I don't trust Apple pay

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by nouveau-apple, Oct 15, 2014.

  1. nouveau-apple macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2014
    #1
    I'm one of those people who don't believe in Apple pay. It's not that I don't want to, but the problems with Apple pay are so fundamental that I don't see how they would try to push it as the holy grail. It's more like an accessory payment system.
     
  2. noobinator macrumors 601

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    #2
    Do tell us oh wise one what the fundamental problems are? And how are you safer handing over a credit card to a waitress or cashier than using Apple Pay?
     
  3. Applejuiced, Oct 15, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2014

    Applejuiced macrumors Westmere

    Applejuiced

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2008
    Location:
    At the iPhone hacks section.
    #3
    You dont have to use it then.
    Just keep swiping your card thinking you're safe till millions of credit card info is stolen from a retailer you used your card on. Like the Target and Home Depot incidents.
     
  4. bova80 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2008
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    #4
    I trust Apple Pay more than all these stores now. At least now a one off number will be given to them.
     
  5. bjb.butler macrumors 6502a

    bjb.butler

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2008
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    Southern California
    #5
    Okay... Then don't use it.

    I'm not going to use it either, but you don't see me starting forums posts announcing my decision lol
     
  6. Newtons Apple macrumors P6

    Newtons Apple

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2014
    Location:
    Jacksonville, Florida
    #6
    I have my doubts too, but will likely use Apple Pay after it is up and running for a while.

    What I do not like is if something goes wrong, it could go very wrong.
     
  7. caesarp macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    #7
    I guess the question is, do you understand the current magnetic stripe payment card system and why tokenization (which is what Apple Pay uses) is way more secure?

    Do you understand that with Apple Pay, your credit card information is NOT even stored on your iPhone, nor is it stored on Apple's servers. Moreover, and this is the real kicker, your credit card information is NOT even transmitted to the merchant (that means the store) and is not stored on the merchant's systems.

    So the Target and Home Depot credit card breaches could NOT have occurred, had those transactions been conducted via Apple Pay. Why, you ask? Because with Apple Pay, there would have been no credit card information on Target's or Home Depot's systems for the criminals to grab via malware (memory scrapers).

    In fact, EVEN IF criminals were to access or obtain the token (which is NOT your credit card info) that is transmitted to the merchant for Apple Pay transactions (and in turn transmitted to the card network and your issuing bank for authorization), the token itself has NO intrinsic value and is useless to any hackers or criminals.

    So there, in a nutshell, you have it. Apple Pay is AWESOME. For both the merchant, the consumer (that's you) and the card industry as a whole. There's nothing to "believe in" - its not religion. It is based on known and quantifiable standards, such as this (the EMV Payment Tokenisation Specification):

    https://www.emvco.com/specifications.aspx?id=263

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    [/COLOR]
    What are you doubts? What could go wrong that already can't go wrong with the current payment card system?
     
  8. mad3inch1na macrumors 6502a

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    Oct 21, 2013
    #8
    Thank you for this thread. I learned something, even if it was just your unsubstantiated opinion.
     
  9. Newtons Apple macrumors P6

    Newtons Apple

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    Jacksonville, Florida
    #9
    I have had my identity stolen, at no fault of mine, and it cost me over $3000 in lawyer fees to get it fixed.

    I understand fully how it works and like I said, I will likely use it in the future. It will be a while before most of the retailers are up and running with it. My Wells Fargo bank is ready.

    I would like to see how resturants handle this, there are things that will need to be ironed out.
     
  10. nouveau-apple thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    Sep 29, 2014
    #10
    It was featured in Harvard's newsletter.

    "It's a chicken-and-egg conundrum. Millions of shoppers have used cards for years, with little hassle. Edelman points out that people will continue to carry cards even if digital payments gain some traction, so the barrier to overcome for mass acceptance is even higher.

    Edelman has studied Bitcoin, a software-based online payment system, and he sees similarities between technology adoption roadblocks Bitcoin has encountered and issues Apple Pay is likely to face.

    "Apple Pay has the same problems as Bitcoin: There's no reason for the regular consumer to use it," he says. "Why would a consumer want to make a $100 purchase with Bitcoin when the consumer can pay with a credit card and get 2 percent cash back?"


    http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/7580.html
     
  11. caesarp macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    #11
    Payment cards have nothing to do with identity theft. If your credit card information is stolen it is a risk for credit card fraud (fraudulent transactions). And those are generally 100% covered by your credit card provider. Identity theft is when your SSN or drivers' license or other identifying information is stolen and then used to take out loans or open accounts in your name and your credit gets ruined. But someone using your credit card to make fraudulent purchases is not the same thing and you generally have zero liability. The credit card is deactivated and you are issued a new one. Ask your lawyer, he'll tell you if he/she knows what they are doing.

    And guess what, you have much more chance of credit card fraud under the current system. Apple Pay is a gazillion times more secure.

    ----------

    You are simply talking about whether it will reach wide acceptance. We'll see. But the fact that major banks and retailers, not to mention Apple, are behind this already bodes well. And bitcoin has nothing to do with Apple Pay. Appple Pay is just a more secure way to use your credit card (its not a replacement for your credit card.
     
  12. Hankster macrumors 68020

    Hankster

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    Jan 30, 2008
    Location:
    Washington DC
    #12
    Don't trust it? Don't use it. No one is forcing you. Moving on...
     
  13. nouveau-apple thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    Sep 29, 2014
    #13
    The main thing of it is, Apple pay is less likely to be adopted because it's too proprietary. Plus, Apple phones die so often that it doesn't make a good payment instrument.
     
  14. noobinator macrumors 601

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    Jun 19, 2009
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    #14

    You realize Apple Pay uses credit cards right?
     
  15. caesarp macrumors 6502a

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    Sep 30, 2012
    #15
    Well if you get out there and use it, you'll do your part to get it going. Go for it. And I've never heard of an iPhone dying often.
     
  16. madsci954 macrumors 68030

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    Oct 14, 2011
    Location:
    Ohio
    #16
    Well for one, they still get their rewards.
     

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  17. Newtons Apple macrumors P6

    Newtons Apple

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    Location:
    Jacksonville, Florida
    #17
    It had nothing to do with credit cards, I had someone open multiple acounts at large retail stores and make large purchases. Who ever they were, they had everything. SSN, DL, home address, even mothers maiden name.

    After all I went though I do not need a lecture about fraud from anyone. Not even a "cheerleader" for Apple Pay!

    Like I said, I will likely use Apply Pay but I am not waiting to be first in line opening day! I will let all the others enjoy! I know the Apple people thinks this will change the world but there are many products getting ready to compete! Not eveyone owns an iPhone much less one that will do Apple Pay.
     
  18. terraphantm macrumors 68040

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    Jun 27, 2009
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    #18
    That guy is surprisingly misinformed for someone who is at Harvard.

    Apple Pay is nothing like Bitcoin. Your credit card is still what is billed in the transaction. So if you get 2% off with the credit card, you'll get 2% off using the same credit card through Apple Pay.

    Where Apple Pay offers benefits is security, and to a lesser extent convenience. Apple Pay uses a one-time use token for the payment; the POS terminal sees this as a valid credit card number and processes the payment. If that token is ever stolen through a security breach, it will be useless. The iPhone never holds your actual credit card information, and nothing ever ends up on iCloud.
     
  19. caesarp macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    #19
    Well you seem to be scared of Apple Pay because of what you went through. I'm not lecturing, I'm just pointing out that your fear has no basis in reality (as you should know from your experience). In fact, based on your experience, you SHOULD be first in line -- right? -- since Apple Pay is WAY more secure than a "normal" credit card purchase. What are you afraid of?

    And whether or not Apple Pay will one day gain mass acceptance is an entirely separate issue. But the retailers, banks and Apple's formidable marketing power behind it give it a good shot.
     
  20. TWO2SEVEN macrumors 68040

    TWO2SEVEN

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2010
    Location:
    Plano, TX
    #20
    Of all of the possible reasons, this one seals the deal for you? Haha.

    Using Apple Pay isn't going to stop me from carrying my wallet. If my phone happens to die, I will use my card as I always have. No big deal.

    As others have said, you have the power to choose. If you don't like it, don't use it.
     
  21. Applejuiced macrumors Westmere

    Applejuiced

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2008
    Location:
    At the iPhone hacks section.
    #21
    I disagree. Bad analogy between bitcoin and applepay. Not many people have bitcoin, know what it is or how to use it. Everyone has iphones and they can go in the phone settings and enter their credit card info to pay using their phone if they choose to.
    I bring my phone everywhere with me. Instead of having to carry my wallet with 12 credit cards I can just swipe my phone at checkout and use my fingerprint or passcode to pay by choosing any credit card or my debit card for the payment to come out of. And of course I still get cashback cause my applepay is linked to my citi rewards card. No difference at all between using the actual card or the cellphone.
    Sounds to me you just dont understand it and because of that you're scared to use it.
    And that is fine, many people still do not want to use online banking or bill pay or use a mobile app to do their banking. Its their decision.
    To the rest of us we enjoy the ease, comfort and convenience of all technology has to offer.
     
  22. terraphantm macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2009
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    #22
    There is no mechanism for someone to retrieve your personal information through Apple Pay. The bank would have to be compromised for there to be an issue, and that is a risk whether or not you use Apple Pay
     
  23. deeddawg macrumors 604

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2010
    Location:
    US
    #23
    Yep, still gotta carry drivers license, medical insurance card, some cash, and a couple other items, so my wallet is still coming with me.

    Where I see a benefit from Apple Pay is that I can carry just one credit card as backup and still have all my others with me virtually -- I can then use whichever is most advantageous for a particular transaction. (even better if I can associate particular cards to use with particular merchants).
     
  24. nouveau-apple thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    Sep 29, 2014
    #24
    Try leaving all your cards at home and you'll quickly find that all your digital cards will be of no use to you more than half the time.
     
  25. itsmemuffins macrumors 68030

    itsmemuffins

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2010
    #25
    I trust Apple Pay more than I trust your opinion ;)
     

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