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I might have to go with Intel for my next laptop

P

pshufd

macrumors G4
Original poster
Oct 24, 2013
10,259
14,622
New Hampshire
Both of the pro programs I use run significantly slower on M1 compared to Windows Intel. I don't think that the additional cores of the M1X will solve the problem. This makes for somewhat of a conundrum as I had been looking forward to the battery life and thermals of the M1X. I also have to consider the potential that Apple will stop selling the Intel model after they introduce the Apple Silicon model.

The programs I use are Fidelity Active Trader Pro and Ameritrade Think or Swim.

Everything else that I've tested runs fine on Apple Silicon. There are a few other programs that I haven't tested yet.
 
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pshufd said:
Both of the pro programs I use run significantly slower on M1 compared to Windows Intel. I don't think that the additional cores of the M1X will solve the problem. This makes for somewhat of a conundrum as I had been looking forward to the battery life and thermals of the M1X. I also have to consider the potential that Apple will stop selling the Intel model after they introduce the Apple Silicon model.

The programs I use are Fidelity Active Trader Pro and Ameritrade Think or Swim.

Everything else that I've tested runs fine on Apple Silicon. There are a few other programs that I haven't tested yet.
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I have no experience with the software you mentioned.

Is it possible that a new version comes out optimized for the M-series processors? The M1 was released less than a year ago, and many companies have not yet upgraded their software to take full advantage of it.
 
skaertus said:
I have no experience with the software you mentioned.

Is it possible that a new version comes out optimized for the M-series processors? The M1 was released less than a year ago, and many companies have not yet upgraded their software to take full advantage of it.
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One of them was written on a platform from the 1990s and it runs through WINE so I don't expect a native version. They would need to rewrite their entire application and, if they haven't done so in the past decade, there's no reason to think that they will do so in the next decade unless Apple gets rid of Rosetta 2.

The other software is Java-based so I think that they just need to swap in an M1-based Java interpreter and build a separate kit for M1. These companies move in glacial terms and I suspect that it would take Apple getting rid of Rosetta 2 to result in such an outcry from customers for them to do anything about it.

I imagine that these aren't the only two big programs in this situation.
 
Unfortunate that you have run into this issue. The M1 Macs seem to be great machines, so it is too bad you might have to get a different computer for trading. The other option is to buy a cheap PC just for this purpose.
 
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R.T.J. said:
I have no clue why you are using a mac to run those softwares, it is way overkill and a waste of resources. You could have a cheap pc running that with no problem.
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I normally run it on a large Windows desktop. But I would like something for when I'm traveling. I have run these programs on my 2015 MacBook Pro 15 when on the road and they do run. They run slow and get the fans spinning but it is usable. I was hoping that the M1X MacBook Pros would give me long battery life, and great performance to run these programs on the road.

I don't know how well my stuff would run on a cheap PC. My Windows setup has run around $2,500 so far.

I have a friend who runs this kind of a workload on a Mac Pro. I helped him spec out his system last year. I considered a Mac Pro but spending $6,700 for a fairly basic system when I could build far less had me go the DIY route. I still prefer macOS to Windows though.
 
pshufd said:
I normally run it on a large Windows desktop. But I would like something for when I'm traveling. I have run these programs on my 2015 MacBook Pro 15 when on the road and they do run. They run slow and get the fans spinning but it is usable. I was hoping that the M1X MacBook Pros would give me long battery life, and great performance to run these programs on the road.

I don't know how well my stuff would run on a cheap PC. My Windows setup has run around $2,500 so far.

I have a friend who runs this kind of a workload on a Mac Pro. I helped him spec out his system last year. I considered a Mac Pro but spending $6,700 for a fairly basic system when I could build far less had me go the DIY route. I still prefer macOS to Windows though.
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Another way could be to build a PC and log remotely from a MBP via Chrome. I have no clue how those software operates but I used to do that when traveling having my computer at home connected and via... I forgot the name of the app but it worked like a charm.
 
Fidelity's Mac solution with its Active Trader Pro is an unusable mess of you know what. It is just terrible and it does not surprise me that it continues to function poorly on the M-1. It is non-native software that needs Wine emulation to run so it's horrible -- barely functional on Mac. I wish Fidelity would get its act together because it is a very good broker in general. On the other hand, Think or Swim runs great on my Intel based Macs. It is a pleasure to use and that is why I use it daily. I hope TD or Schwab will re-write it to run natively on the M1. Until then, however, I need to stay put with Intel.
 
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pshufd said:
I normally run it on a large Windows desktop. But I would like something for when I'm traveling. I have run these programs on my 2015 MacBook Pro 15 when on the road and they do run. They run slow and get the fans spinning but it is usable. I was hoping that the M1X MacBook Pros would give me long battery life, and great performance to run these programs on the road.

I don't know how well my stuff would run on a cheap PC. My Windows setup has run around $2,500 so far.

I have a friend who runs this kind of a workload on a Mac Pro. I helped him spec out his system last year. I considered a Mac Pro but spending $6,700 for a fairly basic system when I could build far less had me go the DIY route. I still prefer macOS to Windows though.
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For stuff like this I run virtual machines at home's server but might as well be just a windows desktop your have. My mac is just a terminal. (still the the old 2015 but I am looking forward to upgrade as soon the next M1/2 is out).
I am using VPN to get into my home network when I am away and then just RDP to either windows desktop or one of my virtual machines.
If you know enough about VPN, routers and how to use outside IP address etc, then consider doing something like that.
My mac is just a terminal and a web browser for most of the work related stuff.
 
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R.T.J. said:
Another way could be to build a PC and log remotely from a MBP via Chrome. I have no clue how those software operates but I used to do that when traveling having my computer at home connected and via... I forgot the name of the app but it worked like a charm.
Click to expand...

I'm driving 2x4k monitors on my Windows desktop. When I run on the laptop, it's a native 2,880x1800 using different virtual desktops. That's a lot of graphical data to pump through a hotel WiFi connection and I couldn't do it because it's dual monitor. I am somewhat opposed to running a server on my system through a third-party. That stuff was banned at the previous place where I worked.
 
I'd second Fishrrman's observation. My rule of thumb is to see what my client needs to run in terms of software, and then recommend the proper hardware to run it.
 
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sgtaylor5 said:
I'd second Fishrrman's observation. My rule of thumb is to see what my client needs to run in terms of software, and then recommend the proper hardware to run it.
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Yeah, I have the proper hardware on the desktops.

I was hoping for something good for mobile. We haven't traveled much during the pandemic but things are opening up again (hope they don't close back down), and I've been waiting for something great from Apple. There are paid platforms too though they may suffer from the same problems.

I did some digging around and ToS uses Oracle JRE and they don't have a native port. So the issue is Oracle, not Ameritrade. I also found a number of threads discussing the general issue of running Java on M1 Macs and the suggestion is to use Azul Zulu builds which do have native Apple Silicon builds at https://www.azul.com/downloads/?os=macos&architecture=arm-64-bit&package=jdk

This will take some playing around to try to get this to work. I'll have to look around these forums to see if there's a generic Java thread on running natively on Apple Silicon. My guess is that most just run it through Rosetta 2.

Right now the proper hardware would be to keep using my 2015 MacBook Pro, get a 16 Intel or something like an LG Gram 17. I just really would like to move everything over to macOS.
 
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pshufd said:
Both of the pro programs I use run significantly slower on M1 compared to Windows Intel. I don't think that the additional cores of the M1X will solve the problem. This makes for somewhat of a conundrum as I had been looking forward to the battery life and thermals of the M1X. I also have to consider the potential that Apple will stop selling the Intel model after they introduce the Apple Silicon model.

The programs I use are Fidelity Active Trader Pro and Ameritrade Think or Swim.

Everything else that I've tested runs fine on Apple Silicon. There are a few other programs that I haven't tested yet.
Click to expand...
active trader ran like garbage when I used it on my MBP 16 inch. I called Fidelity and complained. They told me they are in the process of upgrading software. I asked if people complain about their apps and she said yes. Active trader looks and runs like its 1999. Its probably terrible on all computers.
 
Lucas Curious said:
active trader ran like garbage when I used it on my MBP 16 inch. I called Fidelity and complained. They told me they are in the process of upgrading software. I asked if people complain about their apps and she said yes. Active trader looks and runs like its 1999. Its probably terrible on all computers.
Click to expand...

It's fine on my Windows 10 desktop with i7-10700, 128 GB RAM, 5 TB SSD, GTX 1050 ti and GT 1030. It runs on macOS Intel via WINE so you take a hit even on macOS Intel. Then a double-hit on M1 as it has to also go through Rosetta 2.

Fidelity is putting effort into their Mobile apps but there's only so much you can do on the small screen.
 
pshufd said:
It's fine on my Windows 10 desktop with i7-10700, 128 GB RAM, 5 TB SSD, GTX 1050 ti and GT 1030. It runs on macOS Intel via WINE so you take a hit even on macOS Intel. Then a double-hit on M1 as it has to also go through Rosetta 2.

Fidelity is putting effort into their Mobile apps but there's only so much you can do on the small screen.
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good to know but Fidelity is awful with software design. so many users yet so little effort into software. its like they are penny pinching over there. How hard can it be to make their App more appealing like Robinhood
 
I’ll likely be in a similar situation soon. My 15” mbp is pretty old and I have no confidence that my work software will be transitioned to Apple silicon any time soon. And performance is paramount for work so Rosetta is not likely an option either (would need to test to confirm). So I’d need a laptop with Intel. But the options are pretty bad at the moment. Either I buy a mbp with a chip from 2018, or I go back to Windows which I would hate to do.
 
Lucas Curious said:
good to know but Fidelity is awful with software design. so many users yet so little effort into software. its like they are penny pinching over there. How hard can it be to make their App more appealing like Robinhood
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It is odd. I was over at one of their facilities a few weeks ago hitting tennis balls. It's a beautiful campus with well-maintained tennis courts, basketball courts, forest land and a huge pond with a walking trail around it. They have benches near the trail so that employees can sit and enjoy lunch or take a break. I play with a broker who works there.

They have nice offices in cities around the country that are nice and those cost money to operate.

They are known for paying well in my area too.

Companies can be really good in some areas and not in others. Fidelity also advertises for COBOL programmers from time to time so they have a wide variety of IT operations.
 
Have you tried running the iPad versions of those apps on an M1 device to see if that would work?
 
PBG4 Dude said:
Have you tried running the iPad versions of those apps on an M1 device to see if that would work?
Click to expand...

The iPad version of ToS is neutered crap. I run 88 Real-Time charts off a 4k monitor. Doesn't seem all that useful on an iPad.

I'm unaware of Fidelity having a pro trading platform on mobile apps. But, same deal, I run 15 studies simultaneously on a 4k monitor. The iPad is a toy as far as I'm concerned.
 
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We have a solution worked out on Reddit with one person with success. I am trying his solution though his directions have problems. The solution is to download the non-platform Java program and then run it with Azul JDK for Apple Silicon v11. A couple of files have to be replaced in the ToS kit and that's the tricky part.
 
pshufd said:
We have a solution worked out on Reddit with one person with success. I am trying his solution though his directions have problems. The solution is to download the non-platform Java program and then run it with Azul JDK for Apple Silicon v11. A couple of files have to be replaced in the ToS kit and that's the tricky part.
Click to expand...
Let me know if this ended up working out for you. I am in the same boat. I am a full-time trader that uses ThinkOrSwim but making the full shift to MacOS and not sure whether to stay on 16 inch Intel MBP or try M1 again... the M1 seems to have bugs and not work well for scalping especially.
 
corello said:
Let me know if this ended up working out for you. I am in the same boat. I am a full-time trader that uses ThinkOrSwim but making the full shift to MacOS and not sure whether to stay on 16 inch Intel MBP or try M1 again... the M1 seems to have bugs and not work well for scalping especially.
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I'm using ToS on my Intel desktop for now until the M1X comes out. The M1 systems don't have enough horsepower and RAM for me to run my full trading setup and office setup. The procedure does work but the directory changes with every update so I need to write a script to automatically deal with that. I will take a look at it later on today.

I also run Fidelity Active Trader Pro on the Windows desktop. I don't think that there's a good way to get good performance out of that program unless Fidelity does a rewrite.
 
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