure you can just buy ONLY TB3 cables, they support everything but cost 10x as much as a power only or 3.1 data only cable.

I had the Multiport dongle and it did the trick just fine. You only need 1 dongle and that’s it.

 

[Hater]

Even my GoPro, which is USB-C compatible, only comes with a USB-A to USB-C cable...

So I can either buy another cable, or plug it directly into my older 2012 MBP. Guess which machine it gets plugged into.

 

[AppleHaterLover]

Even my GoPro, which is USB-C compatible, only comes with a USB-A to USB-C cable...

So I can either buy another cable, or plug it directly into my older 2012 MBP. Guess which machine it gets plugged into.

Doing your username justice eh?

 

[Glmnet1]

I'm all for usb-c but I feel like like Apple made a big step in that direction by including only usb-c on their laptops but, years later, still did not complete the transition.

There is still no usb-c chargers on the iPhone, iPad, Magic Trackpad, Magic Keyboard or on any of their chargers. I know there are advantages to lightning but it still goes against the concept of having a cable for everything when you start making exceptions. I also understand they can't stop including type A chargers yet but still... they could include both or offer the option but I guess it would cost them too much.

 

[AppleHaterLover]

I'm all for usb-c but I feel like like Apple made a big step in that direction by including only usb-c on their laptops but, years later, still did not complete the transition.

There is still no usb-c chargers on the iPhone, iPad, Magic Trackpad, Magic Keyboard or on any of their chargers. I know there are advantages to lightning but it still goes against the concept of having a cable for everything when you start making exceptions. I also understand they can't stop including type A chargers yet but still... they could include both or offer the option but I guess it would cost them too much.

I think USB-C cables are coming to the entire mobile family next month.

 

[Hater]

Doing your username justice eh?

Nope, just doing what normal people do - The thing that works. Demonstrating that no, the Type-C port is not making things easier, the premise of the entire thread.

You could argue that GoPro should include a USB-C to USB-C cable with their devices, but they don't for a reason, more people use USB-A. Yeah, I need to use a USB-C > USB-A converter to plug any of my Sony cameras in (although with them I just use the card reader), so either way it's just more convenient to use the '12

 

[deeddawg]

I did, and it doesn't support 4k@60hz, the USB connections were unstable and even causes the system to freeze up.

What brand name & model number?

The trouble is there's plenty of half-azzed crap in the marketplace.

 

[Fishrrman]

How many non-Apple laptops (and non-Apple desktops) are there "out there" that offer ONLY a USB-c port?

My guess (and it's ONLY "a guess") is that many (most?) non-Apple computers still offer at least one USB-a port.
And that in the "non-Apple world", USB-a is still the dominant player.

I think it's going to remain that way for a good while yet.

I predict USB-c will end up like firewire and thunderbolt -- a "niche technology" that never attains widespread adoption.

It's just too confusing for too many folks (as the OP outlined in post 1 above).

With "the old paradigm" (USB-a for USB things, HDMI or displayport for video, ethernet port, separate charging port), the user could pick up a cable and KNOW what it was used for.

With USB-c, it's no longer plug-and-play.
It's now "GUESS and [maybe] play"...

 

[AppleHaterLover]

How many non-Apple laptops (and non-Apple desktops) are there "out there" that offer ONLY a USB-c port?

My guess (and it's ONLY "a guess") is that many (most?) non-Apple computers still offer at least one USB-a port.
And that in the "non-Apple world", USB-a is still the dominant player.

I think it's going to remain that way for a good while yet.

I predict USB-c will end up like firewire and thunderbolt -- a "niche technology" that never attains widespread adoption.

It's just too confusing for too many folks (as the OP outlined in post 1 above).

With "the old paradigm" (USB-a for USB things, HDMI or displayport for video, ethernet port, separate charging port), the user could pick up a cable and KNOW what it was used for.

With USB-c, it's no longer plug-and-play.
It's now "GUESS and [maybe] play"...

The problem is that televisions are still using HDMI, networks are still using Ethernet etc. So you replaced a standard that had nothing wrong going for it with a confusing one. It’s OK if you carry your own cables, but these Macs are an absolute NIGHTMARE for anyone who’s ever been to a conference anywhere in the world.

I think you’re right in that there is no computer in the market with solely USB-C ports.

 

[leman]

I predict USB-c will end up like firewire and thunderbolt -- a "niche technology" that never attains widespread adoption.

What I find much more likely is that manufacturers will stop offering gimped USB-C ports and the user confusion you mention will simply disappear since most if not all USB-C ports will offer similar functionality.

The majority of laptops released this year include at least one USB-C port, and all of them offer multiple functions (USB3/video, often TB3).

 

[AppleHaterLover]

Duplicate post

 

[leman]

It’s OK if you carry your own cables, but these Macs are an absolute NIGHTMARE for anyone who’s ever been to a conference anywhere in the world.

Because having mini-DP is so much more better I am traveling for conferences pretty much all the time and I can't say that the situation has changed. I always used to carry a bunch of video adapters with me, and I still carry the same amount of video adapters. Only of course the overall package to carry is more compact.

I think you’re right in that there is no computer in the market with solely USB-C ports.

Dell XPS 13, ASUS ZenBook 3...

 

[deeddawg]

Oh, certainly, we're at the early stages of transition and the legacy ports won't go away quickly.

USBC / TB3 is getting adopted though. Lenovo is moving that way for docking their Thinkpads -- and using TB3 for docking. Dell's moving to USBC for docking as well. Current models have some legacy ports but also have USBC ports.

I don't buy the "I don't know what this cable does" thing though. If it's attached to a hard drive I'm going to be pretty sure it won't be displaying video. If it's attached to monitor it's probably going to be doing video -- and might provide power if it's not a legacy monitor.

Yes the road may be bumpy on the way there, much as the USB1 to USB2 transition was at times where some of the cheap crap cables didn't handle USB2 speeds. Or early HDMI cables were sometimes crap as well. That's no excuse not to move forward though IMHO.

 

[AppleHaterLover]

What I find much more likely is that manufacturers will stop offering gimped USB-C ports and the user confusion you mention will simply disappear since most if not all USB-C ports will offer similar functionality.

The majority of laptops released this year include at least one USB-C port, and all of them offer multiple functions (USB3/video, often TB3).

The problem here is: my USB-C port supports HDMI. Yay!!

Then, the $1 HDMI cable I used with my PS4 is suddenly unusable. And the cable in my home theater is, too. And neither those, nor my TV will ever use USB-C.

So I have to carry my own cable around, and if I ever forget it I’m SOL.
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Because having mini-DP is so much more better I am traveling for conferences pretty much all the time and I can't say that the situation has changed. I always used to carry a bunch of video adapters with me, and I still carry the same amount of video adapters. Only of course the overall package to carry is more compact.



Dell XPS 13, ASUS ZenBook 3...

Mini DisplayPort was a disaster in general but I remember getting one for very cheap back in the day. Plus MBPs used to have a full HDMI port.

Try finding a USB-C to HDMI cable these days...

 

[deeddawg]

Try finding a USB-C to HDMI cable these days...

Trick question? Tons of them on Amazon with decent reviews, many in the $15 or less range.

 

[AppleHaterLover]

Trick question? Tons of them on Amazon with decent reviews, many in the $15 or less range.

I stand corrected. But ideally I'd want something a little bit more OEM?

 

[Painter2002]

I did, and it doesn't support 4k@60hz, the USB connections were unstable and even causes the system to freeze up.
Sure you can just buy ONLY TB3 cables, they support everything but cost 10x as much as a power only or 3.1 data only cable.

I think this sums up my feelings. I think the real challenge we are experiencing is an inadequate labeling of what cords are capable of what. This falls on the group that manages certifications for USB-C devices and cables. There needs to be a clear naming system so the user can clearly understand what cables and devices can do what.

Just use Amazon as an example. There are literally thousands of different companies making cords and it can be very challenging to see which one suits your needs. If we could have a standard for what cable supports what it would help.

One cable to rule them all is a great idea, but in the wrong hands it can do great harm. Lol

 

[Ma2k5]

It wasn't introduced to make things easier - that is the honest truth. For most, by the time USB-C becomes mainstream, their current laptops will probably have been replaced by something else.

But Apple are doing it to force the market to adapt, they did it before (removal of CD-drive, not embracing flash player on iPhones, removing headphone jack etc) so it is what it is.

 

[AppleHaterLover]

It wasn't introduced to make things easier - that is the honest truth. For most, by the time USB-C becomes mainstream, their current laptops will probably have been replaced by something else.

But Apple are doing it to force the market to adapt, they did it before (removal of CD-drive, not embracing flash player on iPhones, removing headphone jack etc) so it is what it is.

Which turned out very well for Thunderbolt.