iPad Pro I get real tired of the "iPad/iPad iOS is not a Macbook, iPads Suck" comments on social Media.

[transmaster]

I date back to the iPod Touch 2G. In all of the years I have had iPod Touches, and iPhones I have never really considered the shortcomings of these devices other than their inability to do much in the way of Amatuer Radio work, which I can happily point out is changing. What I have always been more interested in is the App's. It is Apps that caused me to get the first iPod Touch. It is apps that continue to fuel my enjoyment of these devices. I have my Mac Studio, I also have a Windows 11 machine mostly used for Amatuer Radio. I have the computers I need. On the iPhone,and iPad I have electronic engineering apps, apps that list numerous knots, Bird IDs, plants and trees Id's, one that ID Dragon flies, and Damselflies, another for the identification and tracking of Hummingbirds. I have an App that allows you to listen in real time to the sounds of a rainforest, really nifty translation apps. numerous Astronomy Apps some using virtual reality to see with. Games like Prune 1&2, Quakefeed, Solar Monitor. Space Weather Live. If you are making a living trying to use a iPad to do it that is fine if it doesn't work out get a MacBook, I for one am perfectly happy with my new iPad.

 

[MacDevil7334]

Great. I’m really glad to hear you are happy with your iPad and don’t want anything else out of it. But not everyone is in that boat. Nobody is saying that the iPad can’t do anything professional or useful. Clearly it can (as you pointed out). What we are saying is that Apple has decided to artificially limit the capabilities of the iPad in software even when hooked up to a keyboard and trackpad, which is objectively true.

I’ll just quote myself from another thread on my perception of the issue:

I use my iPad Pro for all my work notes, technical documents, and for quick responses to emails and IMs while in meetings. Those are “pro” tasks and the iPad does them well. That’s not really the issue I and many others have with the current state of the iPad Pro line. We aren’t saying it can’t do any “pro” tasks. Obviously it can, and for some tasks is the best tool (anything that benefits from the pencil or being touch-first).

Let me frame the issue this way: an M-series MacBook Air can’t do everything an iPad Pro can because of its hardware design and limitations. It lacks a touch screen and stylus support. So, it can’t do things that require those features and is instead limited to tasks that can be accomplished with a keyboard and trackpad. The iPad Pro with the exact same chip (or in the case of the new models, a better chip) does support a keyboard and trackpad. But, when the iPad is hooked up to those peripherals, it can’t do the same things an equivalent MacBook can do because Apple has limited the software. That’s infuriating given Apple pushes the iPad Pro hard as a laptop replacement.

I’m not necessarily saying iPads should run macOS. I think the people yelling for macOS are more looking for a quick way to free the iPad from limitations on backgrounding, memory, and file management that the Mac hasn’t had in decades. If iPadOS were to evolve to remove these limits, that would be fine with me. But, after 14 years, the core of iPadOS is still a phone OS based around protecting scarce system resources that are abundant in modern hardware. That needs to change somehow.

 

[bluegt]

Artificially limiting is stating the obvious though. This has been the modus operandi for Apple since at least the early days of the iPhone when it was compared to Android (and still is).

 

[ShadowBailey]

I do find some of the criticism a little silly. It’s like buying a sports car and then complaining it doesn’t fit when the engine could create enough thrust.

You know what you bought. Don’t expect it to do more.

Then there is some of the unrealistic expectations. Full MacOS on iPad ? Has Apple ever said it was coming ? With the exception of the top end high capacity iPad Pros, the RAM is a little limited (8GB). The cooling ability is limited. No active cooling and a very thin form factor mean it will get hot if the chip is pushed. It probably wouldn’t be a best user experience.

There are tablets out there running desktop OS, like the Surface Pro. I’ve got one. I try to love it, but if I’m honest it is the worst of both worlds for me. It’s a horrible tablet experience compared with iPad for me. The OS also does not suit touch still. It’s over complicated for many ‘casual‘ users who make up a huge % of ipad users. Think your parents/grandparents who were allergic to a computer but love their iPad. The iPad is a consumer device aimed at everyone including those who wouldn’t use a computer. The Surface is also heavy and uncomfortable to hold. The form factor is getting better but not there yet for me. And frankly, many great apps are missing. I use pdf markup apps daily. I’ve tried just about all of them. I have some favourites On iPad, but I’ve yet to find the right one on PC (LiquidTex comes close).

Having said all of that, can ipadOS be improved ? Yes. Can it do more ? Yes. Are there apps missing ? Yes. Why no proper equivalent of MacOS Preview for example ? Why no decent local storage for cloud saved material (ios18 adds that but so far it’s not worked properly for me in the beta. Some better multi tasking (it’s improved over the years but still could not with some work). Stage Manager is a good start but is not quite there.

So I hope they do spend some real effort on iPadOS which does often feel a poor relation to iOS. But do I want or even think the iPad needs MacOS ? No, and most people wouldn’t in my view. Some of the faux outrage seems a little much, although many on here are just asking for improvement not revolution.

 

[transmaster]

My beef is not with MacRumors. The people here know what they are talking about. I am coming from years of use of iPhones. My 14 Pro Max setup my iPad so the iPad is a clone of the iPhone. I am trying to define what this new iPad is to me. I never did intensive office work what I did do was with Windows and Windows Office. I am looking at the iPad which is in a stand just to my left and it has dawned on me it is my reference device. I worked as a research archivist at the University of Wyoming. This was long before PC's were common. With the Apps I have loaded on it some I have used for over 10 years I can find out just about everything I need to know. The advances that took place between my 2013 iPad Air and this M4 Pro are astonishing. The App's are like reference books on a bookshelf.

 

[Ludatyk]

Great. I’m really glad to hear you are happy with your iPad and don’t want anything else out of it. But not everyone is in that boat. Nobody is saying that the iPad can’t do anything professional or useful. Clearly it can (as you pointed out). What we are saying is that Apple has decided to artificially limit the capabilities of the iPad in software even when hooked up to a keyboard and trackpad, which is objectively true.

So, then... what do you propose Apple do? You mention this below but didn't clarify your points.

I think the people yelling for macOS are more looking for a quick way to free the iPad from limitations on backgrounding, memory, and file management that the Mac hasn’t had in decades.

But if you decide to turn on Stage Manager... a feature that can help with background limitation. I think the misconception is that Apple does this for no reason at all, when clearly this helps with battery life. And in regard to file management... no one actually says what they want from the Files app.

I think someone stated they wanted File transfer dialog... where it shows transfer speeds, well... Files app have this. It's as if critics continue to beat on the same drum without realizing Apple has improve on some of the areas they bring up.

 

[transmaster]

I hope this doesn't evolve into a flame war. 🙏

A portable device more than anything brings expectations for people that use them so much more than a desktop device. If you have listened to MacBreak Weekly for as many years as I have They have had this, what to do with a iPad, discussion for years , Andy ihnatko sometime getting heated during the discussion with no answer. I mostly use portable computational devices for Amateur Radio. Here is an example. I don't have a radio I can do this with yet, that is next on the list.

Probably the best thing we can do is define how you want to use your iPad and go from there. I might be interesting to have pinned sections for this. If you want to do office/administrative work go here. Music production here, Movies here, etc. It would be nice to have a iOS themed section for Amatuer Radio. This is an area that is just now starting to attract developers.


This is an iPad paired with and iCOM IC-7610. This combination turns and iPad into a world class receiver, with the ability to communicate anywhere on the planet. There is nothing more fun than doing this in the wilderness of Wyoming.

 

[ShadowBailey]

I hope this doesn't evolve into a flame war. 🙏

Same here !

The iPad is a great device. It changed computing and introduced a category of device, the tablet, which had brought internet access and computing to over a billion people, many of whom would not have chosen a traditional desktop or laptop. It opened touch up as an input from others to expand on. It has opened accessibility options. On a lesser level, it also makes a train or plane journey sooooo much better.

As the hardware becomes more advanced there will be more and more expectations on Apple to allow them to do more. There is nothing wrong with that. They can and should do more and develop ipadOS. Having said that, iPadOS is still the best tablet experience out there in my view. I tried Android with the Tab Ultra S8. Fabulous piece of hardware. But the OS didn’t do it for me.

My beef is not with MacRumors. The people here know what they are talking about.

Agreed ! Debate is healthy and people are right to ask for improvements and enhancements. iPadOS is not perfect, and it feels quite a few ‘cycles’ behind iOS in terms of maximising the ability and usability of the device. But let’s not pretend it’s awful either. I don’t think there’s a better tablet experience out there.

Apple caused some of these issues as well when first they tried to market the iPad as a computer replacement. Then they added the ‘pro’ moniker, which some read as meaning they wanted to be able to do powerful pro things that needed a decent professional grade PC, on a tablet.

But some of the criticism out there is excessive.

Here’s hoping for more usability enhancements and developments of iPadOS to make the iPad even better for even more people.

On that surely we all agree !

 

[Jackbequickly]

Everyone has their own opinion! Just ignore what you do not agree with and move on with life!

 

[jclardy]

The anger/annoyance stems from one thing - there is no touch enabled macOS.

The closest substitute is iPadOS - but iPadOS is missing background tasks, menubar apps, virtual machines, ability to run non-sandboxed code, terminal, window manager options, startup apps. And the biggest issue - apps on iPadOS are designed for touch first (and usually only.) They technically work with a cursor, but only because the cursor is emulating a finger. The number of apps that have keyboard shortcuts is tiny. Basically, iPadOS apps are built to support the minimum target, a base level iPad from 2-3 years ago with no accessories.

That is what makes the M4 16GB 2TB 13" iPad Pro massively overkill for 99% of users (minus the ones that suffer through for video editing) Absolutely incredible hardware, but held back by the entire platform of software which wasn't designed for the bleeding edge.

If you look at the mac - all pro software can get faster - so upgrading to the latest CPU makes sense. There are functions that still have progress bars on the M3 Max 64GB MBP. Compiling software takes minutes for large applications. On the iPad, the number of apps this applies to is maybe 10 if we are being generous (all pro video apps, maybe photoshop/lightroom).

For me - I use a macbook air with M3 to compile visionOS/iOS apps and it works incredibly well. And I carry an iPad for fun/reading/email/slack. But all I want is to have a single device so that I'm not carrying around two screens, two keyboards, two CPUs, two trackpads because of an arbitrary UI distinction. And guess what - I buy the most base level product I can buy, because I know I am buying two. If there was an iPad that could also run macOS in some fashion - I'd be out the door with a 13" M4/16GB/2TB/Cellular - a $2000 machine (not including $500 in accessories), replacing my $1400/$700 machines. At the rate iPadOS is going, I'll be sticking to the M2 for another 5 years.

People always say "oh well they can't have one device because they can sell you two" - at some point people leave, and that one device comes from another company that isn't afraid to cannibalize it's own products by making better ones.

"If You Don't Cannibalize Yourself, Someone Else Will" - Steve Jobs

 

[eltoslightfoot]

@transmaster, I agree with you. Once I let go of my dream of using an iPad like my Mac, it became a lot easier to use both as they should. I use my 2018 iPad Pro 12.9" for simple stuff--reading PDFs and eBooks, Scrivener (with magic keyboard), playing music and streaming, surfing, and taking lots and lots of notes (mostly in Notability--but we will see what Apple Notes is like in iPadOS 18)...I don't use Stage Manager, only Split View. Keep it simple and it works great.

My M1 Macbook Pro 13" I use for remoting into work, Scrivener, ProWritingAid, Alfred, tons of desktop/laptop stuff. And I have a Windows gaming laptop for gaming (and that's it with the recall disaster and general state of Windows).

In the future, I will upgrade to a 15" MBA 16/512 as that is where I spend most of my productivity. My iPad Pro will be with me for the rest of its life LOL. It isn't being challenged by anything so....when it goes, I will get a used iPad Air 13" and move on LOL.

 

[dmr727]

Probably the best thing we can do is define how you want to use your iPad and go from there. I might be interesting to have pinned sections for this. If you want to do office/administrative work go here. Music production here, Movies here, etc. It would be nice to have a iOS themed section for Amatuer Radio. This is an area that is just now starting to attract developers.


This is an iPad paired with and iCOM IC-7610. This combination turns and iPad into a world class receiver, with the ability to communicate anywhere on the planet. There is nothing more fun than doing this in the wilderness of Wyoming.


View attachment 2389236


View attachment 2389237

That's really cool - it didn't occur to me that people would use an iPad for Amateur Radio. A thread detailing interesting things people are doing with their iPads is a great idea.

 

[transmaster]

My take on the massively overpowered issue is longevity. I purchased the 13" M4 Pro 1 TB for two main reasons, the OLED display and the 1TB giving me 16GB of RAM. I figure I have enough power reserves that I should not have to upgrade this iPad for a number of years.

I have both iPhone 14 Pro Max and the iPad 13" M4 on stands on the left side of the keyboard for the Mac Studio. The continuous notifications, weather, both space and terrestrial are nice, Earthquake notices etc. I get from both of them is very informative. The larger screen on the iPad makes such alerts that much more detailed.

 

[transmaster]

As for keyboards and such, I have the Apple Magic Trackpad, and the iPad is command fn-2 on my Keychron keyboard.

 

[Webcat86]

My beef is not with MacRumors. The people here know what they are talking about. I am coming from years of use of iPhones. My 14 Pro Max setup my iPad so the iPad is a clone of the iPhone. I am trying to define what this new iPad is to me. I never did intensive office work what I did do was with Windows and Windows Office. I am looking at the iPad which is in a stand just to my left and it has dawned on me it is my reference device. I worked as a research archivist at the University of Wyoming. This was long before PC's were common. With the Apps I have loaded on it some I have used for over 10 years I can find out just about everything I need to know. The advances that took place between my 2013 iPad Air and this M4 Pro are astonishing. The App's are like reference books on a bookshelf.

This sounds interesting, can you recommend any of these reference books apps? Topic doesn't matter, I'm just curious to see them.

Apple caused some of these issues as well when first they tried to market the iPad as a computer replacement. Then they added the ‘pro’ moniker, which some read as meaning they wanted to be able to do powerful pro things that needed a decent professional grade PC, on a tablet.

Then those people aren't paying attention to "Pro" in Apple parlance. There's the Mac Pro which, fair enough, is aimed squarely at the actual pro market. But the iPhone Pro isn't. The AirPods Pro aren't. MacBook Pro is and isn't.

The iPad is a computer replacement for the very many people who don't need any additional computational functions — and Apple knows this. To say "the iPad isn't a computer replacement" is no different to saying the MacBook Air isn't because it isn't as capable as a MacBook Pro. The people who buy the MBA do so precisely because they don't need the firepower of the MBP.

All computers have their limitations, so the only question is which limitations are the deal breakers for each person or group of people. Hence, there are some people for whom the iPad is absolutely sufficient, while there are also people for whom a top-of-the-line MacBook Pro is not sufficient because they can't have anything less than a loaded Mac Pro.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

Your choices are:
1. An ipad tablet with great hardware and a mobile (phone) OS.
2. A mac notebook with a full OS but you cant draw on the screen or use touch.
3.
4. A surface tablet with good enough hardware, stylus/touch, a full OS but halfassed & bloated
5. A mac with a Wacom tablet, for great hardware, a full OS & pro software, huge price tag, & a whole bunch of heavy stuff to drag around.

No one should ever hope Apple fills in #3, bc I like the one I chose so everyone else should like it too. Also everyone should stop talking about things I dont personally like bc it bothers me. This is where we’re at here?

 

[transmaster]

This sounds interesting, can you recommend any of these reference books apps? Topic doesn't matter, I'm just curious to see them.

Here are some of what I have loaded.

Chemistry App
VTree
iEngineer
RailMap
Knife Steel Chart
Space Weather Live
AeroWeather
Star Walk 2
Mushroom ID, North America
Wild Fires Analyst, Pocket
Specialty Produce
Fromage
EE ToolKit Pro

 

[transmaster]

It is the App's that really separate iOS devices from Mac's, and especially PC's. Both have App stores now but they don't even come close the Apple's App Store, and Google's (android) Play Store.

 

[ShadowBailey]

It is the App's that really separate iOS devices from Mac's, and especially PC's. Both have App stores now but they don't even come close the Apple's App Store, and Google's (android) Play Store.

Absolutely.

But I suppose equally some of the concerns people raise is because some of the developers could develop more pro apps for the ipad now it is more capable.

I think the issue sometimes is that they don’t want people to have to look up the spec requirements to check a given app from the App Store will run, and whilst some more powerful apps may work well on the newest iPad Pro they may struggle on older machines with lesser chips and RAM.

 

[transmaster]

Absolutely.

But I suppose equally some of the concerns people raise is because some of the developers could develop more pro apps for the ipad now it is more capable.

I think the issue sometimes is that they don’t want people to have to look up the spec requirements to check a given app from the App Store will run, and whilst some more powerful apps may work well on the newest iPad Pro they may struggle on older machines with lesser chips and RAM.

They do make Apps that use more of the power of iPads. But iPads have been over-powdered for so many years that unless you go back a number of years you will be hard-pressed to tell the difference. This is one app I justed loaded from CERN. Darwin Speaks. With this app you have a virtual Darwin that will answer questions. Think of this virtual Darwin as a fully interactive AI. It will be something like this that will replace Siri

 

[TechnoMonk]

Once you move past making iPad Pro function like Mac, it becomes very productive. I use my iPad Pro as test bed for inferences. Code reviews/deployment and cloud configs. I could have bought a MBA, but iPad Pro is more fun, and ability to use pencil makes it more versatile. its lot more fun to use iPad Pro anywhere, with out being tied to one place.

 

[Webcat86]

Absolutely.

But I suppose equally some of the concerns people raise is because some of the developers could develop more pro apps for the ipad now it is more capable.

I think the issue sometimes is that they don’t want people to have to look up the spec requirements to check a given app from the App Store will run, and whilst some more powerful apps may work well on the newest iPad Pro they may struggle on older machines with lesser chips and RAM.

App Store lists device compatibility…

 

[dk001]

My beef is not with MacRumors. The people here know what they are talking about. I am coming from years of use of iPhones. My 14 Pro Max setup my iPad so the iPad is a clone of the iPhone. I am trying to define what this new iPad is to me. I never did intensive office work what I did do was with Windows and Windows Office. I am looking at the iPad which is in a stand just to my left and it has dawned on me it is my reference device. I worked as a research archivist at the University of Wyoming. This was long before PC's were common. With the Apps I have loaded on it some I have used for over 10 years I can find out just about everything I need to know. The advances that took place between my 2013 iPad Air and this M4 Pro are astonishing. The App's are like reference books on a bookshelf.

For your use case it sounds more like your iPad use is for reference materials. That is something it is very good at.

 

[dk001]

An iPad is a pretty darn good tool. Mostly consumptive. I have used them in this case for many years. Run presentations, take notes, emails, watch movies, media consumption, etc…

Myself, I don’t want MacOS. A better file system would be nice. Mostly it is about what Apple allows, level of OS access and functionality. Hate those API ;imitations. I work in an engineering space focusing on regulatory, labs and ERP development. Biggest complaint I run into, and vendors I work with, is that Apple does not allow needed functionality for this kind of software. You can either create a deliberately crippled version of the software and tools or skip the iPad and focus on pcs. You can guess what the outcome is. Sadly.

Oh, and the lack of ability to assign default apps. Ugh!

The iPad could be so much more. It has the hardware. The software (OS) is deliberately crippling it’s potential.

JMHO YOMVS

 

[decafjava]

Here are some of what I have loaded.

Chemistry App
VTree
iEngineer
RailMap
Knife Steel Chart
Space Weather Live
AeroWeather
Star Walk 2
Mushroom ID, North America
Wild Fires Analyst, Pocket
Specialty Produce
Fromage
EE ToolKit Pro

Oh wow, thanks for the list, I can already see a few apps of interest and one (Star Walk 2) that I have.