He's referring to the ancient 7970's apple rebranded as d700s. Unfortunately, they keep on banning the guy who can explain it best for whatever reason. He could possibly also be hinting at the lack of ram slots or the inability to upgrade beyond 128GB. I am not sure. He may even be hinting at nMP users reliance on second party storage and the additional costs of peripherals which is so well avoided when talking about what a great deal it is. Or perhaps he's referring to the paltry CPU offerings and the fact it's only in a single socket configuration. He could be referring to any of these things. Who knows!
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I just cancelled my nMP order
- Thread starter HD303
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
He's referring to the ancient 7970's apple rebranded as d700s. Unfortunately, they keep on banning the guy who can explain it best for whatever reason. He could possibly also be hinting at the lack of ram slots or the inability to upgrade beyond 128GB. I am not sure. He may even be hinting at nMP users reliance on second party storage and the additional costs of peripherals which is so well avoided when talking about what a great deal it is. Or perhaps he's referring to the paltry CPU offerings and the fact it's only in a single socket configuration. He could be referring to any of these things. Who knows!
The other thing about these purchases is the shaky ground of how the state claims rights to your purchase. Are they claiming because I'm a resident of that state, so ANY purchase I make is subject to tax? (similar to a import tax you have to pay in some countries when you bring "new" goods home?) Or are they claiming that because the computer IP address I made the order from happens to reside within the state, then they can claim a right? (Need to make all my big purchases in Oregon then).
----------
And yet, as you often pontificate on this, how many of the folks ordering need a 20-core 40TB storage 512GB ram 12-monitor system?
If you are building megalithic workstations, yeah, it's not a great solution. But how many here are doing that? (It appears there are a few that ARE doing it for their cat videos, but that's another story).
Yeah, it is expensive.
But the alternatives aren't great either. Try getting Thunderbolt working on a Hackintosh. Not a lot of success on that front over at TonyXmac86.
iMac? Even less expandability.
The only other real choice is a PC, but that comes with a significant software repurchase cost, and all the Windows issues.
I'll be the first to admit that the nMP isn't an ideal solution and that it's too expensive, but it's the best choice out of several mediocre choices for a system upgrade.
----------
And yet, as you often pontificate on this, how many of the folks ordering need a 20-core 40TB storage 512GB ram 12-monitor system?
If you are building megalithic workstations, yeah, it's not a great solution. But how many here are doing that? (It appears there are a few that ARE doing it for their cat videos, but that's another story).
Yeah, it is expensive.
But the alternatives aren't great either. Try getting Thunderbolt working on a Hackintosh. Not a lot of success on that front over at TonyXmac86.
iMac? Even less expandability.
The only other real choice is a PC, but that comes with a significant software repurchase cost, and all the Windows issues.
I'll be the first to admit that the nMP isn't an ideal solution and that it's too expensive, but it's the best choice out of several mediocre choices for a system upgrade.
Yup. It is what it is. If the specs suit your needs and you got a lot of money to blow on a computer. By all means, buy one. Shoot, buy two and use them as bongos for all I care. I'm pretty sure when i retire my oMPs later this year they will magically turn into two of these beauties:
http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/precision-t5610-workstation/pd?oc=CAP5610W7P0088
Plenty of people who buy workstation have over estimated their needs. Most if not all would be equally or better served with a 4 core i5 or i7 pc and a single decent gpu for half the price of the entry nMP model. This is especially true of those using Adobe products or software that is multi platform.
I understand that the nMP has great status symbol value, but for graphical/business... not so much. Especially if you factor in the cost of upgrading when tech evolve. I can upgrade the PC and still come out ahead cost wise. I could even replace it mid life cycle and meet the nMP starting cost and still use the old one as a render node if I do 3D.
Talk about expensive..
Building a comparable PC to what my nMP order is will cost $3k, perhaps a spec more. Problem is the software costs that go along with that would ultimately eliminate any cost savings.
Also most of the "build your own" systems that are touted here as the "50% cheaper than the nMP" are really underpowered... they'll use an i7 and a good graphics card, but then use some $100 MB. Great for Geekbench, not so great for actual workflows.
----------
Umm.. what I just posted about.. yes a PC with a i7 and a GTX780 will do great on geekbench, but that $100 MB is not going to buy you all the improvements that the nMP has.
Yes, again, the nMP is more expensive, but that PC will still cost you $3kish if you build it right, and then there's the software update costs.
Side note.. the folks who are already Adobe CC subscribers have it the easiest here. Not hard for them to jump platforms. A lot bigger challenge for those with legacy software that would have to be replaced, or those who don't want to commit to Adobe CC subs.
Talk about expensive..
Well, I mean, it's cheaper than a 12c nMP with 32Gb of ram....and you get 4 extra cores. The option to upgrade video later...drive bays...etc etc...things I could indeed forgo, but I'm not about to. So is it really expensive in comparison? Seems like a shoot-ton more computer for pretty much the same price.
Oh....and....one more thing....no 2 month wait for a stupid computer.
Last edited:
While that's technically true, I've never seen him suggest what card could have been used instead. The entire FirePro lineup right now is old. Nothing suitable has been released since mid-2012, when the W9000 (another relabled 7970) came out.
Well, I mean, it's cheaper than a 12c nMP with 32Gb of ram....and you get 4 extra cores. The option to upgrade video later...drive bays...etc etc...things I could indeed forgo, but I'm not about to. So is it really expensive in comparison? Seems like a shoot-ton more computer for pretty much the same price.
Oh....and....one more thing....no 2 month wait for a stupid computer.
Yup, it's still more expensive in my opinion. A 12-core nMP, with 32Gb RAM, double sized SSD (512), dual GPUs (instead of single) goes to 7300 USD. Add to that the TB2 ports that are also missing from the PC competitor.
Personally I'd choose a much cheaper configuration, but still on that range nMP seems a way better choice.
Sales tax may not be applicable on your purchase, but it is equally likely that your state has a use tax applicable on your use, which is intended to close the gap on people who evade their state sales tax by buying out of state. You can always be sure that government is watching.
The configuration you have mentioned is $7,699. Two D500 cards only put out a mere 2.2 teraflops vs the quadro 5000's 2.1. I'd say they are about even on performance as far as gpu's go, probably get more ram out of the dual set up. If you were talking about the d700s, your now paying $8,299. You've got some interesting math, to say the least.
Last edited:
I don't have that luxury. Upgrading to a nMP from a 1,1, and the "10.7.5 is not supported" notices are starting to appear.
That wouldn't be profitable on small purchases. On large ones that probably falls under sales tax evasion, which would be a felony. The problem with the current system is that it distorts the market. Brick and mortar has a more difficult time, because they are required to charge you sales tax. Online retailers don't have that requirement. If they decided not to use the sales tax model, they could instead use state income tax to offset sales tax, as sales tax only applies to consumer purchases. If you're purchasing something for resale and have the appropriate paperwork, it doesn't apply.
That's not a trick. Its tax fraud. Aside from the fact that knowingly deceiving the state government carries significant moral implications, as a practical matter, I cannot see failing to report a couple thousand dollars in purchases to avoid $130 in extra taxes (which, given that the tax is deductible from your income tax, for me means it costs me maybe $100 in out of pocket costs for being honest).
I am also a licensed practitioner of two different services and am an Ethics Professor. So, I have a lot to lose. That's not why I pay it though. I pay it because it is the law. YMMV
id rather use a mac than a pc you know the type of people are on this forum were going to buy macs and be ignorant, go to toms hardware to talk about dells and compaqs and whatever brand is not thriving
you know the type of people are on this forum were going to buy macs and be ignorant, go to toms hardware to talk about dells and compaqs and whatever brand is not thriving
Last edited:
I believe my math are fine (and so is Apple's in their US store page). The setup I mentioned is not including D500s. Starting from the basic minimal configuration, adding a 12-core, 512 ssd and 32Gb ram you end-up with a machine that has features the PC competitor can't cover, with a price of 7300 USD.
That is a double-sized SSD (which is a very important factor for me as the 256gb SSD is way too small), Thunderbolt 2 ports (actually 6 of them) while the PC has none, and dual GPUs for specific apps that can actually take advantage of them (I'm not talking about crossfire gaming here, obviously, so it is not directly comparable with the single GPU on the PC).
I won't even extend to the power consumption differences, the design/space differences, the operating systems and the fact that you can upgrade the ram from 3rd party sources to avoid Apple's prices. Again, in this price range, PC doesn't seem a better choice in my opinion.
My apologies I assumed you would compare systems with similar specs and not cherry pick. I am not really interested in what is adequate for your own use as it has no baring on what I do. If you could please point me to a similarly spec'd mac to the dell I listed I will buy it. Just make sure it has the ability to use nvidia gpus. Ty in advance.
Not trying to prove anything here, so I'm not cherry-picking anything. Just saying that an equivalent nMP configuration (as much as it can be equivalent since there are many differences between nMP and the PC counterpart) is not more pricey while offering less (this is not only my opinion, many sites reviewed nMP showed that it is actually cheaper than its internals cost in retail).
There is no nvidia gpus option, of course. There might be in the future, if nvidia decides to support opencl for real, instead of their own proprietary standard. I do get that someone's workflow can depend heavily from CUDA, and for these people nMP doesn't seem to be a viable option right now. That's a different conversation, though. Just saying that PC is not actually that cheaper.
All other buyers waiting now for delivery will say Thank You!
It was clear from the very beginning that a nMP unless found in a stock configuration somewhere, meant waiting for it.
Most people do not buy such a special machine before thinking over all the pros and all the cons, including of course their budget.
Time is just one of the many aspects to consider.
It took me a couple of months to decide to order on line and I am probably not the only one, taking into account just the high price if not all the other factors.
Everyone is free to change his mind in any free country.
However unless one risks bankruptcy by waiting 2 months, I do not believe that a well thought decision is so easily cancelled.
I can only add that one pending order less means one delivery machine more for the rest of the buyers.
And saying that you might reconsider it again in a certain number of months does not show any additional sign of a well thought order...
If you feel fine, I am glad for you, as well as for the rest of us still waiting and far from thinking to cancel our orders.
As for hackintoshes, also mentioned by someone, good luck with such a thing.
They are nothing new, but still most people prefer the true thing.
They must know why...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was clear from the very beginning that a nMP unless found in a stock configuration somewhere, meant waiting for it.
Most people do not buy such a special machine before thinking over all the pros and all the cons, including of course their budget.
Time is just one of the many aspects to consider.
It took me a couple of months to decide to order on line and I am probably not the only one, taking into account just the high price if not all the other factors.
Everyone is free to change his mind in any free country.
However unless one risks bankruptcy by waiting 2 months, I do not believe that a well thought decision is so easily cancelled.
I can only add that one pending order less means one delivery machine more for the rest of the buyers.
And saying that you might reconsider it again in a certain number of months does not show any additional sign of a well thought order...
If you feel fine, I am glad for you, as well as for the rest of us still waiting and far from thinking to cancel our orders.
As for hackintoshes, also mentioned by someone, good luck with such a thing.
They are nothing new, but still most people prefer the true thing.
They must know why...