I know web browsing sucks, but lets think about why

[macmee]

Even leopard-webkit is quite laggy on my 1.5ghz G4 powerbook. It seems to me that three things slow webpages down:

1. interactive content

2. loading images

3. webpages with many resources on them, JS, CSS, Images, anything which triggers many more web requests.

4. (but already fixed with glimmerblock) ads

It would be pretty easy to build extensions for TenFourFox to deal with these ^ problems and maybe such extensions already exist, but TenFourFox is painfully slow on my 1.5ghz G4 Powerbook.

So I was wondering, are there mods of leopard-webkit out there which 1) proxy images through something to scale them down (or not load big ones at all), that 2) blocks <video> tags and <iframe> until you click on them, and 3) somehow reduces the amount of requests webpages require to load, perhaps by creating spritesheets on an external box, or merging resource files together. Opera used to have a service for mobile phones with not much data that did this. It was like a proxy where it would basically compress images down, and merge resource files together to reduce data, but this would also have the same effect of increasing performance.

 

[ApplesDotCom101]

I would say you try out uMatrix, it removes connections to ads so they don't appear and its free

1. interactive content

2. loading images

3. webpages with many resources on them, JS, CSS, Images, anything which triggers many more web requests.

4. (but already fixed with glimmerblock) ads

uMatrix solves all of that. (but images load faster) i haven't tried interactive content yet tho

 

[CooperBox]

Even leopard-webkit is quite laggy on my 1.5ghz G4 powerbook. It seems to me that three things slow webpages down:

1. interactive content

2. loading images

3. webpages with many resources on them, JS, CSS, Images, anything which triggers many more web requests.

4. (but already fixed with glimmerblock) ads

It would be pretty easy to build extensions for TenFourFox to deal with these ^ problems and maybe such extensions already exist, but TenFourFox is painfully slow on my 1.5ghz G4 Powerbook.

So I was wondering, are there mods of leopard-webkit out there which 1) proxy images through something to scale them down (or not load big ones at all), that 2) blocks <video> tags and <iframe> until you click on them, and 3) somehow reduces the amount of requests webpages require to load, perhaps by creating spritesheets on an external box, or merging resource files together. Opera used to have a service for mobile phones with not much data that did this. It was like a proxy where it would basically compress images down, and merge resource files together to reduce data, but this would also have the same effect of increasing performance.

I must disagree with your subject title, as in general web browsing shouldn't 'suck' on a PPC system if correctly set-up.
This reply is coming to you from a 1GHz G4 TiBook with 1GB RAM and running OS Tiger with TFF 45.4. uMatrix and BluHell are present in the upper toolbar, and I also have the very highly recommended config tweaks installed.
Unlike your own, my web-browsing is FAST imho, and a joy to use.
To substantiate these comments, on opening TFF for this session, it opened directly to this forum in 20secs. Now to open a second tab to a Craigslist-like site with mutiple photos and time how long to load.....
12 secs with at least 9 thumbnail photos already present. That is what I call a more than satisfactory browsing experience. (I'm connected via ethernet and a Devolo PowerLine Adapter).
I've never tried Leopard webkit so unable to comment there, but I do run Leopard on several other PPC machines including my very favourite 1.25 GHz G4 iMac, and together with TFF and the same add-ons as indicated above, the surfing experience is truly excellent.
A little careful tuning with your own system, and you should be in for a pleasant surprise.
Once again many thanks to those folks on this forum who have helped our PPC Macs to enjoy a new lease of life.

 

[macmee]

I must disagree with your subject title, as in general web browsing shouldn't 'suck' on a PPC system if correctly set-up.
This reply is coming to you from a 1GHz G4 TiBook with 1GB RAM and running OS Tiger with TFF 45.4. uMatrix and BluHell are present in the upper toolbar, and I also have the very highly recommended config tweaks installed.
Unlike your own, my web-browsing is FAST imho, and a joy to use.
To substantiate these comments, on opening TFF for this session, it opened directly to this forum in 20secs. Now to open a second tab to a Craigslist-like site with mutiple photos and time how long to load.....
12 secs with at least 9 thumbnail photos already present. That is what I call a more than satisfactory browsing experience. (I'm connected via ethernet and a Devolo PowerLine Adapter).
I've never tried Leopard webkit so unable to comment there, but I do run Leopard on several other PPC machines including my very favourite 1.25 GHz G4 iMac, and together with TFF and the same add-ons as indicated above, the surfing experience is truly excellent.
A little careful tuning with your own system, and you should be in for a pleasant surprise.
Once again many thanks to those folks on this forum who have helped our PPC Macs to enjoy a new lease of life.

In TFT I am running pref.js from this post:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/my-tenfourfox-about-config-tweaks-and-my-addons.1838393/

and it opens slow, works slow, etc. I will post a video of it in a bit.

 

[MagicBoy]

It's mainly modern websites that are JS heavy and do a lot of client side processing that perform slowly IME. Comparing my two TiBooks (667MHz and an 867MHz with L3) the later machine is much quicker on these types of website (eg FaceBook, Slack) than the pure clockspeed increase. The dual G5 is a another step again.

Images are fine. I can browse an image heavy thread on an "old" vBulletin forum that uses server side PHP and the 667MHz TiBook is very responsive. XenForo as used here is noticeably less responsive, so the

With TFF the overhead of interactive 3rd party content and ads can be almost eliminated with the BluHell Firewall.

The web browsers available for PowerPC OS X don't help matters much. All credit to Cameron Kaiser for his work on TFF, it's a stunning achievement and one that's appreciated, however I suspect performance on the faster PowerPC Macs is being held back by everything running in a single process due to the main Firefox design lagging behind the more modern (Intel) implementations of Webkit.

 

[macmee]

It's mainly modern websites that are JS heavy and do a lot of client side processing that perform slowly IME. Comparing my two TiBooks (667MHz and an 867MHz with L3) the later machine is much quicker on these types of website (eg FaceBook, Slack) than the pure clockspeed increase. The dual G5 is a another step again.

Images are fine. I can browse an image heavy thread on an "old" vBulletin forum that uses server side PHP and the 667MHz TiBook is very responsive. XenForo as used here is noticeably less responsive, so the

With TFF the overhead of interactive 3rd party content and ads can be almost eliminated with the BluHell Firewall.

The web browsers available for PowerPC OS X don't help matters much. All credit to Cameron Kaiser for his work on TFF, it's a stunning achievement and one that's appreciated, however I suspect performance on the faster PowerPC Macs is being held back by everything running in a single process due to the main Firefox design lagging behind the more modern (Intel) implementations of Webkit.

TFT for me isn't even usable sadly. I am running a powerbook 1.5ghz with 1.5gb of ram. TFT takes 23 dock bounces to open, then about 3-5 additional seconds before the UI is intractable. Then if I load a webpage with hardly any interactive content, like reddit.com, it takes 15 to 20 seconds, and is barely scrollable. A more heavy website such as engadget.com freezes TFT. In contrast, leopard-webkit loads pages slowly but is more usable, doesn't freeze up completely, etc.

I'm using prefs.js downloaded directly out of the stickied thread, and I'm running the 7450 build. I've ordered some ebay items and am upgrading to 2GB of ram, and to one of those kingspec PATA SSD's, so maybe that will help.

 

[eyoungren]

TFT for me isn't even usable sadly. I am running a powerbook 1.5ghz with 1.5gb of ram. TFT takes 23 dock bounces to open, then about 3-5 additional seconds before the UI is intractable. Then if I load a webpage with hardly any interactive content, like reddit.com, it takes 15 to 20 seconds, and is barely scrollable. A more heavy website such as engadget.com freezes TFT. In contrast, leopard-webkit loads pages slowly but is more usable, doesn't freeze up completely, etc.

I'm using prefs.js downloaded directly out of the stickied thread, and I'm running the 7450 build.

Some questions…

How much ram do you have?
Are you using any addons such as AdBlock Plus or any of it's derivatives? Ghostery?
When using T4Fx (I assume your abbreviation of TFT is the same?) do you have Glimmerblocker disabled? In my personal opinion Glimmerblocker is not worth the hassle as it causes other problems.
Have you made any other modifications to your T4Fx preferences or to about:config since starting to use my prefs.js file?
Do you connect to the internet through dial-up or do you have a dedicated cable/DSL connection?

I'm asking because your experience using my pref.js file is not typical. Most people see a speed increase. Now, due to the initial processes that start when you launch T4Fx it's always got a bit of lag time, but it shouldn't be what you describe.

 

[macmee]

Some questions…

How much ram do you have?
Are you using any addons such as AdBlock Plus or any of it's derivatives? Ghostery?
When using T4Fx (I assume your abbreviation of TFT is the same?) do you have Glimmerblocker disabled? In my personal opinion Glimmerblocker is not worth the hassle as it causes other problems.
Have you made any other modifications to your T4Fx preferences or to about:config since starting to use my prefs.js file?
Do you connect to the internet through dial-up or do you have a dedicated cable/DSL connection?

I'm asking because your experience using my pref.js file is not typical. Most people see a speed increase. Now, due to the initial processes that start when you launch T4Fx it's always got a bit of lag time, but it shouldn't be what you describe.

I am running glimmerblocker to block ads yes, but that works on the DNS level, right? Also running 1.5GB of RAM. No other modifications to T4Tx, and I'm using wifi, I have a 1gbps connection although the powerbook doesn't reach those speeds, of course. The entire app also completely freezes when I try and visit youtube.com, which oddly enough leopard-webkit seems to load quite quickly, including the ad (which glimmerblock apparently fails to block!)

 

[eyoungren]

I am running glimmerblocker to block ads yes, but that works on the DNS level, right? Also running 1.5GB of RAM. No other modifications to T4Tx, and I'm using wifi, I have a 1gbps connection although the powerbook doesn't reach those speeds, of course. The entire app also completely freezes when I try and visit youtube.com, which oddly enough leopard-webkit seems to load quite quickly, including the ad (which glimmerblock apparently fails to block!)

Ahhhhh! Are most of your problems on Youtube?

Because, if so, this is one of those times where T4Fx will fail you. If you're going to be using Youtube use Safari or Webkit. I do so myself.

But if there are other sites you have issues with then I might suggest disabling Glimmerblocker. Installing uMatrix and BluHell Firewall inside T4Fx will also help.

I know why you have Glimmerblocker installed (because of Safari/Webkit) but it's always best to use addons for T4Fx. For whatever reason I've always found GB to be glitchy with T4Fx and to just slow things down.

I had too many problems with GB to continue using it and I don't use Safari/Webkit all that much to justify it. I'm not saying you should uninstall it but again, try disabling it with T4Fx and then using the other two addons I mentioned. uMatrix will block Javascript you don't want including analytics. BHF will block ads. I've only seen BHF fail on one website and that's Facebook.

The reason I asked about your connection is that my settings are extreme and are designed for getting the most out of a direct connection. Had your connection been dialup they would be detrimental to you.

 

[MagicBoy]

TFT for me isn't even usable sadly. I am running a powerbook 1.5ghz with 1.5gb of ram. TFT takes 23 dock bounces to open, then about 3-5 additional seconds before the UI is intractable. Then if I load a webpage with hardly any interactive content, like reddit.com, it takes 15 to 20 seconds, and is barely scrollable. A more heavy website such as engadget.com freezes TFT. In contrast, leopard-webkit loads pages slowly but is more usable, doesn't freeze up completely, etc.

Unscientific experiment time....

Latest TFF, prefs file from here and BH firewall. Reddit.com from a cold boot. Not visited before so it's uncached :-
TiBook 667Mhz, 1GB RAM, 7200rpm HDD, OS X 10.4 : 25 bounces to open, then about 5 seconds for the UI. 17 seconds to open Reddit.
TiBook 867Mhz, 512MB RAM, 5400rpm HDD, OS X 10.5 : 13 bounces, 3 seconds, 8 seconds to open Reddit.
PowerMac G5 2.0 DP, 8GB RAM, 7200rpm HDD, OS X 10.5 : 8 bounces, under 2 seconds. 4 seconds to open Reddit.

 

[macmee]

Unscientific experiment time....

Latest TFF, prefs file from here and BH firewall. Reddit.com from a cold boot. Not visited before so it's uncached :-
TiBook 667Mhz, 1GB RAM, 7200rpm HDD, OS X 10.4 : 25 bounces to open, then about 5 seconds for the UI. 17 seconds to open Reddit.
TiBook 867Mhz, 512MB RAM, 5400rpm HDD, OS X 10.5 : 13 bounces, 3 seconds, 8 seconds to open Reddit.
PowerMac G5 2.0 DP, 8GB RAM, 7200rpm HDD, OS X 10.5 : 8 bounces, under 2 seconds. 4 seconds to open Reddit.

Hey, thanks for these stats. Following eyoungren's advice my performance has improved quite a lot, although your 867mhz TiBook still has much better launch times from a cold boot than what I'm seeing. I'm pretty sure something is up with my hard drive.

Ahhhhh! Are most of your problems on Youtube?

Because, if so, this is one of those times where T4Fx will fail you. If you're going to be using Youtube use Safari or Webkit. I do so myself.

But if there are other sites you have issues with then I might suggest disabling Glimmerblocker. Installing uMatrix and BluHell Firewall inside T4Fx will also help.

I know why you have Glimmerblocker installed (because of Safari/Webkit) but it's always best to use addons for T4Fx. For whatever reason I've always found GB to be glitchy with T4Fx and to just slow things down.

I had too many problems with GB to continue using it and I don't use Safari/Webkit all that much to justify it. I'm not saying you should uninstall it but again, try disabling it with T4Fx and then using the other two addons I mentioned. uMatrix will block Javascript you don't want including analytics. BHF will block ads. I've only seen BHF fail on one website and that's Facebook.

The reason I asked about your connection is that my settings are extreme and are designed for getting the most out of a direct connection. Had your connection been dialup they would be detrimental to you.

Ok after work yesterday I removed GB, installed umatrix and BHF and it's much better! It's still not as fast as I think it should be but the improvement is noticeable. The only other problem left is that it takes (at very most) 30 bounces now to launch. I am quite sure something is weird with my hard drive, so when my startec SSD comes in, this problem should probably be fixed. Thank you for all your advice by the way - youtube is even playable for me ATM in T4Fx!

 

[tibilon]

For me TFF is good for browsing, even fb seems a quite ok for it but for yt i use safari. So, Safari YT is a little bit tweaking in yt/html5 mod. I'm listening music on it so I don't care too much but is any possibility to improve it?

I must admit that i'm in love with my mini g4

 

[macmee]

For me TFF is good for browsing, even fb seems a quite ok for it but for yt i use safari. So, Safari YT is a little bit tweaking in yt/html5 mod. I'm listening music on it so I don't care too much but is any possibility to improve it?

I must admit that i'm in love with my mini g4

YouTube is better in safari, you're right! But I can't stand the ads on youtube and at the start of videos

 

[XaPHER]

I can suggest to switch your useragent string in the development menu to safari 4.3.3 (ipad) for safari to avoid ads. Works well with my 2005 iBook and Leopard Webkit, much lighter and no ads.

 

[Mildredop]

Even leopard-webkit is quite laggy on my 1.5ghz G4 powerbook. It seems to me that three things slow webpages down:

1. interactive content

2. loading images

3. webpages with many resources on them, JS, CSS, Images, anything which triggers many more web requests.

4. (but already fixed with glimmerblock) ads

It would be pretty easy to build extensions for TenFourFox to deal with these ^ problems and maybe such extensions already exist, but TenFourFox is painfully slow on my 1.5ghz G4 Powerbook.

So I was wondering, are there mods of leopard-webkit out there which 1) proxy images through something to scale them down (or not load big ones at all), that 2) blocks <video> tags and <iframe> until you click on them, and 3) somehow reduces the amount of requests webpages require to load, perhaps by creating spritesheets on an external box, or merging resource files together. Opera used to have a service for mobile phones with not much data that did this. It was like a proxy where it would basically compress images down, and merge resource files together to reduce data, but this would also have the same effect of increasing performance.

Without number 4 most of the webpages you enjoy navigating to simply wouldn't exist.

 

[macmee]

Without number 4 most of the webpages you enjoy navigating to simply wouldn't exist.

ehhhhhhh I don't feel bad blocking ads on youtube.

I can suggest to switch your useragent string in the development menu to safari 4.3.3 (ipad) for safari to avoid ads. Works well with my 2005 iBook and Leopard Webkit, much lighter and no ads.

This is an amazing idea! I will try it.

 

[Mildredop]

ehhhhhhh I don't feel bad blocking ads on youtube.

I think you should feel bad. The internet is only where it is through the billions that companies have spent through advertising. You get nothing for free!

It's easy to block adverts but, if you were running a company, you'd want to engage with potential customers too.

 

[Cox Orange]

I'm pretty sure something is up with my hard drive.

First install the demo of Volitan SMart Utility to see, if there is any degradation of your HDD that is quickly and easily doable. (There would be more apt and tme consuming test, but see *)

I wonder, if fragmentation could also be an issue, why people with the same specs and same tweaks and same site tested have different experiences (well of course the internet connection is another factor). How old is the OS installation, we use? Was it reinstalled anytime?

It is a/my guess out of desperation, but if you like to try:
Download SuperDuper and backup your whole system as a bootable clone to an external drive. Backup will take long, because it is not just cloning, but writing every file after the other (in other words, it is defragmenting the Hard Drive along backing up).

Then
a) start form the backup, if your external drive is a firewire drive
b) from a CD/DVD, if your external drive is USB

Spoiler: steps that can be left out

* if you want to do a more thorough test of your HDD, write the internal HDD full with data and open SMart Utility again and note the results or save the result sheet or a screenshot to an external empty USB flash stick. Then use disc utility to write 1 run of zeros on the internal HDD and look at the smart values again. Look out for bad chages.

If you leave out the steps in this box, jump to "and open..." after you chose a) or b)

and open SuperDuper on the external HDD and copy the backup back to your internal HDD (you can also try using Disc Utility and "restore from backup/image")

You could also try with a new installation of TFFx from scratch.