I need help with my new Macintosh Classic

[Poki]

Hey guys,

a friend happened to stumble upon an old Macintosh Classic, since he knew I‘m into some Apple stuff he generously gave it to me. It came without a power cable, keyboard or mouse, so I don‘t even know if it works yet.

Now, that computer is older than me, so I need some help. First, are there any compact ADB keyboards I could use with that computer? Since I professionally have to write a lot of stuff I want to use it for that task, but I don‘t like the old keyboards, I‘d much rather use something more similar to the Magic Keyboard, is there any way to do this?

Also, will I most probably have to change the battery on the mainboard? And will I need a Mac OS floppy to get it to run at all?

I‘ll update you once I know if it works and which specs it has.

 

[barbu]

There were ADB-USB adapters back in the early iMac days. You may still be able to find one (iMate? I think they were called). But I think that was adapt the other way. Not sure if they are bi-directional.
I think the Apple desktop Keyboard II (?) is the standard for best ADB keyboard.

 

[Poki]

There were ADB-USB adapters back in the early iMac days. You may still be able to find one (iMate? I think they were called). But I think that was adapt the other way. Not sure if they are bi-directional.
I think the Apple desktop Keyboard II (?) is the standard for best ADB keyboard.

Thanks, yep, the iMate was for using ADB keyboards with USB Macs, not the other way around. Seems like it might be pretty difficult to do this :

Bringing USB Devices To The Apple Desktop Bus

During the development of the greatest member of the Apple II family, the Apple IIgs, someone suggested to [Woz] that a sort of universal serial bus was needed for keyboards, mice, trackballs, and …

hackaday.com

[automerge]1582240298[/automerge]
Well, this could solve my first problem, would be great if it worked with wireless keyboards with USB dongles.

ADB-USB Wombat Input Converter

Use a modern optical mouse with your vintage Macintosh, or a retro ADB keyboard on your modern PC. An indispensable tool for Apple collectors. ADB-USB Wombat is a bidirectional input converter for USB and ADB keyboards and mice. It works in two directions, connecting modern USB peripherals to a...

www.bigmessowires.com

 

[repairedCheese]

I'm not 100% on this, but I believe it supports 1.44mb floppy disks, so any should do. That should make getting software on it a lot easier.

 

[bobesch]

Hey guys,
a friend happened to stumble upon an old Macintosh Classic, since he knew I‘m into some Apple stuff he generously gave it to me. It came without a power cable, keyboard or mouse, so I don‘t even know if it works yet.
Now, that computer is older than me, so I need some help. First, are there any compact ADB keyboards I could use with that computer? Since I professionally have to write a lot of stuff I want to use it for that task, but I don‘t like the old keyboards, I‘d much rather use something more similar to the Magic Keyboard, is there any way to do this?
Also, will I most probably have to change the battery on the mainboard? And will I need a Mac OS floppy to get it to run at all?
I‘ll update you once I know if it works and which specs it has.

It's a 68k-system.
If you have to professionally write a lot of stuff and think about using that Macintosh Classic for that task: just forget about it - it does not fit any demands on current computing nor networking.
It's a piece of historic computing, better get a power cord and the fitting keyboard (BTW it's an ADB-keyboard) and mouse first. They are both fine to work with.
You may boot up System6 from RAM: "A feature unique to the Classic is the ability to boot from ROM by holding down command-option-x-o at startup" https://lowendmac.com/1990/mac-classic/
If you should need a floppy-disk for booting and want to use online-sources like macintoshgarden to get the software, you should take into account, that you'll need a pre-OSX-system to create appropriate floppy-disks for those early 68k systems.
I've recently got a working and fully aquipped Macintosh Classic as a donation and I can tell you, that even after a long research the 68k-era is a mystery to me! It's kind of a challenge, to make it part of and connected to my other PPC-Macs, but it's seriously nothing for professional writing, especially with a forced-in unfitting keyboard.

 

[Poki]

It's a 68k-system.
If you have to professionally write a lot of stuff and think about using that Macintosh Classic for that task: just forget about it - it does not fit any demands on current computing nor networking.
It's a piece of historic computing, better get a power cord and the fitting keyboard (BTW it's an ADB-keyboard) and mouse first. They are both fine to work with.
You may boot up System6 from RAM: "A feature unique to the Classic is the ability to boot from ROM by holding down command-option-x-o at startup" https://lowendmac.com/1990/mac-classic/
If you should need a floppy-disk for booting and want to use online-sources like macintoshgarden to get the software, you should take into account, that you'll need a pre-OSX-system to create appropriate floppy-disks for those early 68k systems.
I've recently got a working and fully aquipped Macintosh Classic as a donation and I can tell you, that even after a long research the 68k-era is a mystery to me! It's kind of a challenge, to make it part of and connected to my other PPC-Macs, but it's seriously nothing for professional writing, especially with a forced-in unfitting keyboard.

Thanks for your detailed reply. I absolutely don't plan to replace my modern Macs or my workflow with this Macintosh Classic, but I'd love to write some stuff on it, could be kinda like a typewriter experience because there aren't a lot of distractions. If I can figure out a way to get text files off the computer, I should be fine – the performance should be fast enough to type stuff, isn't it? Also I'd like to play some 80`s text adventures, if there are any good ones.

I'll see if I can get a power cable tomorrow to see if it works, and maybe I can find out if it has a hard drive.

 

[bobesch]

Thanks for your detailed reply. I absolutely don't plan to replace my modern Macs or my workflow with this Macintosh Classic, but I'd love to write some stuff on it, could be kinda like a typewriter experience because there aren't a lot of distractions. If I can figure out a way to get text files off the computer, I should be fine – the performance should be fast enough to type stuff, isn't it? Also I'd like to play some 80`s text adventures, if there are any good ones.
I'll see if I can get a power cable tomorrow to see if it works, and maybe I can find out if it has a hard drive.

Got it. Same intentions for me!
But to make a 68k Macintosh Classic part of something, you'll need a pre-OSX machine as a connecting link.
Love the idea of an unobstrusive type writer, but unfortunately a 68k machine isn't an appropriate machine to start with - at least not in the simple way.
Personally I like Clamshells & iMacsG3, os9 and the challenge of getting them connected with OSX an iOS!
If you want a kind of unobstrusive connected type writer, better go for a Clamshell or any other PPC "Book".

 

[Poki]

Got it. Same intentions for me!
But to make a 68k Macintosh Classic part of something, you'll need a pre-OSX machine as a connecting link.
Love the idea of an unobstrusive type writer, but unfortunately a 68k machine isn't an appropriate machine to start with - at least not in the simple way.
Personally I like Clamshells & iMacsG3, os9 and the challenge of getting them connected with OSX an iOS!
If you want a kind of unobstrusive connected type writer, better go for a Clamshell or any other PPC "Book".

Wouldn't it be possible to simply use 3.5 inch floppy disks to transfer files from the Macintosh Classic to a modern Mac using a USB floppy drive? I'm not sure if a HFS or FAT formatted floppy would work on both devices though.

Edit: Seems like HFS is no longer an option, but I can't find any information on FAT support in System 7 – is there a list of supported file systems out there?

 

[MacFoxG4]

Wouldn't it be possible to simply use 3.5 inch floppy disks to transfer files from the Macintosh Classic to a modern Mac using a USB floppy drive? I'm not sure if a HFS or FAT formatted floppy would work on both devices though.

Edit: Seems like HFS is no longer an option, but I can't find any information on FAT support in System 7 – is there a list of supported file systems out there?

System 7.5.x and up have PC (FAT) formatted floppy support built in (referred to as "PC Exchange"). Earlier versions of System 7 need PC Exchange to be installed separately.

 

[repairedCheese]

System 7.5.x and up have PC (FAT) formatted floppy support built in (referred to as "PC Exchange"). Earlier versions of System 7 need PC Exchange to be installed separately.

These older versions of the Mac OS can be convinced to reed fat formatted disks, but that tends to be a bad time if you're trying to use it for mac files. Fat doesn't store the resource fork, something that actually matters pre-osx. But if you're just moving files, keeping them in .sit compression should maintain things just fine.

 

[bobesch]

Wouldn't it be possible to simply use 3.5 inch floppy disks to transfer files from the Macintosh Classic to a modern Mac using a USB floppy drive? I'm not sure if a HFS or FAT formatted floppy would work on both devices though.
Edit: Seems like HFS is no longer an option, but I can't find any information on FAT support in System 7 – is there a list of supported file systems out there?

An os9-machine with os8/9 and an attached USB-floppy-drive could serve as the "mac in the middle" to provide files for OSX/iOS through NetPresenz -FTP-Server.

 

[repairedCheese]

Also, older versions of OSX can read and write HFS volumes, they call it Mac OS Standard, so a virtual machine of 10.4 or 10.5 would probably get the job done without having to worry about losing anything. Same goes for late PPC Macs. Emulators like Sheepshaver, for PPC Mac, or Basilisk II, for 68k Mac, should be able to write to actual HFS volumes, but I haven't tried anything like that in over a decade, and that was on windows at the time.

While you don't actually need an intermediary Mac to talk to such an old machine, you pretty much have to at least emulate or virtualize one, if you want to write to disks it can fully take advantage of.

 

[weckart]

Wouldn't it be possible to simply use 3.5 inch floppy disks to transfer files from the Macintosh Classic to a modern Mac using a USB floppy drive? I'm not sure if a HFS or FAT formatted floppy would work on both devices though.

Edit: Seems like HFS is no longer an option, but I can't find any information on FAT support in System 7 – is there a list of supported file systems out there?

Iomega Zip drives are an option - SCSI for the Classic and either SCSI, ATAPI or USB for the Mac. I even have a FW adapter for one of my USB Zip drives. HFS(+) works fine with those. If you grab hold of a basic SCSI card, you could also consider Jaz drives, which tend to be a bit more reliable. Any of those means spending money, however and SCSI Zip drives are still sought after by musicians for their legacy equipment.

 

[bobesch]

Next question that's nagging me is the search for the universal application to work with on all connected machines.
Currently I have Claris Work4 in my mind. Runs on 68k, PPC (os9 & Tiger/Classic and Win98/Win2k) and offer file transfer through modem-connection.

 

[Poki]

Thank you all for your input! I'll first try using a 3.5" floppy in FAT format and see where that leads me. However, seems like I'll have bigger problems to deal with first ... Does anyone know what's the most probable cause of this boot error (see image attached)?

Next question that's nagging me is the search for the universal application to work with on all connected machines.
Currently I have Claris Work4 in my mind. Runs on 68k, PPC (os9 & Tiger/Classic and Win98/Win2k) and offer file transfer through modem-connection.

I thought I just save everything as .txt file – I guess there's something like the modern TextEdit in System 7?

 

[bunnspecial]

Classic with screen artifacts+sad mac=almost 100% bad caps.

Actually, I should say that I've gotten into the habit of assuming all Classics have bad caps unless proven otherwise.

As for the original question-the Apple Keyboard II is small and has nice Alps mechanical switches. With that said, I don't particularly enjoy typing on them, as they fit a full keyboard(with numeric keypad) into a small form factor and it's just too cramped to me. I much prefer the Extended/Extended II Keyboard, although it could never be accused of being small.

 

[galgot]

Definitively needs changing the caps.
Or, you could try remove the main board, clean it in warm soapy water (carefully), leave it to dry 2 days.
Then it could maybe boot, but would be a temporary until the old caps leak again.
Do you hear the HD spinning ?

 

[Poki]

Definitively needs changing the caps.
Or, you could try remove the main board, clean it in warm soapy water (carefully), leave it to dry 2 days.
Then it could maybe boot, but would be a temporary until the old caps leak again.
Do you hear the HD spinning ?

Thanks, I really hope I can do that, but since the mainboard looks super simple, I will give it a try.

The Mac is louder than I expected, and since it doesn't have a fan (?), the noise should come from the hard drive, right?

Classic with screen artifacts+sad mac=almost 100% bad caps.

Actually, I should say that I've gotten into the habit of assuming all Classics have bad caps unless proven otherwise.

As for the original question-the Apple Keyboard II is small and has nice Alps mechanical switches. With that said, I don't particularly enjoy typing on them, as they fit a full keyboard(with numeric keypad) into a small form factor and it's just too cramped to me. I much prefer the Extended/Extended II Keyboard, although it could never be accused of being small.

I'll try my best to get replacement parts – I don't have a ton of experience with repairing transistors, but I guess with some video tutorials I might be able to do it.

As for the keyboard – I simply don't enjoy typing on these old-style keyboards with the long key travel. I will try to connect an actual Magic Keyboard through the USB-ADB-Wombat – the combination might looka little out of place, but it's cheaper than an Apple II keyboard and I know I will enjoy using it a lot more.

 

[galgot]

Thanks, I really hope I can do that, but since the mainboard looks super simple, I will give it a try.

The Mac is louder than I expected, and since it doesn't have a fan (?), the noise should come from the hard drive, right?




I'll try my best to get replacement parts – I don't have a ton of experience with repairing transistors, but I guess with some video tutorials I might be able to do it.

As for the keyboard – I simply don't enjoy typing on these old-style keyboards with the long key travel. I will try to connect an actual Magic Keyboard through the USB-ADB-Wombat – the combination might looka little out of place, but it's cheaper than an Apple II keyboard and I know I will enjoy using it a lot more.

It does have a fan. Anyway if you hear a buzzing noise increasing at boot (different from a fan noise), maybe the old SCSI drive is still good.

 

[bunnspecial]

Depending on how invasive/"redneck" you want to get, many old SCSI HDDs as installed on these computers had pins at the front for an access light.

If you have one laying around, it can be very useful for diagnostic purposes to see if the computer is poking the HDD at all, although when it boots to a sad mac there's likely not much if any drive activity. In my experience, the HDD in a Classic is USUALLY good(one of the few parts that is).

The numbers/letters under the Sad Mac are actually a hexidecimal error code that you can record and look up, but with failing caps it's not really that useful as it will generally throw a different one every time. The screen artifacts are tell-tale also of bad caps.

It's worth a peak inside also as I've seen more than my fair share that had its battery explode and cause a lot more damage to the board than caps ever will. Leaky cap damage is often repairable, while battery damage usually means that the board is trash, or at least on something like a Classic.

 

[Poki]

Soo ... just ordered a whole bunch of stuff, including an iFixit Pro Tech Toolkit, some floppy disks, an external floppy drive and the USB-ADB-adapter. I really hope I can get that thing to work.

As for the hard drive – I'm not totally sure if it eve has one (they did sell a model without a hard drive after all), and I seriously don't know how to use a computer that doesn't have a hard drive, but we'll see.

 

[repairedCheese]

As for the hard drive – I'm not totally sure if it eve has one (they did sell a model without a hard drive after all), and I seriously don't know how to use a computer that doesn't have a hard drive, but we'll see.

Honestly, if you don't have a working hard drive, it's a lot more simple than you think. Unless I'm completely misremembering, you should just be able to eject your boot disk and pop in another one, with any apps you want to run. I do believe it will ask you for the boot disk if you try to do anything that needs files off of it, but it's not like these old systems were ever really meant to multitask.

 

[bunnspecial]

On a Classic-hard drive or not hard drive-Cmd+Opt+N+V, and you'll be rewarded with what is probably the fastest boot you will encounter on any Macintosh old or new.

This key combo and "feature" is specific to the Classic.

 

[bobesch]

Honestly, if you don't have a working hard drive, it's a lot more simple than you think. Unless I'm completely misremembering, you should just be able to eject your boot disk and pop in another one, with any apps you want to run. I do believe it will ask you for the boot disk if you try to do anything that needs files off of it, but it's not like these old systems were ever really meant to multitask.

On a Classic-hard drive or not hard drive-Cmd+Opt+N+V, and you'll be rewarded with what is probably the fastest boot you will encounter on any Macintosh old or new.
This key combo and "feature" is specific to the Classic.

You may play with the mini vMac to find out, what system/applications fits onto a floppy and bypass the need of a harddrive.
For just text-input, booting basic system6 from ROM "by holding down command-option-x-o at startup" https://lowendmac.com/1990/mac-classic/ (I assume, that's what @bunnspecial meant too) and popping in a floppy with the desired application(s) will do fine.

Here's my "instant" personal mini vMac configuration, that I use while looking forward to get my own Macintosh Classic home (since it's currently at my sons place 700 miles away from my home...).
The zip-archive/folder includes:

• #1a-c: the mini_vMac, to "power-on" the machine (for ppc/intel-mac and windows)
• #2a-c: 40MB virtual hard-disks to boot either system6, system7.0 or system7.5 (just drag&drop onto the mini_vMac window to insert and boot.)
• A floppy-disk "FloppyDisk 1440K.dmg" to hold the desired applications to be run from floppy (just drag&drop onto the mini_vMac window to insert disk, too). It comes from the "Blanks" download-link from the mini_vMac-Extras page (unfortunately on new intel-macs it's read-only, while on os9 or OSX/PPC you can mount in and throw stuff onto the virtual-floppy for import into the mini_vMac)
• the ROM "vMac.ROM", that just needs to be present for running the mini_vMac emulator
• basic system6 "System Startup" and "System Additions" to boot up the mini_vMac (like #2)
  Some of my #2 systems are unfortunately in German location, but you may install your own flavor of system6 or system7 onto those "drives" by booting with the "System Startup" first, then throwing in a #2 disk plus any virtual system-installation-floppies (*.dsk), that you've downloaded e.g. from Macintoshgarden or the Macintosh_Repository.

Have fun!

PS: here some other links (found here), that helped me to get my floppy-disk-format-confusion sorted out:
LowEndMac: Floppy Disk Compatibility and Incompatibility in the Mac World
LowEndMac: Making Floppies and CDs for Older Macs Using Modern Macs, Windows, and Linux PCs

 

[repairedCheese]

You may play with the mini vMac to find out, what system/applications fits onto a floppy and bypass the need of a harddrive.
For just text-input, booting basic system6 from ROM "by holding down command-option-x-o at startup" https://lowendmac.com/1990/mac-classic/ (I assume, that's what @bunnspecial meant too) and popping in a floppy with the desired application(s) will do fine.

Here's my "instant" personal mini vMac configuration, that I use while looking forward to get my own Macintosh Classic home (since it's currently at my sons place 700 miles away from my home...).
The zip-archive/folder includes:

• #1a-c: the mini_vMac, to "power-on" the machine (for ppc/intel-mac and windows)
• #2a-c: 40MB virtual hard-disks to boot either system6, system7.0 or system7.5 (just drag&drop onto the mini_vMac window to insert and boot.)
• A floppy-disk "FloppyDisk 1440K.dmg" to hold the desired applications to be run from floppy (just drag&drop onto the mini_vMac window to insert disk, too). It comes from the "Blanks" download-link from the mini_vMac-Extras page
• the ROM "vMac.ROM", that just needs to be present for running the mini_vMac emulator
• basic system6 "System Startup" and "System Additions" to boot up the mini_vMac (like #2)
  Some of my #2 systems are unfortunately in German location, but you may install your own flavor of system6 or system7 onto those "drives" by booting with the "System Startup" first, then throwing in a #2 disk plus any virtual system-installation-floppies (*.dsk), that you've downloaded e.g. from Macintoshgarden or the Macintosh_Repository.

Have fun!

PS: here some other links (found here), that helped me to get my floppy-disk-format-confusion sorted out:
LowEndMac: Floppy Disk Compatibility and Incompatibility in the Mac World
LowEndMac: Making Floppies and CDs for Older Macs Using Modern Macs, Windows, and Linux PCs

As cool as your personal configuration is, OS 6 and OS 7 are in German, which might be a little tricky for those of us who don't know German, or who don't have older Mac OS memorized. They also reminded me how rusty I was with such old versions of the Mac OS, there was definitely a time when being in German wouldn't have mattered for me, but I don't think I've really touched anything older than 7.5 in a decade.

Oh my, I let my fingers get the better of me, and didn't read things through. Still, I definitely use to know OS 6 and OS 7 better than I do now, a lot better.