I GIVE UP!!!!!!!

[TheBSDGuy]

Sorry Mac fans, but I GIVE UP!!!

I've simply had it with the poor quality software that Apple is releasing. Xcode is an abysmal mess that hogs up gigabytes of memory. I have a multi-portioned OS X setup and the things I'm able to do with Mavericks and earlier OS X versions are easy, but with El Capitan, it's a food fight.

Todays source of irritation is Time Machine. I keep separate backup drives for each OS X version I need to maintain and on each of these I also backup our source code volume. On anything earlier than Yosemite I can backup not only the OS but the source code partition in a reasonable amount of time. A full backup of both portions (OS and our source code partition) is about 2 hours, and an incremental backup is done in minutes.

On El Capitan, this was looking like it was going to be at least an eight our excursion. I finally terminated the backup process because I don't have time to wait around for it to complete. I should add that by Time Machine's own reporting, the amount of data to be backed up was about 17GB.

When Xcode launches it erratically starts running socketfilterfw process which can eat up to 800MB and keep the CPU running at full tilt for about 15 minutes. Safari web processes often reach over 1GB of memory and bring the system to it's knees. Even Mail can cause excessive memory use. This is ridiculous.

If I have any say in it, I think our company should simply stop developing for Macs. The "it just works" statement should be replaced with "it's diarrhea-ware".

This operating system is at best a bad joke. I've had it!!!

 

[Eithanius]

If I have any say in it, I think our company should simply stop developing for Macs. The "it just works" statement should be replaced with "it's diarrhea-ware".

This operating system is at best a bad joke. I've had it!!!

I've been saying this countless times... "It Just Works" for consumer is now "It Just Profits" for the Apple team...

 

[Riwam]

Sorry Mac fans, but I GIVE UP!!!

I've simply had it with the poor quality software that Apple is releasing. Xcode is an abysmal mess that hogs up gigabytes of memory. I have a multi-portioned OS X setup and the things I'm able to do with Mavericks and earlier OS X versions are easy, but with El Capitan, it's a food fight.

Todays source of irritation is Time Machine. I keep separate backup drives for each OS X version I need to maintain and on each of these I also backup our source code volume. On anything earlier than Yosemite I can backup not only the OS but the source code partition in a reasonable amount of time. A full backup of both portions (OS and our source code partition) is about 2 hours, and an incremental backup is done in minutes.

On El Capitan, this was looking like it was going to be at least an eight our excursion. I finally terminated the backup process because I don't have time to wait around for it to complete. I should add that by Time Machine's own reporting, the amount of data to be backed up was about 17GB.

When Xcode launches it erratically starts running socketfilterfw process which can eat up to 800MB and keep the CPU running at full tilt for about 15 minutes. Safari web processes often reach over 1GB of memory and bring the system to it's knees. Even Mail can cause excessive memory use. This is ridiculous.

If I have any say in it, I think our company should simply stop developing for Macs. The "it just works" statement should be replaced with "it's diarrhea-ware".

This operating system is at best a bad joke. I've had it!!!

********
Sorry very much for your problems.
My humble experience however was that all the OS alternatives I had, beginning with Windows for Workgroups running on a SX386 in about 1990 and being followed by SuSE Linux a few years later, all had problems of different gravity in different aspects.
The absolute trouble free OS (if it exists, what I very much doubt) somehow didn't show up to me.

I have accepted that everything I use like... water-heater, fridge, telephone, TV, dish washer, coffee machine, microwave, etc. etc.,...and yes, also computer (!) is only an object created and manufactured by human beings.
A serious bug in a Rolls Royce-manufactured jet airplane motor can cause the death of hundreds of people.
A bug in a computer can cause money loses only if the user is stupid enough not to make back ups of important matters.
In all other cases it means of course worry, nerves and losing valuable time and one's patience, all things which are not a matter of life and death.

No human creation was ever perfect nor will ever be.
Even if the Lord created the world in which we live, it resulted in a very poor place ruled by primitive and cruel acting human beings.

What cannot be changed, must be accepted.
OSX El Capitan is not a greater mess than most other things in this world and its bugs are much less serious in their consequences.
This way of thinking does not solve your computer problems (of course!) but it places their gravity in a somehow more fair perspective IMHO.
Ed

 

[leman]

Sorry to hear that it's not working out for you. I'm very happy with 10.11 so far, the Time Machine works reliably for our servers and the 20+ macs that are backups over the network and I haven't had any serious issues with Xcode so far. Apple has (and always had) their fair share of bugs, but OS X is still the best and most convenient general-purpose OS and Macs are the best general-purpose computers in my book

 

[KALLT]

When Xcode launches it erratically starts running socketfilterfw process which can eat up to 800MB and keep the CPU running at full tilt for about 15 minutes.

socketfilterw relates to OS X’ firewall. Is the firewall enabled in System Preferences > Security > Firewall? If so, you may want to test if turning it off has any effect. Alternatively, see whether the option “Automatically allow signed software receive incoming connections” is checked. I think both are disabled by default. Xcode is a heavyweight and it may be the case that your firewall verifies Xcode whenever it launches, as Xcode will attempt to connect to the network upon launch.

As for Time Machine, is it a different disk? Have you ruled out any hardware problems? Particularly, have you checked the disk with Disk Utility (in El Capitan the option is now called First Aid).

 

[BrianBaughn]

Shouldn't this thread be in the "Mac Programming" forum?

 

[JohnDS]

There is a long thread on the Apple Discussion Forums about Time Machine backups not completing in El Capitan. The problem has been traced to a problem with Spotlight indexing not completing. Time Machine apparently depends on the Spotlight Index.

The Spotlight problem in turn has been isolated to computers that have more that one User.

One suggested solution is to log into each user in turn and allow Spotlight to complete the back up on that user.

That solution did not work for me.

What worked for me was to log into each user in turn and add the other users to the Spotlight privacy tab.

I suspect the problem is a permissions issue that causes the Spotlight indexing process to go into a loop when it tries to index the home folder of a user that is not logged in.

 

[imejh]

It just works for most of the people... for some, not so much. Sorry, better luck next time.

 

[Shirasaki]

I don't use Xcode but I feel really sorry for all matters you have encountered.
For me, as I am an El Capitan-only user, I don't encounter any visible Time Machine issue. Perhaps I have good luck on it.

Mac OS X is definitely not perfect, and "it just works" has obvious or hidden limitations/conditions. No one may persuade Apple to use another slogan, which is more realistic. I just leave it be, and use my little MacBook Air 11-inch happily.

 

[KALLT]

Mac OS X is definitely not perfect, and "it just works" has obvious or hidden limitations/conditions. No one may persuade Apple to use another slogan, which is more realistic.

Fun fact: Apple used this phrase only once and it was at the introduction of iCloud. In that specific context it just meant that iCloud ‘just works’ as opposed to requiring an elaborate setup or learning curve. To my knowledge it was never used in a different context, although I can image that something similar might have been said at keynotes.

 

[cerberusss]

Fun fact: Apple used this phrase only once and it was at the introduction of iCloud

Wow, that's actually quite unfortunate. I don't recognize OP's troubles but iCloud -- well that's something special.

 

[Shirasaki]

Fun fact: Apple used this phrase only once and it was at the introduction of iCloud. In that specific context it just meant that iCloud ‘just works’ as opposed to requiring an elaborate setup or learning curve. To my knowledge it was never used in a different context, although I can image that something similar might have been said at keynotes.

Well, under the context of iCloud, I agree that if everything goes fine, iCloud "just works". Maybe I have missed something when watching keynotes. But another fun fact here is people are using "just works" to assume Every Apple product would "just works" at anytime and anywhere.

 

[Eithanius]

Well, under the context of iCloud, I agree that if everything goes fine, iCloud "just works". Maybe I have missed something when watching keynotes. But another fun fact here is people are using "just works" to assume Every Apple product would "just works" at anytime and anywhere.

But everything that came to maturity did "just works" until iCloud came along... How old is iCloud now...? 5 years old already no...?

 

[OldGuyTom]

As of today, App Store user ratings for El Capitan are:

5 star: 217
4 star: 58
3 star: 40
2 star: 51
1 star: 304

It appears to be a new low. Most complaints are performance or bug related.

 

[Partron22]

I stopped using Time Machine when Mavericks came out. It seems it didn't like the idea of only backing up the things I wanted backed up. Perhaps it continued to work for those who liked to use TM for everything?
I've not gone back to it since. The price of an unnoticed failure is simply too high.

For people still using Time Machine: You might want to test a few TM files to see if you can actually get them back. When the app went bad on me, it pretended to continue to be working just fine, but it was all a sham.

 

[MacRobert10]

The new trend with Apple seems to be to release a beta-version quality OS, debug and fix it for about a year, at which point it becomes reasonable, and then release another buggy "new and improved" version of the OS. I can't stand the crappy white-washed everywhere appearance of Yosemite, but at least about a year after it's release they got most of the bugs fixed...most of them. I'd assume the same will happen for El Capitan. The old advice was wait a few weeks for the OS to be ironed out, now it's a year. I have no idea what the logic behind this kind of thinking is.

 

[Queen6]

Same here; I tried multiple clean install`s of 10.11, never getting any further than the base install and setup, due to numerous issues or more to the point Apple`s inability to release a solid working OS. Installing third party applications was simply not a consideration given OS X & Apple`s own applications failed to run as expected. The same hardware runs 10.10.5 flawlessly, Apple`s only solution is to wait for the next point release or Beta, fundamentally they have no idea...

The crux of the matter is that IOS is Apple`s primary focus, with OS X being a poor second. This results in needlessly rapid updates to the desktop OS for the sake of sales & marketing, that may or may not work dependant on your hardware, usage & workflow. Apple are simply delivering a Beta version of OS X to the public, they then spend the next 12 months attempting to resolve basic issues, that may or may not be fixed, rolled over to the next iteration of OS X or worse completely ignored. The cycle repeats. I for one am not interested in "rolling the dice" on business critical systems or being "locked into" older hardware due to Apple`s inability to deliver.

Next shot will be when I update my Mac`s for 2016 (hardware), if then 10.11 fails to perform with what I consider to be basic tasks, they will be returned. I am already trialling a Windows 10 system for my business need, as much as it pains me, equally it has yet to present issue. Sadly my opinion of Apple is significantly diminishing for use in the professional environment, with OS X becoming ever more a vehicle for social media and entertainment. As a premium provider, personally I expect far more of Apple, not just 80%, nor do I see the situation improving anytime soon.

Q-6

 

[navaira]

I think it's very telling that we still aren't exactly sure WHAT the changes were in 10.11.3 and 10.11.4. Someone posted "Apple releases a new beta of 10.11.3 with multiple new bugs" and I laughed, and then I thought, actually this is not impossible...

 

[Shirasaki]

But everything that came to maturity did "just works" until iCloud came along... How old is iCloud now...? 5 years old already no...?

So, you mean, from the announcement of iCloud, everything was working as expected?

 

[Gochugogi]

10.11.2 works great for me but I mainly use it eight hours a day to edit my audio and video productions. I'm surprised by all the legacy apps that still run fine on it: Quicken 2007, Office 2008, Bias Peak Pro, CS5.5, etc. However, I was perfectly happy with 10.8x and 10.9x and wish Apple would polish a current OS to perfection rather than focusing on a major annual remake.

 

[Ebenezum]

I stopped using Time Machine when Mavericks came out. It seems it didn't like the idea of only backing up the things I wanted backed up. Perhaps it continued to work for those who liked to use TM for everything?
I've not gone back to it since. The price of an unnoticed failure is simply too high.

For people still using Time Machine: You might want to test a few TM files to see if you can actually get them back. When the app went bad on me, it pretended to continue to be working just fine, but it was all a sham.

I have similar experience, only difference was that in my case the failure happened in Yosemite. I was previously cautious and Time Machine was never my only backup which meant I lost no files. I no longer use Time Machine because I cant trust it enough.

The new trend with Apple seems to be to release a beta-version quality OS, debug and fix it for about a year, at which point it becomes reasonable, and then release another buggy "new and improved" version of the OS. I can't stand the crappy white-washed everywhere appearance of Yosemite, but at least about a year after it's release they got most of the bugs fixed...most of them. I'd assume the same will happen for El Capitan. The old advice was wait a few weeks for the OS to be ironed out, now it's a year. I have no idea what the logic behind this kind of thinking is.

I'm in the same boat. I wasn't impressed when I beta tested Yosemite and many of my bug reports were ignored. Same thing happened with El Capitan and I got fed up being a guinea big for Apple.

My current policy is never to install new OS until 10.xx.5 update because it's the only reasonable way to avoid headache. I have no intention of "upgrading" from Mavericks any time soon...

 

[ZVH]

The same thing happened to me. TIme Machine locked up or slowed down excessively. I got tired of waiting for it and shut down. THe next day the it did another backup that completed in about 15 minutes. I have no idea what the bug is except it's random.

Generally I've found the latest release of El Capitan reasonably stable, but it still has some oddities. Once in a while the mouse cursor won't show up on startup, and restarting seems to fix the problem.

 

[dyn]

I think it's very telling that we still aren't exactly sure WHAT the changes were in 10.11.3 and 10.11.4. Someone posted "Apple releases a new beta of 10.11.3 with multiple new bugs" and I laughed, and then I thought, actually this is not impossible...

It is indeed very telling because it shows how people have changed over the years. People used to be rather well educated and civil but no more. As can be seen here because 10.11.4 is still in beta (public beta 3 was released just this week) and there are release notes for 10.11.3 which, by the way, never have been very detailed like with some other software (the security fixes are though, take a look at Apples security page).

The same goes for Time Machine, AirDrop and wifi: all 3 have been with issues since the day they were released. In case of wifi it gets even worse as it affects every product on the planet that uses it because it is a wireless technology and we have been blasting more and more electromagnetic radiation (read: radiowaves) in the air. Everyone has wifi, everyone has bluetooth and everyone finds it very useful to have both turned on all the time. Almost everyone also has a cellphone. And then we have wireless car keys, radiocontrolled remotes for TVs, the use of drones that use the 2.4GHz spectrum has increased and so on. Wireless tech has increased enormously and that comes at a cost. Cables might be ugly but they are very very useful.

 

[Riwam]

It is indeed very telling because it shows how people have changed over the years. People used to be rather well educated and civil but no more. As can be seen here because 10.11.4 is still in beta (public beta 3 was released just this week) and there are release notes for 10.11.3 which, by the way, never have been very detailed like with some other software (the security fixes are though, take a look at Apples security page).

The same goes for Time Machine, AirDrop and wifi: all 3 have been with issues since the day they were released. In case of wifi it gets even worse as it affects every product on the planet that uses it because it is a wireless technology and we have been blasting more and more electromagnetic radiation (read: radiowaves) in the air. Everyone has wifi, everyone has bluetooth and everyone finds it very useful to have both turned on all the time. Almost everyone also has a cellphone. And then we have wireless car keys, radiocontrolled remotes for TVs, the use of drones that use the 2.4GHz spectrum has increased and so on. Wireless tech has increased enormously and that comes at a cost. Cables might be ugly but they are very very useful.

I agree that older connections like cables are still for many uses the best choice.
A wireless network is much easier to hack than a cable one.
"Newer" doesn't necessary means "better".

I had in the past for instance many fax machines and the only one still working flawlessly is the very first, about 25 years old, which came not even with a built in phone keyboard forcing the user to use an external phone.

We should learn to appreciate older technology instead of running blindly towards newer things only because we are too lazy to continue to use reliable things.

In the past car thieves had to use violence and therefore make a lot of noise, taking considerably risks to be caught.
With the "modern" transmitting car keys it was just a matter of time until they found how to detect and simulate those waves and steal cars expensive enough to be worth while stealing them.

Computers and related matters are no exception to the rule if ain't broken don't replace it.
Ed
******************************************

Shouldn't this thread be in the "Mac Programming" forum?

It is almost unavoidable than every matter discussed in this forum at a certain moment might deviate somehow from what was written in the title of the thread.
I think we should not judge too severely when that happens.
Readers who find no interest in the way a thread develops can simply ignore it.
Ed
******************************************

As of today, App Store user ratings for El Capitan are:

5 star: 217
4 star: 58
3 star: 40
2 star: 51
1 star: 304

It appears to be a new low. Most complaints are performance or bug related.

What puzzles me in these figures is that the large numbers are in extreme positions instead of being in the middle, as one should expect.

So, if we take these figures as representative (which might or might not be the case depending for instance on the sample size and the way the question was formulated) most users of El Capitan are either very satisfied or very disappointed.

Somehow it doesn't make sense for me, but I acknowledge that I know very little about how people react to opinion polls and how this influences statistics...
Ed

 

[nightcap965]

What puzzles me in these figures is that the large numbers are in extreme positions instead of being in the middle, as one should expect.

So, if we take these figures as representative (which might or might not be the case depending for instance on the sample size and the way the question was formulated) most users of El Capitan are either very satisfied or very disappointed.

Somehow it doesn't make sense for me, but I acknowledge that I know very little about how people react to opinion questioning and how this influences statistics...
Ed

Happy people generally don't give feedback. I'm delighted with El Capitan, and I know I've never posted an opinion on the App Store. I'm not saying the detractors are wrong - your mileage may vary and contents may have settled during shipping and handling. I'm just saying you shouldn't try to read too much into the feedback stats.